SFU/Burnaby Mtn Gondola | Proposed
 

I know this idea has been thrown around a lot on here but I'm assuming this is news for most. Surprisingly I don't think this has been posted anywhere yet but if it has let me know. Thanks to Yellow Fever at SSC for first posting this:

yah... this is old news.... but it has gone public because Harry Bloy opened his mouth in the BC Leg today... it was underwraps for almost a year... or i became first aware of it a year ago but it was in a closed-door meeting... so it could have been a bit longer....

personally, i think its desperation to get re-elected. but the timeframe is YEARS AWAY! i am not going to say when... but it wont be happening anytime soon... or atleast it is not planned to happen anytime soon

Construction timeframe after funding is secured and plans are made is approx a year

AHA Funny.

Mr.X's dreams are realized now =)

wait till construction starts!

I am sure the university has "OTHER" priorities that are higher on funding... #1 would be restoring the funding cuts that have been made over the past couple years... there was a rally held last wednesday at SFU ( it was on the Front page of 24 last thursday)

It's called long term planning, something you and the NDP obviously don't know about.

Offtopic: Oh burn!

Ontopic: What are the capacities of these kind of arrangements anyways?

IF we dont know about it then who built the Skytrain extension to the bottom of SFU?

IF we dont know about it then who built the HOV lanes on Highway 1?

IF we dont know about it then why didnt we cut "to the bone" funding to post secondary institutes? ( because reducing 80 faculty this year, reducing course offering and course choices will help in planning for the long term)

i could go on...

but for long term planning, there are tonnes of projects that are higher priority for SFU and UniverCity and one of them is to actually build the entire UniverCity project, expand the size of SFU, restrofit existing buildings that are 40 years old and in desperate need of repair etc...

this is not long term planning: this is pre-election rhetoric!

There goes all of SFU's snow days.:haha:


The Whistler Peak to Peak has a capacity of 2,050 passengers per hour per direction.

I don't see how this is pre-election rhetoric if there isn't a damn announcement yet. You can call that then. The truth is, something like this was always planned or envisioned. Whether the election has anything to motivate this being accelerated, it still benefits the region, and the commuters that will be using the gondola regardless.

By the way, there goes the warning, next is suspension. I shouldn't have added fuel to the fire.

I doubt you'll see that capacity for this =P

Hey... they read our idea.

Ravman, why must everything turn political for you? Stop it, it's annoying.

this is neat, but it still seems to me that a funicular is a much more sensible idea, though the views wouldn't be as nice.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Peak2Peak gondola around 4.1km long with 4 towers and cost around $55 million? How does a 2.65km gondola, albeit with 5 towers, cost $68.9 million? In Burnaby no less. Seems a little odd to me. Oh, and I guessing the construction was a little more difficult in Whistler what with 1000 foot drops, snow, and all the rest of it.

Having moved to quebec 5 years ago, I have some experience with funiculars. They are better for short hauls with more serious grade, like 45 % . For a longer distance like that , the grade would vary, it would not make as much sense. Also, I think there is some concern over the environmental impact of the footprint of 5 towers, a funicular would cut a large swath of forest for the track.

http://static.travelmuse.com/docs/ar...laire-full.jpg

Also, this thing had a cable snap or something a few years ago, injured a bunch of people. Not good.

Portland has a gondola too
 

Portland has a gondola to a mountain top university that is integrated into it's transit system to.

Here is a link to a very good wikipedia article about it

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._and_route.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ndTramCar3.jpg

The price seems in line with our proposal, it got done for $57 million in a P3. Operating costs were projected to be under $1 million but is over $1.7 million / year

in order to do any project in this country, one always have to worry about greenhouse gases. there are probably cheaper and more efficient ways to help the environment than building a gondola.

that being said... its still pretty cool

Rumour has it there will be some sort of electoral process occurring this spring.

In the meantime, does every single topic have to be a campaign opportunity?

I can be as interested in elections as anyone and I realize the government plays a part in many ways - direct and indirect - on development in Vancouver. However, please consider the rest of us who like to read about pretty buildings, new parks, and big gondolas ; ) for a few minutes without election plugs, or attacks? (rather ineffective ones, I might add).

Thanks ; ).

Humm....can't wait to hear more about the plans

Probably costs associated with procuring rights of way, expropriation, etc. Obviously more expensive in a city than on a mountain. Also, inflation - Peak 2 Peak was probably budgeted 5 years ago, if not more.
And yes, as somebody mentioned, there could be P3 costs to consider.

