:previous:

I agree that the Saint John Airport is in no jeopardy. nwalbert is correct that the airport authority is just trying to bring attention to their situation so that other revenue streams, such as an airport industrial park can be added to the facility.

While a single central airport for NB seems to make sense, the cost of such a facility would likely be close to a billion dollars and would create economic dislocation to all three major cities. The GMIA alone contributes $380M to the local economy in Greater Moncton. Add to this the need to improve transportation infrastructure to a proposed central airport (especially from Fredericton) and I think such a project becomes truly untenable.

I do think that serious consideration should be given to closing the small northern airports in Miramichi, Bathurst and Charlo. Service to these facilities is spotty at best and sometimes non-existent. The monies saved could be reinvested elsewhere.

I also think that there could be some type of overarching NB Airport Authority, charged with making the current system as efficient as possible. Of course all three airports should maintain important routes to places like Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto, but a provincial authority could help in distributing other routes equitably between all three facilities for the benefit of all.

For example:
- the GMIA could be given routes to New York, Paris and Calgary.
- the Saint John Airport could recieve routes to Boston, Chicago and Vancouver
- the Fredericton Airport could maintain routes to London, Atlanta and Edmonton.

You get the idea......

This way, duplication could be avoided, infrastructure costs would be minimized and the NB populace would benefit by having better route selection!

Win, win, win

Thoughts?

:burstbubble

Why do you think that New Brunswickers should automatically and slavishly support Halifax Stanfield?

You have pointed out in the past that Halifax Stanfield contributes $1.2B to the Halifax economy, but how does this help the tax base in NB? It is in the economic best interests of our province to try and maximize our own tax base. This is how we get to pay for our basic services and improve our provincial well being!

Sorry q12, but Halifax Stanfield doesn't do too much for NB. It's close enough to Moncton that I fly out of Stanfield occasionally (if it makes sense), but if you are from Freddy or SJ, it makes more sense to drive to Bangor. The rates are better too!!!

And my choice of possible route selections was not "pie in the sky"

Moncton already has daily service to NYC and used to have seasonal service to Paris. Also, I flew West Jet to Calgary once from Moncton, the plane landed in Toronto en route, but I just stayed on the plane as the ultimate destination was Calgary. SJ used to have daily service to Boston and last year there was a charter route from Freddy to London. The examples I used were based on reality.

Halifax just has to learn to share the wealth!! ;)

You do realize that by Stanfield being an Atlantic Canadian hub for Air Canada you could fly from Freddy, SJ, or Moncton into Halifax and then onto your destination.

I just looked on AC's website as an example it was cheaper in September to fly from NB cities through Stanfield to London on AC than it was for just Stanfield to London.

Also for the past 8 years if you have been heading to the States via Stanfield, you would have the added benefit of U.S. Customs pre-clearance without having to deal with Toronto.

"Used to" are the keywords. Other than the Moncton-New York Route those other routes failed... why? Because they couldn't make money, end of story. ;)

Direct flights are always more convenient than connecting flights, especially when flying internationally. I never fly to Halifax for connections. For one thing, the planes that they use are so small that you are really limited for carry-on luggage. The connections from Moncton to both Toronto and Montreal are much better - bigger equipment, more selection and better frequency.

The last time I flew out of Halifax was to Boston for a conference. The cost of the connecting flight to Halifax was prohibitive (as far as I was concerned), so I drove to Stanfield instead.

Coming back, the cab to Logan took about 40 minutes. I arrived about 2.5 hours before the flight to Halifax, the flight itself was delayed about 30 minutes and flying time was another 90 minutes. Arriving in Halifax, it took another 30 minutes to deplane and clear customs and then I had a 2.5 hour drive back to Moncton. Total travel time therefore was 8 hours.

YOU CAN DRIVE TO BOSTON FROM MONCTON IN EIGHT HOURS AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CHEAPER AND MORE FUN!!!!

Stanfield is a convenient airport if you live in Halifax, but if you are from NB, it's just another example of the "giant sucking sound' coming from the province next door........

These other routes (save for the SJ-Boston one) were not Air Canada routes. They were charter routes and thus rather unstable at the best of times. Air Canada has always given NB short shrift. They are strong believers in the spoke and wheel system, which naturally benefits "hubs" like Halifax, while generally treating passengers emanating from the "colonies" like cattle.

can't close those down... you have to remember that airports don't only serve for the purpose of scheduled passenger transport.

The air ambulance goes to these 3 airports....was very happy to have that service close by when I needed it!

They also act as refueiling stations....way more effective to have Search and rescue to refuel in Charlo for a search in Campbellton area than waist almost 2hours back and fourth to refuel in Fredericton

All of them are equipped to fill firefighting airplanes with fire retardant plus Miramichi is the home base.

PEI air lands in Bathurst and Miramichi for parcel services 3 to 4 times a week.

Bathurst has over 40 000 passengers a year and number is growing year over year with 2 Jazz flights a day and that number will considerably grow if the flight to Wabush mining camps works out.

And you would be surprised at how many charters are landing at those airports....

:previous:

All very good points......but does the north need so many airports?

As airstrips, maybe. They do serve functions, such as the aforementioned charter services, refuel and emergency stops.

But we're throwing more good money after bad if we continue to spend money to enhance facilities like the Miramichi Airport. They're on a campaign right now to get their runway extended to 10,000 ft so that they can become an air-cargo hub.

I love the initiative, but it just isn't going to happen. When you have a limited amount of funding available, pouring more money into the place is completely counter-productive when there are much more viable alternatives in play. Moncton has the infrastructure, the industry, the transportation links, and the demand. The Miramichi, unfortunately, doesn't have any of these things at the moment.

