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-   -   Could Expos return to Montreal? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=192837)

BretttheRiderFan Aug 5, 2011 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 5368264)
OK, OK...

Note that there are also (to my knowledge) no IHOPs, Denny's, Perkins, Pottery Barns, Chuck E. Cheese's in Montreal either...

Most of these can't be found in large numbers anywhere in Canada

Again, I don't see what your point is. To say that mindless American (and Canadian, for that matter) franchises and big box stores can't be found in abundance in the Montreal CMA is very false

Again, what this has to do with baseball is beyond me...

BretttheRiderFan Aug 5, 2011 1:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 5368314)
. Except maybe for Bass Pro Shop - although on second thought they might make a killing in Scandinavia!

What, people don't fish in Quebec?

telyou Aug 5, 2011 1:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan (Post 5369308)
Most of these can't be found in large numbers anywhere in Canada

Again, I don't see what your point is. To say that mindless American (and Canadian, for that matter) franchises and big box stores can't be found in abundance in the Montreal CMA is very false

Again, what this has to do with baseball is beyond me...

Brett, this has to do with Montrealers mentality that they are more European then NA and that apparently equates to being better in some sort of way because apparently Europe is better then the rest of the world, even though many of the countries are going bankrupt due to lack of any political will and mismanagement.

But seriously, what is it with Canadians love affair with all things Europe. You guys have an inferiority complex.

Gerrard Aug 5, 2011 1:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan (Post 5369327)
What, people don't fish in Quebec?

No they do, but they do it in a non Americanized, culturally superior and more vibrant way!

BretttheRiderFan Aug 5, 2011 1:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 5368962)
Immigration is not really the determining factor. Quebec and Montreal tend to be very "Euro-philic". A lot of people in Quebec - and I am not talking about immigrants - think that anything that is European (movies, cuisine, literature, fashion, music, sports, etc.) is automatically better than anything North American. There is a lot of this "posing" that goes in Quebec.

Movies: Obviously the fact that France dominates the Francophone movie industry skews those stats, but Quebecers flock to the theatres for the latest Hollywood flick in droves as well. If Britain dominated the English language movie industry, the same would happen in English Canada.

Cuisine: Maybe, but again I'd say Montreal cuisine is certainly more "Canadian" centric than Toronto or Vancouver by a mile

Literature: Again, French is the dominant language, and obviously French literature would be more widespread than English and therefore more European literature sold as a result.

Fashion: I will give you this one

Music: On the English stations, the programming is generally the same as the rest of Canada. On the French stations, obviously French artists would be more prevalent than American

Sports: The two most popular teams in Montreal (Habs and Als) play sports that largely developed in the city of Montreal itself, and soccer is bigger in Toronto and Vancouver than Montreal

Gerrard Aug 5, 2011 1:15 AM

Brett, chill. Acajack is a stealth troll. That's all.

Acajack Aug 5, 2011 1:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerrard (Post 5369338)
Brett, chill. Acajack is a stealth troll. That's all.

Stealth troll? Hmmm... If you go back to the post that provoked all of the reactions, you will see that I used the term ''posing'' and said that people in Quebec were doing this when being Europhilic. Unless my English is a bit off, being called a poser is not usually a compliment in your language, is it not?

Now, let me take care of my friend Brett.

Acajack Aug 5, 2011 1:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan (Post 5369327)
What, people don't fish in Quebec?

If you reread the post, you will see I was referring to most American retail chains being successful elsewhere in pretty much any western country. I wasn't alluding to Bass Pro Shops being the exception and not being potentially successful in Quebec, but rather in most of western Europe (France? Italy?).

Bass Pro Shops would most certainly be very successful in Quebec.

Acajack Aug 5, 2011 1:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by telyou (Post 5369329)
Brett, this has to do with Montrealers mentality that they are more European then NA and that apparently equates to being better in some sort of way because apparently Europe is better then the rest of the world, even though many of the countries are going bankrupt due to lack of any political will and mismanagement.

But seriously, what is it with Canadians love affair with all things Europe. You guys have an inferiority complex.

Merci. Glad to see someone got the point.

