Git 'em Sean.

Well the whole point of the Urban Form Code is that its supposed to do away with 'zoning by variance'. It should, theoretically, be so simple and clear to understand and easy to apply that you don't need a zillion variances. Obviously they'll still offer some variances going forward, but its supposed to be reduced.

I hate it
 

I also hate this! I work just down the street from it on VB. With the crap like the Arizona center to my east and something like this on the west it would be the nail in the coffin for VB downtown.

There sure is alot of negative comments. Arizona Center is a crappy development, but at the same time it has the element of offices, retail and restaurants you all have been talking about. What's the problem over there? Unless we have people living downtown, who will shop there? It's not like the shops or restaurants that are there are anything special or unique. It is like ever other cookie cutter strip mall in this country. Hooters and New York Company crap like every mall around. If we are ever going to have a successful downtown, we need jobs and we need decent class A space. There is alot of competition for companies who have expanded or moved here like Google, Microsoft, Go Daddy and the like. They aren't moving to downtown Phx, they are going to places like Tempe and Chandler where they have nicer facilities and restaurants nearby. Our convention business is not that great, even with a nice newly expanded convention center. Part of the problem is there is not much downtown to do or see at night or on the weekends. Alot of businesses close between 3-6pm. Yes, office only structures do create quietness at night, but then again we need to build some momentum to get things going again. It really is too bad the recession happened. DT Phx would like much different today, but reality is reality and I think we should be happy with the development we do have going on downtown. ASU has been a great addition to DT, but this is still goverment funded building. Private enterprise creates the jobs and this will create jobs for two years while it is being built and it will help a very blighted area of DT phx look better and hopefully will give some incentive and momentum for others to develop restaurants and stores around it. There sure isn't anything happening right now over there. This city is far behind compared even to smaller cities like Austin, Nashville or San Antonio. Lets be happy we have developers from outside who are interested in our city. Yes, we need more apartments and condos and they are coming, but at the same time it takes capital and outside investors who have the resources. There sure isn't many who live here investing in our city. With the new buildings, will come more jobs and hopefully more people living downtown and then more restaurants and stores. I was in Cityscape a few months back and one of the stores there said he was struggling to survive. There isn't enough foot traffic right now at night or on the weekends and this isn't the only city who has struggled with this, but at the same time we have a downtown and a midtown that some idiots created in the 60's and 70's through poor planning and we have to deal with this. Our city would have been much better if the concentration of buildings were together. It is part of the problem we uniquely created through poor zoning decisions.

There seems to be alot of tower envy on this board. :) If we can't have a taller building than Chase, we don't want one at all. It's a bit weird, but I guess that is why were are on the skyscraper forum of negativity! :tup:

No one said anything along those lines. Your last two posts are total straw men and rather uninteresting.

No one is saying if its not taller than Chase, we don't want it. I don't think anyone has overly complained about its height at all actually. People are upset because the design is very, very poor. It doesn't meet the Urban Form Code standards. It has 3 blank walls, it has huge setbacks, etc.

Some of your points about what Central Phoenix needs are spot on. But do you know what else this City needs? Excellence. Even if we get 10 new towers in the next few years, it won't matter if they're all poorly designed. No other major City allows developers to build such poorly designed garbage in their Downtown and we shouldn't either.

Its time to demand excellence. We're happy to have new development, but it needs to be quality.

Reguru, the points you make are valid but none of the things you said really have anything to do with huge, unattractive parking garages or huge setbacks. That is the main problem here. I'm sure we'd all like for this to be built, but why does it have to be built in such a way that it doesn't take it's surroundings into account?

...unless of course you're saying we should just take whatever we can get because all we need is more people downtown, and then we can worry about the rest. Would be good if it worked that way but if you build it and you get more workers downtown, but then make the area/streets unattractive and not very walkable, then you're just shooing yourself in the foot. The design of this building just screams "Come, do your thing, and leave". Seems very self contained, as if it doesn't want any interaction with anyone that isn't going to work in the building.

