NEW YORK | 1 Manhattan West | 995 FT | 71 FLOORS
 

MANHATTAN WEST

Two towers:
66 stories - 3.4 msf - 1,216 ft
60 stories - 1.9 msf - 935 ft

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/93262529/large.jpg


__________________________________________


NY Post

FOUR TOWERS NEAR FARLEY
BROOKFIELD STILL NEEDS ANCHOR

http://www.nypost.com/img/cols/loisweiss_btb.jpg

March 14, 2007

BROOKFIELD Properties is readying plans for four towers totaling 4.7 million feet at the rear of the Farley Post Office on the west side of Ninth Avenue between 31st and 33rd streets.

"It will be an awesome location," Ric Clark, Brookfield's CEO, said at the Young Men's and Women's Real Estate Association luncheon yesterday.

Clark said plans call for the east end of the plot to host two office towers sharing 4 million square feet while the west end will have two residential towers totaling 700,000 feet.

They hope to kick off marketing the northern office tower of 1.6 million square feet within the next few weeks, for delivery in late 2010. That process will begin with the sharing of new renderings now being prepared by Skidmore Owings Merrill.

While there's no anchor tenant yet, Clark said Brookfield is in discussions with "all the usual suspects" and expects rents to start in the $80 range.

Would they break ground without an anchor tenant? "Never say never," Clark said. "But we would need to know the Moynihan Train Station was going forward."

With my good math skills, I put the towers at this size :)

1 tower at........... 2.4 msf
1 tower at........... 1.6 msf

2 residential towers totalling......700,000 sf

Not bad. And we don't even have the plans for the MSG site, nor the 2.5 msf tower at the Hotel Penn site. Things are really looking up...

Brookfield's site in relation to other major developments...


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/69609970/original.jpg


Fronting 9th Ave...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/70157743/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/70157714/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/70157760/large.jpg

2.4 msf would be a pretty tall building. I hope these buildings get built soon.

:previous: I hope so. It's a small plot for 4 buildings, so there has to be one or two of these towers that are 600ft+.

^^ Maybe for the residential. 2.4 msf is most likely around 1000ft. BoA is 2.2 msf.

But first, they have to build a platform over the railroad tracks. That takes a long time.

Great news. This will really help to link the Midtown skyline with the upcoming Westside skyline.

And don't forget that BoA has a massive base. 2.4 msf could easily translate into extraordinary height indeed on a smaller lot...

I hope the 2.4 msf tower is 300 meters +, I'm sick of Midtown and the city picking scrapers in the range of 250 meters. NO MORE PEOPLE, LET'S MOVE IT UP A COUPLE OF NOTCHES!:D

Apparently not that long...

I know Brookfield has had plans and agreements in place with the transit agencies regarding building the platform. Even so, I have trouble imagining more than two towers fitting on that site. But residential towers don't have to be very large, and will likely have much smaller footprints.


The Moynihan project is moving forward, we should be getting plans on that next month. It's just astonishing the amount of commercial space being built on basically two blocks. I guess the developers in Midtown want to strike back early and hard at the WTC, something I don't think happend the first time around. But with the office market as hot as it is in Manhattan, there's not a better time to do it.

A look at NY's largest new office developments (doesn't include nearly full towers like Times, BofA, and Goldman Sachs)

Downtown
Freedom Tower............2.6 msf office tower
Tower 2 .....................2.5 msf office tower
Tower 3 .....................2.5 msf office tower
Tower 4 .....................2.8 msf office tower
Tower 5 .....................1.8 msf office tower

Midtown
Hotel Penn site ............2.5 msf office tower
MSG site.....................6 msf - 2 office towers
Brookfield tower 1 ........1.6 msf office tower
Brookfield tower 2 ........2.5 msf office tower

This and the MSG site are going to make for an impressive cluster!

Put this visual together of the new 33rd-31st St cluster. You get Brookfield's
4.7 msf development, Related's 6 msf MSG development, and Vornado's 2.5 msf Hotel Penn tower.

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/75818321/original.jpg


But Brookfields site is somewhat small, considering they want to build four towers.
Even with smaller residential towers, the sites for the 2 office towers won't
be large enough to build large trading floor bases like the ones found at BofA,
the new WTC, and even the Hotel Penn tower. The tallest tower here has
the potential to be taller than the tower at the Hotel Penn site.

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/75818270/large.jpg

Actually the base can be big enough if they do the "Bloomberg or Time Warner Center" thing where two towers share a large common base.