Acajack Aug 5, 2011 1:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan (Post 5369308)
Most of these can't be found in large numbers anywhere in Canada

Again, I don't see what your point is. To say that mindless American (and Canadian, for that matter) franchises and big box stores can't be found in abundance in the Montreal CMA is very false

Again, what this has to do with baseball is beyond me...

I was just having a bit of fun, and note also that in the part you edited out that most U.S. retailers would be successful in Quebec if they were to set up shop here.

Acajack Aug 5, 2011 1:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 5369111)
Americans also have a weird attitude about British things and British English. I know lots of people who like the BBC, think they are better than most other news services, and can't articulate why. My guess is that basically it's the accents and the British "feel'". It's common for Americans and Canadians to write stilted things like "amongst" when they are trying to impress.

!).

Sort of like how Biblical characters in movies always have British accents? ;)

Acajack Aug 5, 2011 1:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan (Post 5369337)
Cuisine: Maybe, but again I'd say Montreal cuisine is certainly more "Canadian" centric than Toronto or Vancouver by a mile

Montreal cuisine is more Québécois than anything else in that it tends to be more deeply rooted in its local environment. It also does blend in international trends (giving them a local twist) that you would find present in Toronto and Vancouver, two cities where the international scene tends to totally dominate over anything local. Which approach is better is a matter of personal opinion, I guess.

Acajack Aug 5, 2011 2:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan (Post 5369337)
Sports: The two most popular teams in Montreal (Habs and Als) play sports that largely developed in the city of Montreal itself, and soccer is bigger in Toronto and Vancouver than Montreal

You seem to think that Toronto and Vancouver are bigger soccer cities simply because they got MLS clubs before Montreal.

As far as Toronto is concerned, before Toronto FC came along the Toronto Lynx played in the A-League and the USL and their attendance totally sucked. It was the worst in the league many years (average of 2,000 per game sometimes). Whereas Montreal's attendance was near the top of the league most years (10,000+) and remains pretty good to this day.

Also, I am not sure that Toronto could draw 55,000 to a Concacaf Champions League game for a second-division club like Montreal did a year or so ago.

International friendlies played in Montreal also consistently draw better than those played in Toronto at Rogers Centre. The 2007 U20 World Cup drew extremely well at the Big O but this is not a fair comparison for Toronto as the venue there was the much smaller BMO Field.

Now, I am not saying that Montreal is a BETTER soccer city that Toronto (or Vancouver), but is certainly every bit as good as the other two.

This will become very clear once L'Impact enters the MLS.

Blitz Aug 5, 2011 2:49 AM

When I mentioned the word "European", I wasn't talking about actual immigrants, I was talking about the overall culture. That said, I don't know much about Quebec and I was just throwing it out there.

For example, one of the reasons why baseball is big in Windsor is because of our "American" culture. Going to a Tigers game on a weekend afternoon in summer is a popular family activity.

telyou Aug 5, 2011 4:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 5369367)
Montreal cuisine is more Québécois than anything else in that it tends to be more deeply rooted in its local environment. It also does blend in international trends (giving them a local twist) that you would find present in Toronto and Vancouver, two cities where the international scene tends to totally dominate over anything local. Which approach is better is a matter of personal opinion, I guess.

But why does one have to be better?
Is it that hard for Canadians to acknowledge another city?

And how did a conversation about the expos turn into soccer?

habfanman Aug 5, 2011 7:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.John (Post 5367859)
The truth of the matter is that the vast majority of Montrealers couldn't give a crap about baseball, in fact you would be hard pressed to find a baseball diamond on the island of Montreal,so Montreal lost it's baseball team boo hoo hoo, does that make the city less attractive and vibrant? last time I checked London, Paris, Hong Kong,Moscow,Shanghai, Sydney, Rome are all without baseball teams,PS that shit sport is even more boring live than it is on TV..... I rather watch curling hurry hard hard

There are heaps of baseball diamonds mr.john. Parc Pelican, just down the street from me has 3 and there are kids playing league ball there every weekend. Parc Lalonde, a few blocks the other way also has a diamond. On the Rosemont borough website, 10/55 parks are listed as having baseball diamonds and it's the same for most boroughs. Jarry alone has 9 diamonds.