It'd be like saying we aren't going to invest in the port of Saint John because Shediac could use a container terminal.

I heard on the radio today that traffic at the Wabush Airport has increased from about 60,000 a couple of years ago to 100,000 now.

I cant believe that Miramichi is trying to be an "air cargo hub" the idea is purely foolish!! The distance between Moncton and Mirimichi is basically nothing...

Moncton is already the Atlantic base for Fedex and Puro, the regional hub (east NB) for DHL and Canada Post and the HQ of Midland courier, and Armour Courier...those six make up the majority of time sensitive package delivery in Atlantic Canada.

On top of that the transportation network leading out of the city is lacking...no four lanes to be found...companies would have to drive to Moncton and then head out to other destinations haha...

Also speaking from inside the biz I know that we at Fedex are doing very well in Moncton and we are expanding our workforce along with other "expansions" which may be leaked by an interesting forumer as info becomes available ;)

So this is basically a government being foolish with its money and attempting to cater to a dying city...I wish they would at least try to be REALISTIC when funding these initiatives.

Reposted from the Fredericton thread.

This is partially for q12's benefit. It seems that Freddypop is also not a fan of having to use Stanfield for connections to nearby American cities like Boston. At least for him, Bangor is an option and is only 2.5 hours drive away. It's a cheaper alternative to boot. If I lived in Fredericton, I'd fly out of Bangor too (unless there were attractive direct flights out of your own city's airport).

If I lived in Fredericton I'd probably just drive the I-95 to Boston. It can probably be done in 5 1/2 - 6 hours.

:previous:

True enough, but there are a lot of people in western NB that fly out of Bangor to make connections elsewhere in the US. It's cheaper and you clear customs before you even get to the airport.

Bangor is significant competition to both the Saint John and Fredericton airports.

You can drive from Fredericton to the Boston area in 6.5 hours if you really push it. Downtown add, 30-90 minutes depending on time of day.

The drive makes sense if you are in fact destined for Boston. Many folks from SJ (same driving time) and Fredericton drive to Bangor to fly to Florida, etc..

The Bangor airport is MAJOR(the only) competition to the SJ and Fredericton airports for anyone flying to the US. The Halifax airport is great for folks headed to Europe. I often connect through Halifax coming back from Europe, although I am not a fan of the timing of the red eye to LHR from Halifax.

If NB had a decent airport we could feed off of Stanfield nicely, but a central airport will take a lot of folks to realize that the current situation is not sufficient and that will probably never happen.

Yeah that is just silly, Moncton is the hub for air cargo in NB, no sense on them making a campaign to gather money for this.

Miramichi with all the land available for expantion should focus on a business park with air related business (testing facility or maintenance or manufacturing...) They are too close to Moncton to dream about any scheduled flight.

Bathurst will remain the passenger airport or the north, With currents plans of terminal and runway expantion to desserve the new generation of jazz planes, and possible additional flights.

Charlo should market itself as a training facility. There is so little air traffic in that area that the students of a flight school would be less likely to create near-misses with other planes (but would have to watch out for the mountains). I know it is used by the DND for parachuting exercises and is host for what is becoming a bi-annual snowbirds show (they are there this wednesday with other "Royal" air force planes)

Miramichi got their funding.

Good grief...

just for infrastuctue amelioration ( lights, runway repairs, navigation aids...) not for the expantion of the runway

It's ridiculous! And they say many times in the article that it's to help Miramichi have an air cargo hub... sooooooooo pointless.

And on that note anyone knows when the runway expansion an YQM will be complete? It looks like they've started a while ago...

I spoke to Rob Robichaud a few weeks ago and if I remember correctly, I don't think the runway expansion is happening until next year. They are doing some paving work in places right now.

I hope they don't want to use Aviation Avenue as an access route for the construction trucks. At the rate they're building that road, it'll be 2017 before they make it far enough to be of any use.

Well, I'm typing this from my hotel room in Toronto.....

I flew via Porter for the first time out of Moncton. The Bombardier Q400 is a very nice aircraft. It seats 70 and is quite spacious on the inside with lots of legroom. This was most appreciated, especially since my unintended seatmate weighed about 350 lbs. Despite this, I didn't feel crowded.

On the way up, you have to make a station stop in Ottawa. This is a bit of a pain, but I was surprised at how many passengers actually got off in Ottawa. I wonder if Porter is having any effect on the Moncton-Ottawa Air Canada route?

One benefit of the station stop in Ottawa is that you get fed twice, once on each leg of the journey. It's not bad. It's a box lunch with a wrap and a small pasta salad. You have your choice of beverages (I had beer) and it's all free. The flight attendants wear nice retro costumes with pillbox hats and the quality of the service was exceptional.

Arriving in TO, the approach to Billy Bishop Airport on Toronto Island is spectacular. Deplaning was a breeze. I just had carry on and was able to walk right through the baggage claim area to the ferry terminal. This took about 3-4 minutes. The ferry was waiting and the crossing to the mainland took another 3-4 minutes. The free shuttle bus to downtown was already waiting at the terminal and the drive to the Royal York took no more that 8-10 minutes. From there, i was able to walk to tbe Sheraton in about 5 minutes!!

So, it only took about 20 minutes from deplaning to get to my hotel downtown and it was all free!!!. This compares quite favourably to navigating Pearson (at least 10-15 minutes) and taking a 30 minute, $60 cab ride to downtown.

Air Canada needs to mend it's ways, especially since they now intend to charge you for even one piece of checked luggage!! :hell: