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-   -   SAN FRANCISCO | Oceanwide Center (50 First St) | 910 & 636 FT | 61 & 54 Floors (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=185537)

david_h Oct 23, 2019 8:15 PM

Interestingly, there was a crew working on the Mission St. tower today, preparing forms for the ground or Floor 2 level. Maybe they are wrapping up this piece prior to suspending all activity...?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1f6f2e8b_z.jpg

Smashing Alligator Oct 23, 2019 8:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david_h (Post 8727188)
Interestingly, there was a crew working on the Mission St. tower today, preparing forms for the ground or Floor 2 level. Maybe they are wrapping up this piece prior to suspending all activity...?

They are actually working on dismantling all the core forms and concrete pumping equipment. I can see them taking them apart and stacking the parts up for pick-up one by one. Unfortunately, this probably means that they aren't planning on securing funding anytime soon since it took them a while to put up all the core forms and concrete pumping equipment. I won't be surprised to see them dismantling this crane this weekend. At least, they were able to get the ground level concrete pour in to cover most of the exposed rebar.

Picture below, taken just now 10/23/2019:

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/78f...53a3ppypzg.jpg

Pedestrian Oct 24, 2019 8:27 PM

^^I think it's very likely that the plan now is to build the towers sequentially so the work won't resume on the Mission St. tower until the First St. one is completed or close to it which will be several years. I don't think it's a matter of "securing funding". It's a matter that they've determined sequential rather than simultaneous is the way to go based on market conditions.

Incidentally, there's a consensus right now in the real estate industry that it's hard to build condos profitably in SF right now and that hotels are one of the riskiest segments of the industry in a recession. The Mission tower was to have those 2 components whereas the First St. tower has a lot of office--a much safer bet in SF right now.

So I think Oceanwide is placing their bet on the office part of the project and hoping in 2-3 years, when that's done, the outlook for hotels and condos will be improving rather than worsening (that is, we'll be coming out of any 2020-2021 recession if there is one).

Skyy Oct 24, 2019 9:54 PM

While it's a shame that we may see a long delay for the condo/hotel portion, I'm really glad the taller, skyline defining one is still rolling

bossabreezes Oct 25, 2019 12:35 AM

Could they possibly reconsider the hotel/condo component for the tower on hold and just go with commercial space/office?

If they did, it could possibly speed up the re-start of the second tower.

mt_climber13 Oct 25, 2019 12:38 AM

If you look at the floorplates that looks way too small for office, hardly any space because of how huge the core/ elevator shafts are. You can get away with tiny cramped spaces for hotel rooms and condos, but not for offices, at least not offices that will attract premium rents required to pay off the sky high construct costs + profits.

Pedestrian Oct 25, 2019 7:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossabreezes (Post 8728600)
Could they possibly reconsider the hotel/condo component for the tower on hold and just go with commercial space/office?

If they did, it could possibly speed up the re-start of the second tower.

I believe that would need a whole new set of approvals from the Planning Dept. as well as a Prop. M allocation (for which they'd be at the end of a long line).

SoCal Alan Oct 25, 2019 1:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8728876)
I believe that would need a whole new set of approvals from the Planning Dept. as well as a Prop. M allocation (for which they'd be at the end of a long line).

I think it's easier to just add a couple hundred feet to the taller office tower... :)

CaliNative Nov 8, 2019 8:18 AM

Any activity or news since the last post on Oct. 25?

Skyy Nov 8, 2019 6:10 PM

No concrete news, but I walked by a couple days ago and there was a good amount workers and activity on the First Street Tower

theskythelimit Nov 19, 2019 11:47 PM

Not surprised by this and IMO, a positive move to move this project forward.

Quote:

Oceanwide Center, one of San Francisco’s largest development projects, is on the market, according to sources familiar with the offering.

The Chinese developer behind the troubled project, Oceanwide Holdings, is now looking to sell it along with a portfolio of other U.S. projects, including the under construction Oceanwide Plaza in Los Angeles and a tower development site in New York.
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranc..._news_headline

viewguysf Nov 20, 2019 4:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8403400)
I think those who argued the Chinese wouldn't just stop this project now, because it would cost them dearly, are right. The present developers might sell it, but work would continue. San Francisco desparately needs the office space (in developments approved before the Prop. M limits kick in) and there's already a contract with Waldorf Astoria for the hotel space plus the fact that at this point, aside from a lot of the work being done, it's likely the steel and other materials are on order and must be paid for.

