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-   -   Rose Quarter Redevelopment (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=152548)

urbanlife Apr 15, 2009 6:10 PM

deleted.

Actually in rereading the report for major league baseball, the report suggested that the PPS was the best location...which would go against the report to put a minor league ballpark at the MC.

pdxf Apr 15, 2009 6:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboi (Post 4196995)
yes...the bridge and OMSI itself would seem to block any views...maybe this would be a good excuse to finally knock down that fugly bridge!

I took a couple of screenshots from googleearth to get an idea for views. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the bridge is modelled in googleearth, but just to get an idea.... I posted them here.

*Hopefully I haven't diverted this thread too much...

PacificNW Apr 15, 2009 7:10 PM

I have misspoken: Google search: "Official MLB rules state a preference for having the home-mound-CF line facing east or northeast but it is not a requirement. Many major league parks follow the suggestion, but not all.

sowat Apr 15, 2009 8:26 PM

oops. moved

zilfondel Apr 15, 2009 9:19 PM

PDXF: excellent drawing showing your proposal. I believe the new streetcar line will branch off of the bridge, run up Water Ave, and then over the railroad tracks and Division on a new vaiduct bridge. The OMSI site has a bunch of land to the north that could be used as parking... several acres at the least. And it is very close to highway 99 and I-5, so access shouldn't be much of a problem.

I don't think views were ever a consideration for a ballpark. According to the planners, ballparks cannot face west, because the sun would get into the batter's eyes. Most of the drawings I've seen have the 1st baseline running due south.

zilfondel Apr 15, 2009 9:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanlife (Post 4197025)
one thing to keep in mind with the MC site is that it was the chosen site from that lengthy major league report when we were in the running for a team. It makes sense for the city council to want to listen to that report and chose this site for a minor league ballpark that would be expandable to a major league park.

Sam Adams and the city planner specifically stated that the Memorial Coliseum site would not be able to accommodate a major league baseball stadium, as it is far too small. According to their baseball stadium construction consultant, a MLB stadium would have to have a minimum of 40,000 seats, and is not doable on the site.

Sam did say that the Blanchard site, currently housing PPS's HQ, would be ideal for a minor league stadium, as it would be upgradeable to MLB. Unfortunately, although he said they were willing to move, he made it clear the city was not pursuing that option. He wanted to maximize the city's leverage and "financial mechanisms that expire in 2013."


If the MC comes down, we will forever (?) have a minor league baseball stadium there. :tup:

pdxhome Apr 15, 2009 9:47 PM

The MC/Rose Garden site is large enough to house a MLB stadium, HOWEVER, this would be without the "Live" stuff that goes along with this proposal. One thing that would be exciting to see is if a AAA baseball field could be oriented in the direction of a future MLB stadium, that way if (BIG "IF") MLB comes knocking in 10-20 years and the "Live" thing just isn't working out you could potentially redevelop the site again for MLB use.

Although people around Portland would have a fit at the thought of potentially redevloping this site again in 10-20 years. Maybe by then someone with verrrry deep pockets comes into town...

pdxf Apr 15, 2009 10:13 PM

I can't imagine building a AAA baseball stadium that can't be upgraded in the future. Seems like a bad move for long term. If I stay inspired, I may try to update my site plan with a better orientation tonight.

jaxg8r1 Apr 15, 2009 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxf (Post 4197625)
I can't imagine building a AAA baseball stadium that can't be upgraded in the future. Seems like a bad move for long term. If I stay inspired, I may try to update my site plan with a better orientation tonight.

Stay inspired! :cheers:

urbanlife Apr 15, 2009 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilfondel (Post 4197513)
Sam Adams and the city planner specifically stated that the Memorial Coliseum site would not be able to accommodate a major league baseball stadium, as it is far too small. According to their baseball stadium construction consultant, a MLB stadium would have to have a minimum of 40,000 seats, and is not doable on the site.

Sam did say that the Blanchard site, currently housing PPS's HQ, would be ideal for a minor league stadium, as it would be upgradeable to MLB. Unfortunately, although he said they were willing to move, he made it clear the city was not pursuing that option. He wanted to maximize the city's leverage and "financial mechanisms that expire in 2013."


If the MC comes down, we will forever (?) have a minor league baseball stadium there. :tup:

I corrected my earlier statement after rereading the report that was released a while ago. So I would have to say it doesnt make sense to spend all that money on the report, then when it comes time to put it in action, not to listen to it...if that is the case, why spend money on planning if the city council refuses to listen to what planners are saying?

So yes you are correct that if the ballpark goes at the MC it would stay a minor league ballpark, which is not a good enough reason to put it there because a AAA ballpark should be placed in a location that will allow for a MLB expansion if Portland were to ever get one...it is much easier to compete for a team when we would already have a place that could be upgraded for them.

zilfondel Apr 16, 2009 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanlife (Post 4197793)
I corrected my earlier statement after rereading the report that was released a while ago. So I would have to say it doesnt make sense to spend all that money on the report, then when it comes time to put it in action, not to listen to it...if that is the case, why spend money on planning if the city council refuses to listen to what planners are saying?