I don't think a baseball team makes a city vibrant, it's simply not a very vibrant sport. More anti-vibrant. Baseball cities like Detroit, Cleveland, Houston etc. aren't what I would consider as particularly vibrant cities, but if 20,000 people or so would pop down to games that would be OK. The more entertainment options the better. I do think it would be a tough sell however in a city where there are 5 festivals occurring at any given time all summer long, though I'd probably hit up a couple of games on a Monday or Tuesday night.

habfanman Aug 5, 2011 9:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 5369111)
Quote:

I am not sure what exactly is meant by "Europeans", but if you subtract Asians from the populations of the Toronto and Montreal CMAs you are left with a bigger number for Montreal. I believe that Montreal still has the largest population of native-born Canadians. It's not surprising that Toronto doesn't have much of a sense of place.
Montréal gets more European immigrants (23%, as a percentage of total immigration, 2008) than Toronto (13%) or Vancouver (10%). Asia is the major source for Toronto (69%) and Vancouver (79%) but only 31% for Montréal.

Quote:

Many North Americans are Europhiles (UK + continental). Americans get all weird about France because they are bothered by the idea that it might actually be culturally superior (kind of a stupid thing to be worried about but whatever). Americans also have a weird attitude about British things and British English. I know lots of people who like the BBC, think they are better than most other news services, and can't articulate why. My guess is that basically it's the accents and the British "feel'". It's common for Americans and Canadians to write stilted things like "amongst" when they are trying to impress.
I prefer BBC because it seems to be more balanced and objective and they have correspondents everywhere.


Quote:

Last time somebody told me they spoke "Parisian French" it was a guy from the US who had taken some intro type course and argued with me that "u" and "ou" are equivalent (but maybe not their vulgar Canadian pronunciation!).
I can never understand why people insist that Québécois French is somehow not 'real' because it isn't 'Parisian'. You never hear people say that Canadians don't speak 'real' English because it's not 'London' English. Living languages evolve with different vocabularies and pronunciations in different places. People in Marseille don't speak 'Parisian' French either. South Americans don't speak Madrid Spanish but it's still Spanish that they're speaking.


...............

habfanman Aug 5, 2011 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan (Post 5369308)
Most of these can't be found in large numbers anywhere in Canada

Again, I don't see what your point is. To say that mindless American (and Canadian, for that matter) franchises and big box stores can't be found in abundance in the Montreal CMA is very false

Again, what this has to do with baseball is beyond me...

But there are fewer of most franchises in Québec and many don't exist at all, especially outside of Montréal.

You'll find most of the usual big box stores in the suburbs and off island- suburbs are the same everywhere in N.A.- but I've noticed a huge difference in the number of fast food joints and coffee shops, especially outside of downtown and tourist areas. I keep hearing that somewhere 'got this or that chain store or restaurant' that very few people here have ever heard of or care about.

Quick comparisons:

Tim Horton's
TOR: 300+
MTL: 110

Starbucks
TOR: 131
MTL: 28

Taco Bell
TOR: 22
MTL: 3

Wendy's
TOR 28
MTL 5

Burger King
TOR 32
MTL 13

McDonald's are almost impossible to verify but there are plenty, and there seem to be a like number of Subways and Dominos. Pizza Pizza is (thankfully!) almost non-existant.

MolsonExport Aug 5, 2011 12:33 PM

Pizza Pizza is a frisbee emporium. They sell frisbees vaguely resembling pizza, but tasting like frisbees.
Taco Bell sells tortilla shells stuffed with hamster shit.

Montreal certainly has many unique restaurant chains:

LaFleur's
Belle Province
Mike's
Nickels
St. Hubert
Scores
Chez Cora
Tutti Frutti
Pizza Donini (shrunken as of late)
Eggspectation
Valentine's
Dic Anne's
Amir

and the ubiquitously decrepit (but often offering outstanding unhealthy food like poutine) cassecroutes of which there are perhaps a thousand or more.

of course, Quebecois love their McDo.

Acajack Aug 5, 2011 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by telyou (Post 5369484)
But why does one have to be better?
Is it that hard for Canadians to acknowledge another city?

And how did a conversation about the expos turn into soccer?

But when did I say one was better? I actually said the exact opposite, didn't I?


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