No one is that concerned with height nor has anyone mentioned a new tallest/Chase. I think most people would rather have a well designed mid-rise building that fosters street activity and contributes to the neighborhood over a 21 floor behemoth parking garage with offices on top. Take a look at the Concord Eastridge thread. Even though it's only 7 floors the reaction has been pretty positive.

I think Vicelord called it... I think reguru is (somehow tied to) the developer. Which is fine and great, it just makes sense that all of the sudden he posted the link with the rendering for the first time as his first post, and is defending the project against some of the criticism. And he also talked crap initially about the potential new CityScape Tower, which is this building's direct competition. But, maybe not.

Either way, like everyone is saying, reguru, no one is against the project, and we're thrilled that it is in the pipeline, however, the current design needs some tweaking. We're aren't to the point of "taking what we can get", and I hope the City isn't either. Hopefully they will hold the developers to some design standards (the Urban Form Code). It is in everyone's best interest, except maybe the short term for the developer as it may cost slightly more initially, but long term I think it will be great for the developer.

Reguru, your comments are contradictory. You first pose that our downtown’s poor design is a result of what “some idiots created in the 60’s and 70’s”. Yet in the same post you try to justify that repeating those mistakes is okay because we need to “get some momentum to get things going again”. So which is it; do we keep repeating the same things those “idiots” did and expect different results are stop acting like those “idiots”? You point out that many businesses close during what would be peak business hours yet you fail to connect that it occurs because of Downtown’s lack of walk-ability, which is a direct result of poor design, which is what this design is. You state that we are behind cities like Austin and Nashville, so shouldn’t we imitate what those cities are doing correctly? The most telling though is when you state “hopefully will give some incentive and momentum for others to develop restaurants and stores around it.” One question members on this forum are asking is not why this isn’t the new tallest – as you hinted – but instead; why around it and not part of it? Why not make the design pedestrian friendly instead of expecting others to do it for this project?

oh my. not a big fan of the design... looks like a soviet era tower covered in glass. the layout on the block, as everyone else has said, is atrocious. say no Phoenix!

The design is not that bad, but everyone has different tastes. I like the overall tower but I needs to have 0 setback and needs to only take up half the block so the other half could be developed some day.

The ground floor should have some space for retail as well, if not the main offer tower than at least the parking garage.

While I am not the developer for the second time, did we ever stop to consider the developer maybe has plans for the grass area facing vb? Perhaps a tower with condominiums along with retail and restaurants on the ground floor level? Give people a chance. First things first. There is 400k sq feet of office space to rent first. Then we can see what else is to come. Perhaps then the ugly parking structure you are all worried about will disappear behind the condo tower? Golub is smarter and more experienced at this then you all give him credit for. I am sure he will utilize every square inch of land.

You've. Confirmed that you at least know the developer or work in the project in some facet or another.

The building itself is not that bad but it's not that great either. It's just four boxes slapped together with one having a slant jutting out the top. The rest is just real bad design and I just hope this is an early rendering and will change as time progresses. There's a lot of potential in Phoenix and I would love to see a developer create something excellent.

Nope, never. Could care less if it evens get built and it probably wont, but then again it would help modernize an area that looks like Poland after WW2.

Oh so then we'd only have blank walls on 2 blocks (2nd ave and 3rd ave)- yippie!

I have to say, I actually like the look of the building. Is it perfect, no, but I think the scale is right for that part of downtown. I liked the grass aspect and that curved landscaping on top of the garage. I also like the juxtaposition with the old church steeple next door.

this pic really shows how the parking lot takes up the whole block. i like the building looks but agreed with others, it is pushed back too far. phx needs more density than anything else. split the block up for another building

If they're going to do above ground parking then it needs to be like 44 Monroe or the Freeport McMoran building. In those buildings the parking structures blend in with the facades of the buildings and add architectural elements. This building looks like its being eaten by the massive parking garage.