That could only happen if you build both towers at the same time, the way Time Warner Center was built.

That won't happen here.

I believe the Hudson Yards zoning calls for pedestrian circulation (either indoor or inclosed) between the towers, where there is no 32nd street (the same thing called for at the MSG site).

But either way, the site is too small. You would need to extend the base all the way to the western edge of the site, where apparently they want to build two residential towers. I'm constantly going through the site (entering and leaving Penn Station) and at best it's suited for two towers. But if they're looking to go up, they can cram all the space they want to in there (zoning calls for 4.7 msf).

So in a few years, the ESB could actually be obscured behind several taller towers... quite a change for New York that would be. Probably the most significant since the Chrysler and ESB were constructed, actually.

You're forgetting the original WTC, it was pretty big news when it was built...

I believe hes referring to Midtown only. The WTC never obscured the views of either.

Man, next time I come in by way of Penn Station I'm gonna make sure I take pictures of all the surrounding blocks, before they all get redeveloped with 600+ footers and the place becomes unrecognizeable from what I (will) remember as a youngster. Pretty soon the Nelson Building will look like a midget after years of dominating its territory.. neato!

That would be quite a change. For so many years, the Empire State has dominated Midtown. And nothing in the immediate area even comes close. It was the world's tallest for about 4 decades, and is the only former tallest to hold the title of a city's tallest on two seperate occasions.

Yet, the day of the ESB's dominance may be coming to a close. Midtown developers want to offer the same type of space being offered Downtown at the new WTC. It's no coincidence that most of these towers have the same target dates of completion (and are all actively seeking tenants, something done years ahead in New York).

What surprises me is that of all the new towers in the area, I thought the Hotel Penn tower would sprout first (they're shooting for 2011). Who knew Brookfield would trump both Vornado's tower and Silverstein's WTC towers?

True, but I mean right now when you drive down the Westside Hwy the ESB stands out like a gigantic exclamation mark, in magnificent isolation from other tall buildings. But if all the different projects - the Brookfield and the Vornado projects, the tower at the Hotel Penn site - get underway and reach their potential heights, the ESB will be literally obscured from sight, save perhaps for its spire, from that viewpoint. THAT would make for a radical change to the "look" of NYC, at least from that side of Manhattan...

And the ESB continued to dominate downtown even after the Twins were put up.

It is a stunning testament to the true greatness of the ESB that it was maintained its standout status in the most skyscraper-intense city in the world right thru the 1st decade of the 21st century, nearly 70 years since it was put up.

But it also underscores what an exciting time in NYC's building history this particular era has suddenly - against all expectations, really, when you consider what was being said after 9/11 - turned into.:banana:

And it's not just the mega-projects like Vornado's plan for an AOL-type development around MSG, only bigger, either... 8th Avenue is almost casually being transformed into another Avenue of the Americas before our eyes, and Manhattan is overflowing its physical boundaries into Jersey City and Queen. Even Brooklyn will soon have a skyline worthy of many another major city downtown area!

It really depends on the angle. Because those towers are virtually "in line" with the ESB, they really would only block it in the 33rd-30th St range. You would actually see all of the towers from most other places. But we'll just have to wait and see the bulk and heights of the towers.

Looking at the area in question, it would appear that the Jersey side views of the ESB would be most effected, and that would really be only from right across the river and a little south of there. Middlesex county, NJ/Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx views should still be able to see the ESB no matter what the height of the buildings constructed. Although, it just won't stand out as much.

As has been mentioned, the two office towers will have to be quite thin to fit on that site + leave space for 2 residential towers. Tall thin office towers of 1.6 and 2.4 msf? I can dig that.

Yep!...:tup:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/75818270/large.jpg

That's true. All of the new towers would be south of the ESB...

http://www.grandscapes.biz/images/hu...ail3_r1_c2.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/75818321/original.jpg

Hopefully, the overall effect will be of the classic lower Manhattan skyline from the 1930's, of ever steeper towers culminating with the ESB the tallest point in the middle. Or perhaps, with the ESB as a step towards an even taller tower?

Anyone worried that SOM NY will not be able to pull it off?

Remember this is SOM New York (David Childs), not SOM Chicago.

How soon can we expect renderings?

The ESB won't be in the middle, it would be the farthest to the east. The tallest towers should go on the MSG site as far as the skyline is concerned. But who knows...

Possibly soon...

That's the first Brookfield tower. Hopefully those renderings will be made public. Word is that Related/Vornado's MSG proposal will be revealed sometime in April. Maybe they'll unveil plans for the Hotel Penn tower as well.