So yes you are correct that if the ballpark goes at the MC it would stay a minor league ballpark, which is not a good enough reason to put it there because a AAA ballpark should be placed in a location that will allow for a MLB expansion if Portland were to ever get one...it is much easier to compete for a team when we would already have a place that could be upgraded for them.

Bingo. This is why the PPS site should be pursued, as its large enough. Or, PDXF's OMSI site, although it likely wouldn't be large enough either.

Current plans would result in Portland losing an asset (MC, which is a great venue opportunity for non-major league games, and community events), while replacing it with something worth substantially less: a 9,000 seat uncovered ballpark.

pdxf Apr 16, 2009 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilfondel (Post 4197814)
Bingo. Or, PDXF's OMSI site, although it likely wouldn't be large enough either.

I'm actually pretty sure that the OMSI site is large enough for MLB. The latest site plan uses the stadium footprint for the MLB proposal at the Post Office Site, which I basically just copied to the OMSI site, and it's a little roomier than my first studies. All of my sketches use a MLB sized stadium.

PacificNW Apr 16, 2009 1:06 AM

I understood, at one time, that AAA Baseball was considering the stadium presently located in the Hillsboro for a temporary location. If this is indeed a fact shouldn't it be considered as an option prior to steamrolling along the present path? I realize that watching a baseball game in Hillsboro is not ideal for those whole live in Portland but, with a little patience and foresight, a better permanent/expandable (MLB) location for the park can be found, IMO.

Joeplayer19 Apr 16, 2009 1:48 AM

People in Hillsboro don't want to watch a game in Hillsboro. Lol Maybe its just me, but sometimes I need to get the hell out of this suburb.

PacificNW Apr 16, 2009 1:52 AM

↑ :cheers:

pdxhome Apr 16, 2009 2:01 AM

If we're talking about a baseball stadium located in Hillsboro, then we may as well go back to discussion about Lents. Some previous conversations indicated that placing a baseball field, particuarly AAA, that far out of the Downtown core in Lents or Hillsboro would cut out a signifigant portion of the Beavers fan base (i.e. Hillsboro fans won't drive to Lents and Eastside fans won't drive to Hillsboro).

Let's remember that one of the biggest motives for a baseball field at MC is to help the City fulfill a 20+ year long goal of revitalizing the Rose Quarter.

PacificNW Apr 16, 2009 2:38 AM

I mentioned in my posting that Hillsboro would only be a temporary facility. My question: Why spend millions on a AAA facility that "might not" viable for expanding into a MLB facility in the future? My thought was to use a temporary location (such as the current Hillsboro stadium) and not spend the millions until a more suitable location is found/available. That new location could be Lents for all I care. I just don't want MC bulldozed until all options have been explored.

pdxf Apr 16, 2009 2:54 PM

I created a new site plan, with a southeast orientation, just to show that other orientations can be done with the site. Perhaps a north-south orientation would provide better views, but all of this could be worked out later. I posted the new siteplan on the site:
http://www.liquidosity.com/baseballatomsi/

It looks like we have a week before the decision is made to demo Memorial Coliseum. It seems like Sam and Randy are pretty set on the Rose Quarter as the site, but perhaps if there was a better solution that caused some buzz and discussion amongst the community, there could potentially be some hope. Obviously I think that the OMSI site is an intriguing option, and I think it has some major advantages over other proposed sites.

If anyone here also thinks it's a viable option, and an alternative to demolition of the Memorial Coliseum, I encourage you to email the idea and the website to anyone that will listen. I have included Brian Libby's email address (portlandarchitecture.com), the contact for the burnside blog, and email addresses for the city commissioners on the website. Perhaps if enough on this message board email the idea to these parties, this idea could gain some momentum.

http://www.liquidosity.com/baseballa...plan_small.jpg

urbanlife Apr 16, 2009 6:38 PM

I actually like your OMSI site idea. OMSI is a destination place and adding another destination place and a new parking structure to help replace the parking that would be lost and needed.

I have only one question with that area, how would traffic be handled? The lights leading out of that area are on a long cycle and are not meant to handle heavy amounts of traffic. I am guessing any games there, it would be quite the added mess getting in and out of that area. I know light rail would elevate some of this issue, but it would still be a serious issue that needed to be looked at fully.

pdxhome Apr 16, 2009 7:18 PM

The traffic is probably the biggest deterent for the OMSI site. I know the City has been involved in several planning efforts of the Central Eastside Industrial Area. It seems to me that one of the primary concerns would be the rail line that runs through the district. It is an active line that at certian times of the day can make the roads in this part of town cut off from the rest of the transportation system.


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