They could shorten the distance and cost by linking to a future Evergreen Burquitlam skytrian station.

Well if they build it, which they should, then they should run it from Lake city station. Its only 350m longer by my counts but doesnt go over the top of any residential housing. It goes over mostly industrial buildings, AND straight over the storage tanks therefore minimizing environmental impacts and could very well be cheaper. More importantly it lines up absolutely perfectly with a landing on the Belcarra penisula at the old thermal station. Its only a extra 2.5km. You can run it to the bottom of the hill where you can link it up with the Hastings express bus that can bypass SFU and head to Port Moody and the Evergreen line. Then it just crosses the water and ends at a park and ride and a bus loop. The old thermal plant lands are planed to be redeveloped and this would be a pretty nice catalist, not to mention the owners could become partners and help pay for a part of it. In any case the time savings that it would lead to for the people in the area would be huge so I could see it attracting alot of new riders, there are thousands of people living there already in Anmore, Belcarra and northern Port Moody. If it would have the same specs as the Peak to Peak in Whistler than it would take 8min from Lake City to SFU, 3min from SFU to Barnett highway and then 3min from Barnett highway to Belcara. That means 14min from Belcara to Lake City skytrain, add to that 30sec per station and its a nice even 15min trip. Peak to Peak has a frequency of 49seconds.
Just build the dam thing to Belcara and be proactive, it be great and I cant see it not being feasible.



here is a map...
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m...g?t=1234290094

where it says opened up roads there already are roads but their part of the old thermal plant and would probably need a bit of widening and fixing up.

Also keep in mind again that it goes over only industrial land, no residential, this should cut costs and minimize issues.
If the Production way proposal costs 70mill than this entire thing could be under 140mill and I wouldn't be surprised if you could get the entire cost back from developers in the Belcara area, most notably the owner of the old Thermal plant(forget the name).

Hmm... now THAT's an interesting idea. What's the stop on Barnet highway for? I would assume, would link up to a Future WCE station or Rapid Bus? There's not much potential there for much more than an transfer station.

i was thinking a transfer station for a rerouted Hastings B-Line and maybe a WCE train.
on the other hand if you skip it than it makes the entire extension probably much cheaper and easier to implement.
the area around the area is all parkland.

the Belcara area that is part of Port Moody, like the old Thermal station has enormous potential though. If Translik somehow ever managed to buy up alot of that land for cheap than it could stand to make a killing as that area is surrounded by beauty and NO nimbys...the area is nestled between hills and forests(seperated from all other developments) with nothing across from the inlet and the closes people living in different municipalities.
Having said that any significant development would require a commitment to a vehicle bridge otherwise Port Moody wouldent allow anything significant, and for good reasons. The nice thing about this is that a bridge would connect up with Barnet, and with a short and already looked in to connection to Gaglardi and the number 1. At some point in the very long term any bridge would likely also conect a new Squamish Vancouver route via Indian arm. Basically that area if planed out right has tremendous potential, and the ball can be set rolling with this Aerial Tram.

no more snow day excuses for SFU

The SFU Gondola is an awesome idea. Construction impact will be minimal for the environment and operations wise replacing buses with electric gondola is also a bonus. Plus its fast. The only drawback may be reliability - these systems are kind of single point of failure systems, at least based on what I've seen skiing. We need more out of box transportation ideas for the region and gondolas especially with our geography should be considered more often.

I assume you mean 45 degrees, which is a 100% grade (rise over run, 1/1). 45% is about 24 degrees (which is steep too).

WBC, good point about the source of failure, but there are other transit systems in Vancouver which are similar, like the Sea Bus, or perhaps more dire, the Grouse Mountain gondola (though, they have a back-up system).

In wonder how they intend to deal with the storage tanks. That could be seen as either a wonderful right-of-way (of sorts), or as a major liability.

Humm. I can't see how it can meet the demand or how it will be better than a bus. But I like it, fo course.

Funchal, Maderia - Gondola over the rooftops of the city.

http://members.shaw.ca/david.marlor/gondola.jpg

for me that sort of thing is bottom-line/non-negotiable. transit users lose a lot of time transferring from one thing to another (whether bus->bus or skytrain->bus or whatever) so I would say the gondola station would have to be inside the lake city way or production way skytrain stops. maybe another gondola could be added on the evergreen line also sooner or later also.

Peak to Peak Gondola from Whistler 365 on Global TV BC:
http://canwest.a.mms.mavenapps.net/m...Object=3555919

Is it just me... or did we never have a Peak to Peak thread... I'm probably dreaming of things.