How tall do you think these two bad boys will be NYguy? I think the 2.4 msf tower will be around 350 meters.

Don't know. The first tower could go anywhere from 750 to 850 ft. The second, perhaps 900 to 1200 ft. Possibly more. A lot depends on the massing.

This project has a lot of potential. I look foward to seeing how it progressed.

Certainly, and opportunity like this doesn't come along very often!

Nope. And certainly not within a block of an even larger, similar development. Good times...

Check the MSG thread for an interview with Childs on his other work in the area...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=119637&page=5

APRIL 8, 2007

Quick glimpse of the rails to be covered by this huge development...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/76895778/medium.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/76895793/medium.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/76895778/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/76895793/large.jpg

More specifics, pages 57-58
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/hyar...nformation.pdf

Site 729A
Northwest corner of Ninth Avenue and West 31st Street
Ownership: Privately owned
Assemblage required: No

Design Controls: sidewalk widening, ground floor retail and transparency,
street trees, required street wall, required publicly-accessible through-block
passageway
Parking Requirement: approximately 822 spaces

Height Limits: None
Total Lot Area (SF): 128,600
Max. FAR: 19.0
Max. ZFA (SF): 2,443,400

Site Attributes: Convenient access to future mass transit and Midtown;
accommodates large floor plate commercial uses

Site Challenges: Construction of a platform over existing and proposed
below-grade railroad tracks and right-of-way; Below-grade parking
requirement


Site 729B
Southeast corner of Ninth Avenue and West 33rd Street
Ownership: Privately owned
Assemblage required: No

Design Controls: sidewalk widening, ground floor retail and transparency,
street trees, required street wall, required public plaza
Parking Requirement: approximately 516 spaces

Height Limits: None
Total Lot Area (SF): 80,729
Max. FAR: 19.0
Max. ZFA (SF): 1,533,851

Site Attributes: Convenient access to future mass transit and Midtown;
accommodates large floor plate commercial uses

Site Challenges: Construction of a platform over below-grade railroad
tracks and right-of-way; Site geometry; Below-grade parking requirement

Another look at the open site...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/77418257/original.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/77418255/original.jpg

Quote from an article in the Observer
http://observer.com/2007/behold-mini-city-rises

2.5 and 1.5 million sq feet. The 2.5 mil is near gauranteed to top 1000 feet. Between this and the going ons of MSG a block away (1360FT, 1200FT), im on overload. This is a skyscraper lovers wet dream contained in 3 continous blocks

And its only a couple of blocks from that planned tower by Sherwood...(and who knows what over the railyards)

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/77190989/medium.jpg
(early Sherwood rendering)

It goes on and on...

how many new supertalls are now plannend for midtown?

With so many developments underway and in planning stages, its hard to say for sure. But I would put 2 at the MSG site, with maybe one at the Brookfield site, and 1 at the Hotel Penn Site. More on the west side of Manhattan.

Its still too soon to know, but right now it looks like a minimum of 5 1000ft +
Brookfield 1
Sherwood
Penn 1 and 2
Hotel Penn

but mostly speculation, very educated guesses and leaked renders

Yeah, the MSG site looks to be the only sure thing as of now. But we are only a few months (possibly weeks) away from confirmation on the others...

Wow... 8-9 new supertalls by 2012?
 

Combine 5-6 new supertalls in Midtown with WTC's 3 new supertalls (4 almost), you have 8-9 supertalls perhaps by 2013.... incredible!

Now, we'll have to see if the designs for Mid-town are as good as the WTC. With Foster, good chance except we'll be getting two "flat" tops instead of spires for Penn 1 & 2. For Pelli, better chance of getting a lighted crown similar to BofA Charlotte or Intl Finance 2 in Hong Kong. For KPF, hopefully they design like they do for Shanghai & Seoul, Korea with a tapered crown and spire and not a flat top like the Finance Center currently going up in Hong Kong.

Interesting... the possibilities. Overall, the designs by any of the architects should be modern day versions of the ESB, soaring, inspiring towers with lighted crowns & spires... NOT a SOM bland box.;)

I don't think modern day versions of the ESB work well on either of these sites. The design needs to be something that stands out, not another ESB clone. Further over on the west side, maybe. But for MSG, Brookfield, and Penn, too close to the real thing. Maybe one spire out of the bunch.

wow :eek:

thank you very much for the info

btw. how many of these tower are acutally Approved?