Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?
 

Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

surprised this wasnt posted yet....

Down with cars! Except the big polluting trucks that deliver my MacBook to the Apple Store, and coffee beans to the Starbucks.

I really don't have any other opinion on this :P But, any time there's a chance to illogically bash cars...

http://www.psychologyafrica.com/wp-c...09/05/sigh.jpg

Honestyl?

They are essentially the only good option downtown for anyone driving a commercial vehicle. Also, my favorite part of downtown is where the stadiums, the skytrain and the viaducts meet, it is the only spot in our region where one can find a true "urban" beauty. In that one spot it feels so busy, two levels of roads (one serving local, one serving regional), trains, pedestrians, stadiums, towers, LED signs, it great! In fact, such a feature can force developers to be more creative in their designs, creating far more enticing neighborhoods than Yale Town, it also gives a little bit of shove to actually build something besides condos near the ducts. The skate park is another example of a true urban vibe not found elsewhere in this city. There is no reason why night market grounds, more park space or even a multi-story parking garage for the stadiums can not be built under these viaducts! How about even creating a funky urban art gallery? Also, is it not a prime spot to place city work utilities?

Honestly, I don't want every corner of this city to be a Yaletown for developers to ching ching on.

I am probably the minority in this case, but oh well, I can always go back to Asia where one can find elevated highways and train structures that are so well implemented into the urban fabric, that they themselves become an attraction.

Again, I like them, because they add just a little bit or urban variety in a city that while amazing, can become somewhat repetative.

Ya, this treehugger doesn't see the big picture. Those routes are pretty busy right now.. where would the traffic go? It won't disappear. :koko:

Although the Dunsmuir viaduct is a little awkward with the entrance off Main, it still takes traffic away from Pacific Blvd.

It does present some interesting challenges for the city's NEFC plan, but just makes it more interesting IMHO.

Helium powered personal balloons. :P

Paradigm4 had this idea earlier but this isn't as easy as it sounds. There is quite a bit of change in height (totally the wrong word, but I can't figure out the word I'm looking for). The urban fabric is built around the viaducts: developments like Spectrum have designed their streets around the viaducts. It's better to further design buildings around the viaducts, making them more like streets, rather than tearing them apart.

I think they should stay too. At least for now. It is one of the most effective ways to get rush hour into downtown, and if it wasn't for the size and speed of the viaduct, rush hour traffic heading out of town would clog streets in the downtown.

Just like how the Granville bridge keeps traffic moving on Howe, the Viaduct keeps it moving on Georgia. Losing the Dunsmuir Viaduct might not have much of an effect (Except increase volume on Expo 3 fold) but I think losing the Georgia Vaiduct would be akin to making the Lions Gate Bridge a single lane out of downtown 24 hours a day. Traffic on Georgia would be so bad it would block the flow South towards the bridges.

People complain about traffic downtown, but I think when all the lanes are open without lazy construction closing them, traffic flows into and out of downtown really well to the east.

If there is a problem with the viaducts, it's not the viaducts themselves, but the intersections on Main street. A single left turn lane from Main onto Terminal just isn't enough. The Viaduct needs to go someplace better, not a freeway, but something better than Prior street. I think if they built the Malkin overpass and build a very elegant intersection at Clarke, it would really help the situation.

On top of it, I don't think much space could be reclaimed if you tear them down. You could only reclaim about a 2 blocks worth. That would be what, 3 buildings for the wealthy to move into? Making the commute for the working class worse is a high price to pay so a few hundred can get luxury condos.

I think the parking lot between Abbott and Carrall could be put to good use even with the Viaducts there. Imagine something along the lines of the Van City building, but better.

I think with some good urban design, NEFC can be a good neighbourhood incorporating the Viaducts.

Think of it like this, if the Vaducts go, that means ALL traffic leaving downtown would be a street level, clogging intersection and making crossing the street a challenge. Now couple that with a Canucks game. It would be a disaster.

We are finally on the verge of building a Malkin connector and overpass which will connect these two viaducts with Clark. Why would we simultaneously contemplate tearing down the viaducts? It defies logic. It's just one person's pipe dream.

There is real potential with the real estate between the viaducts that have not yet been realized. I wouldn't tear them down although they are beginning to sag a little bit.

I wouldn't tear them down.
Traffic would hit a major snarl at the escarpment.
The viaducts actually have a pretty sleek design.
They don't use bents so they aren't as obtrusive as say the approaches to the Burrrad Bridge, Granville Bridge or the viaduct between Terminal Ave and 1st Ave.

Well you know TheTyee.ca is probably the most left-wing of all media outlets in BC (and BC is generally already left-wing socialist), a haven for all types of far-left extremists (union appeasers, tree huggers you know it). Anyone except them would know that development needs to be balanced.

I'm of two minds on the issue.

On the one hand, the viaducts do constitute a viable means of entry into the downtown core for commercial and trades traffic, which as much as possible should not be hindered.

On the other, the rest of the "working class," who can apparently afford to drive to work every day and live in the suburbs, but apparently cannot afford to live closer to downtown (trust me: If I can afford to live here, most people people who drive into downtown certainly can), should be discouraged from driving and encouraged to use what amounts to pretty excellent transit infrastructure - all the way out to the god-forsaken burbs.