Now according to that video, the cost of the Peak to Peak is $52 million... ummm why is this $68.2 million?

http://www.bclocalnews.com/greater_v.../39339129.html ( there is a picture on the site)

Burnaby NewsLeader
Gondola planned for Burnaby Mountain
BE0212-BurnabyMtnGondola.jpg
The proposed gondola route would be from Production Way SkyTrain station near Gagliardi and Lougheed Highway to the transit loop at SFU campus.

By Grant Granger - Burnaby NewsLeader

Published: February 10, 2009 4:00 PM
Updated: February 10, 2009 4:25 PM

0 Comments

About 18 months ago Gordon Harris was watching the news and the proverbial light went on above his head.

The Simon Fraser University Community Trust CEO had his interest piqued by a story about the Peak 2 Peak gondola system between Whistler and Blackcomb mountains.

"Why couldn't you do that on Burnaby Mountain," he asked.

He thought it would be a terrific way to relieve the congestion on buses between the Production Way SkyTrain station and SFU's transit loop beside UniverCity, the development the SFU Trust is in charge of.

No one could tell him why not, so the trust commissioned engineer Bryce Tupper, who worked with Whistler owners Intrawest on Peak 2 Peak, to do a feasibility assessment.

That study was encouraging enough for him to talk to potential stakeholders such as TransLink. On Monday, the organization released its vision.

The trust's concept is for a $68.9 million project that would require five towers with the gondolas running above the trees. Harris said a gondola transit system would improve reliability and travel times, as well as reduce the greenhouse gas emissions produced by the diesel buses that run up and down the mountain.

Harris said travel time would be about six minutes, a big time saving since in ideal conditions it takes 14 minutes for buses to make the trip. It would also be able to operate during winter days when it's too dangerous for buses to travel to SFU.

Harris said the capital cost is also feasible since eventually TransLink will need to spend $50 million, he estimates, just on replacing the buses needed to go up to SFU, and the operating cost for the system would be $3.14 million annually compared to the $6 million it costs to run the buses.

Harris believes the system could be up and running by late 2011.

Because a section of the proposed gondola route would travel over the Burnaby Mountain Conservation Area, community consultation will be needed. Harris, however, said it should have minimal environmental impact.


Map from SFU Community Trust of the preferred route

The conservation area was sold back to the city by SFU in 1995. Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan said he would have to investigate the impact of the towers but thinks that can be accommodated. He also loves the outside-the-lines thinking by Harris.

"It's a pretty creative idea. I'm certainly not dismissing it. I'm not adopting it at this point because I don't have enough information," said Corrigan. "It's an exciting alternative to busing up the hill.

"Like any good idea it will have to stand the test of scrutiny."

Harris said he's keen to sit down with TransLink to see if it can be done.

"I would like to see this integrated with the TransLink fare system," Harris said. "So far this is just an idea and there's a lot of work to be done between just an idea and a gondola."

TransLink hasn't even begun to take a look at the idea, said spokeswoman Judy Rudin, and would need more information. Gondola systems, she pointed out, are generally considered outside TransLink's purview.

Burquitlam MLA Harry Bloy initially had second thoughts about it, but he likes the possible environmental and economic advantages. He has spoken to Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon three times about it.

"He's interested in the concept," said Bloy, who plans to work with all levels of government to promote it.

"It's unique and outside the box."



Project Fast Facts

• During peak hours buses depart every 90 seconds between Production Way SkyTrain station and SFU; Gondolas can leave as quickly as every 15 seconds.

• In ideal conditions it takes buses 14 minutes to get to SFU; the gondola will take six.

• Two-thirds of SFU students and use transit to get to the university and 40 per cent of UniverCity residents do as well.

• It is expected the 19,000 who currently travel to SFU daily will increase to 37,500 by 2030

• On approximately 10 days each year, bus service to SFU is either severely hampered or cancelled due to weather conditions, impacting as many as 20,000 rider trips for each day of impacted service.

• Loading and unloading of the Burnaby Mountain gondola would be universally accessible due to the very low speeds in the terminal buildings and a level threshold with no step, and gondola cabins would be outfitted with flip seating to accommodate wheelchairs, strollers and bikes.

i thought that land was already all bought up by a developer planning something like 45,000 homes ??

that is sooooooo cool. here's that map from the article
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ZjTgr2lzXzg/SZ...oute%20Map.jpg

I wonder how many people would take it just for the view

^^^ if they do they better make it easier to use than the one in Portland

tried to use that one but they only take credit cards or exact change and there was nowhere to get change from in the area its located

lol, the peak2peak topic is in the B.C. forum.....unless we wanna declare Whistler an extension of Metro Vancouver?:tup:

Yeah I was being stupid.

just last month when it was foggy down here, it was SUNNY up there and it was beautiful!