Post #768 from last December 9, 2018...I also think it will continue and this could be a positive turn, but never bought into the Waldorf Astoria concept of its saving the project. According to the Business Times article, that deal is now in the rear view mirror.

timbad Nov 20, 2019 6:40 AM

not sure this tells us anything... looks about the same as the last time I was by there:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...bcf04073_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...150fee83_b.jpg

Pedestrian Nov 21, 2019 7:00 PM

Well, I think most of us have been kind of expecting this, but here it is:

Quote:

Exclusive: Developer puts S.F.'s Oceanwide Center, other U.S. holdings on market
By Blanca Torres – Reporter, San Francisco Business Times
Nov 19, 2019, 3:03pm PST Updated Nov 19, 2019, 3:38pm PST

Oceanwide Center, one of San Francisco’s largest development projects, is on the market, according to sources familiar with the offering.

The Chinese developer behind the troubled project, Oceanwide Holdings, is now looking to sell it along with a portfolio of other U.S. projects, including the under construction Oceanwide Plaza in Los Angeles and a tower development site in New York.

Commercial brokerage firm JLL is handling the portfolio listing, according to the sources. JLL and Oceanwide did not immediately provide comment on the potential sale.

Oceanwide Center is considered the most coveted office project in San Francisco because of its prime location in SoMa, expansive size, and because Salesforce is believed to have started lease negotiations for the entire, 1.1 million-square-foot office component . . . .

Earlier this year, several big developers and investors looked at or made bids to buy the project, including TMG Partners, Boston Properties, Related California, Hines, Northwood Investors and Tishman Speyer, sources have told the Business Times.

Oceanwide rejected all of those bids, saying they were too low. Those offers came in on a one-off basis, a source said, but the JLL listing would involve a more formal bidding process for interested buyers.

The company also sought a buyer for its New York site, where it plans to build a tower more than 1,400 feet tall encompassing 818,000 square feet at 80 South St., this year but then secured a $175 million loan this summer, according to The Real Deal . . . .

Pricing estimates would be hard to decipher at this point considering the varying progress at each of the sites. In San Francisco, the office component is moving along, albeit slowly considering the project is three years into construction, but some sources speculated the condo and hotel tower may no longer make financial sense as planned.
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranc...5XR3AifQ%3D%3D

SLO Nov 21, 2019 9:42 PM

That’s too bad, but looked like there was a lot of interest if they can get to the right price.

mt_climber13 Nov 21, 2019 10:11 PM

Redesign?

SoCal Alan Nov 21, 2019 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mt_climber13 (Post 8755550)
Redesign?

To make it taller? :)

Pedestrian Nov 22, 2019 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mt_climber13 (Post 8755550)
Redesign?

What makes a project like this in SF valuable is (a) there's already interest in leasing the whole thing so it's not just a "spec" project and (b) it's fully "entitled" as is (approved by Planning, got building permits, no legal challenges blah, blah).

A significant redesign would void all that as well as costing money and taking time itself. It would have to be approved by Planning, possibly require another EIR (or waiver), subject it to potential court challenges. In other words, it could stop construction and add years to completion.

At least when it comes to the First St tower that's still under construction, it would make no sense that I can see. I expect construction on that to continue at, as the BizTimes says, a "slow pace" until a buyer comes forward.

If it's true the Mission Tower, already halted, no longer pencils out as hotel/residential, THAT and that only might seek approval for conversion to office (but probably NOT any change in its envelope--i.e. making it taller).

bossabreezes Nov 22, 2019 2:14 AM

Yeah I highly suspect that the second tower will be converted to office space. Probably better for it to get off the ground faster.

L.ARCH Nov 22, 2019 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossabreezes (Post 8755752)
Yeah I highly suspect that the second tower will be converted to office space. Probably better for it to get off the ground faster.

I believe they would likely have to go to the "back of the line", as there is currently an ~6 year backlog of Prop M commercial space already approved in the pipe line. Changing the use and approving a new building design would take years to accomplish.


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