As a preliminary measure, perhaps tolls for non-commercial and -industrial traffic could be instituted on major entry-points to downtown. Given that driving and parking in Vancouver is ridiculously cheap compared to many other large cities, this would give us a more realistic picture as to how badly those viaducts are actually needed.

Yes the traffic will disappear. In Seoul, South Korea, they removed an elevated freeway (which used to carry 180,000 vehicles a day) that bisected the dense city, replacing it with park and a day lighting a buried river. No new roads were built. When asked where the traffic went, planners shrugged. They had no idea. Traffic on other roads was no worse than before the viaducts were demolished.

Source: link below

The opposite of "If you build it they will come" is "If you remove it they will go".

BTW - it will be a mistake to try to replace the capacity by widening or improving other roads. Best bet, just tear it down and replace the grid for dense development and parks

Check out this link for more information:
http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009...p-save-a-city/

And if you keep going down that path you will slowly but surely turn downtown into a suburb. Actually more of a resort than a suburb. And that process is already taking place given that new office space is being added along the Broadway/Lougheed corridor and in Burnaby, Surrey and other places. Who knows, maybe one day in not too distant future Metrotown becomes the new business center/downtown of Metro Vancouver.

So, uh, if we tear down the Viaducts, are we going to tear down the SkyTrain and put it all underground as well? And while we're at it, lets reroute the bloody Trans Canada Highway to 0 Avenue, and tear down the Port Mann Bridge just so we can reclaim the land and rebuild Port Mann. Lets not stop there though. How about we invent the 0 emission, electric hover car, make it free for everyone to own one, and then we wouldn't need roads at all! We could just fly everywhere.

Agreed. Just another idiocy from Gregor and his Green Goons, in their attempt to make downtown Vancouver as relevant and vibrant as Brentwood Mall.

Couple that with the assinine idea of removing the ramps from the Granville Street bridge. :hell:

I think a good compromise would be to develop between the viaducts, the space between (a development like Toronto's Maple Leaf Square next to the ACC would be quite ideal)....especially the massive lot east of GM Place just across the street. And the Canucks should definitely get going with their office/hotel tower as part of the GM Place complex.


Maple Leaf Square
http://www.theworldedition.com/news/...f-square-2.jpg
According to MLSE (though others sources cite slightly different figures), the two glass and precast concrete towers will be 65 stories, containing 872 residential units, a 169-room Hotel LeGermain Boutique Hotel, 230,000 square feet (21,000 m2) of office space, 110,000 square feet (10,000 m2) of retail space, a 7,000-square-foot (650 m2) daycare centre, a High-Definition theatre that will broadcast Leafs TV and Raptors NBA TV 24-hours a day, and four levels of underground parking with nearly 900 spaces. The retail complex will include a Longo's grocery, a 24,000-square-foot (2,200 m2) sports bar, a sports retail store, and a fine dining restaurant.[2] For residents, there will be a rooftop garden and swimming pool.




The developments between the viaducts would go a very long way to fill the void. And the viaducts could also be given some aesthetic improvements....it'll go a long way. For instance, some special lighting like what we're doing for the Canada Line guideway on No.3 Road or the Cambie Bridge lighting.
http://www.dot.state.fl.us/structure.../portlight.jpg

I agree. Maple Leafs Square is quite a wonderful project that Toronto's got. We do need to do something similar with our viaducts. I'm not so sure that demolishing the viaducts is such a good idea, it is, as one poster pointed out, one of the major routes in getting to downtown. With this being said, though, I noticed that some developers are beginning to built around the viaducts. I noticed much more condo development near and around the Granville bridge

I haven't actually seen any pictures of the special lighting for the Canada Line guideways. I think that was an experiment a while back ago, but I don't think they've installed those special lighting effects on the guideways, just yet (unless I'm incorrect, and they already have installed them). As for the Cambie bridge lighting - I haven't seen pics of that, either. Do you have any pics you could provide for us?

I've always found it interesting how we don't use the spots below the viaducts as basketball courts, or outdoor hockey rinks. They would provide shelter. I noticed that when I was in HK a number of years ago, they had many basketball courts built beneath their viaduct(s), to provide a place to play while it's raining. It would be a nice thing. Most of the basketball courts here are outdoors, and that doesn't help people if they want to play, and it's raining (and it often does here in our city).

I thought that that was always the plan...

Outdoor hockey would be a great idea. So would lighting them up. I think once you build a few developments right on the water to the south of the viaducts on Concord pacific land, the viaducts will have a completely different feeling. Right now they just feel a little isolated, but once they are surrounded it will be different. And they provide a good excuse to have ground level parks, greenspace, and activities (like the skate park).

The other problem is GM Place is built into the Viaducts. Its a major way of getting to the game: walking on the Georgia Viaduct. And all those brand new townhomes next door use the Viaduct as street access. Without the Dunsmuir viaduct, if you live in one of those townhomes, watch that first step, it's a doozy.

As much as some people would like to use the land for yuppie condos and inconvenience the working class all in the name of sustainability, the Viaducts are a part of this city. Taking them out now would be like removing a few ribs so you can fit in your favorite dress.