As an SFU student I am thrilled about this possibility!

I have been wondering what they mean about "two" bus routes being replaced by this gondola. The 145 is obvious, but what is the other one? The 144 which travels between Sperling and SFU via Duthie/Hastings? I dont think it would be the 143 either, since afaik it is supposed to be integrated into the Evergreen Line at Como Lake and Clarke.

Just don't build it like the one in Hong Kong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngong_Ping_360#Incidents

^ Hong Kong used bi-cables, Peak2Peak uses tri-cables.....i'm assuming the more, the safer. :p

My guess is the 143.
Its route is mostly served by other buses on Como Lake Road. It's primarily a way to connect Coquitlam Centre with SFU. It does that in about 30 minutes.

When the EG line starts, One option students will have will be to switch to the much faster train, and transfer at University Station. From Coquitlam to Lougheed will be 13 minutes. Total 15 minutes to Production-Way.

Yes, factor in the slog up the hill (15 minutes) and the total time will probably be "about" the same when you add in the transfer, but I think most will prefer the comfort of the train... along with the frequency and predictability.

There may still be a need for a bus along Como Lake, but if there were a Gondola, they would probably end up having to transfer. That's just a thought, and it would depend on demand, were such a Gondola constructed.

The EG will definitely take people away from the 143, though, that's for sure.

They could also mean the 144, but that bus is the only bus that serves Duthie, along with quite a few destinations in central Burnaby.

Ya the one in Portland is great, except I didn't like how the fares weren't integrated with their overall system. In that situation, again, it wasn't the transit authority building it, but the university.

I sincerely hope that separate entities like the SFU Community Trust or the COV are able to fund and build their own mini transit systems like the gondola or streetcar - and then have TransLink operate the system with proper fare integration.

I don't get what's up with the TransLink lady. "Oh, we don't get involved in gondolas". Well that's because we don't currently have any in the system!

Remember the CP and Air Canada gondolas at Expo 86?

http://www.greatervancouverparks.com...OOKBASIC01.jpg

:previous:

omg. i had totally forgotten. thanks

Another pic from the Canadian Encyclopedia:

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c...ia/1842_21.JPG

wow... i was "non-existant" ( i dont know how else to put it... preborn?) then but i can only imagine if it were here today.... it would have rocked if they kept it....

So bus capacity (articulated) is about 120 people every 90 seconds, or 4,800 people per hour.

Gondola, like Whistler, capacity is 22 people every 15 seconds, or 5,280

So the Gondola could theoretically carry more passengers than the current buses.

I wonder if you could fit more in the transit gondola as they dont need to be designed for people with skis and boards or if that is the maximum weight the cars can hold.

I'm pretty sure the capacity of the Peak2Peak cabins is 28, but the frequency is every 49 seconds, not 15. Of course, an SFU gondola could have more cabins to achieve the higher numbers. Probably was considered and that's a contributing factor as to why the price tag is higher than the Peak2Peak. Didn't really think of that until now. Whoops.

^ Peak2Peak's capacity is 2,002 passengers per hour per direction. With a 15-sec frequency, using more cabins supported by more towers, that would double an SFU gondola's capacity to more than 4,000 pphpd.

Sounds like your thinking about Burke Mountain in Poco.

What im pointing at is NW Port Moody, Imperial Oil holds 270 hectares of develop able property up there. Infact its among the largest if not the largest chunks of undeveloped land in the region. A good portion of the land housed a oil refinery until 1995 when it shut down. there is also a thermal power plant there still running as far as i know but its years are numbered(im dont think it even runs at capacity anymore and the GVRD plans to fully shut it).

Anyways the problem with the area is connections to the rest of the region, Anmore is backwards and they wont allow and road expansion through their town and Port Moody has one road connection and thats Ioco road which is congested and virtually impossible to expand. This means Port Moody isnt allowing any significant and high density developments there.

Now if you build the gondola all the way there create a solid plan for a new bridge to the area at some point then you could significantly upzone the land and probably take a nice chunk for yourself as payment for the tram connection and the eventual bridge.

Right now from what I understand Northern Port Moody has plans for a additional 10,000 people, with this just the Imperial Oil lands could hold 50,000+ people easily.

Here is a old Vancouver Sun article