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-   -   Phoenix 101: What killed downtown (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=239762)

Sun Belt Jul 26, 2019 2:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subterranean (Post 8641602)
Not coincidentally the decade in-home air conditioning began to proliferate (50s).

It's not just Phoenix growth, the U.S. more than doubled in population since 1950.

The population has grown by 181 million people since 1950. Those people had to live somewhere, fortunately we had/have plenty of room.

Obadno Jul 30, 2019 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8641842)
:previous:

Funny you should bring those up; I recently talked to someone about swamp coolers... I guess I could look up how they work online, but basically what they told me was that swamp coolers only work in dry climates, and it basically blows cold moist air (vs. an air conditioner which blows cold dry air).

So do they act as humidifiers too, then? They'd be good for people who have issues with dry air?

Yeah when it’s hot restaurants basically make micro climate a of shade mist and breezes that can make sitting outside even in extreme temps fine.

Last evening had happy hour it was 109, however the real temp of the patio was probably something like ~92

10023 Jul 31, 2019 6:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obadno (Post 8645444)
Yeah when it’s hot restaurants basically make micro climate a of shade mist and breezes that can make sitting outside even in extreme temps fine.

Last evening had happy hour it was 109, however the real temp of the patio was probably something like ~92

Either of those temperatures are awful.

dc_denizen Jul 31, 2019 11:49 AM

Phoenix isn’t humid so 110 doesn’t feel as hot as 95 in Washington DC. Most of the year the climate is fantastic, if you like that sort of thing.

10023 Jul 31, 2019 1:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_denizen (Post 8646105)
Phoenix isn’t humid so 110 doesn’t feel as hot as 95 in Washington DC. Most of the year the climate is fantastic, if you like that sort of thing.

London isn’t humid and I don’t like when it gets above 80.

Sun Belt Jul 31, 2019 1:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8646154)
London isn’t humid and I don’t like when it gets above 80.

London at 80 does not equal 80 in the desert southwest.

Some people like clouds and drizzle, some people like sun and heat.

Speaking of sunny, warm climates, the red area has a population just under 150 million people and has seen by far, the majority of growth for the last 50 years. By 2030, that red area will have absorbed 85% of the total population growth of the United States.

So, while you might not prefer 80 degrees and in London, many Americans do.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...1/Sun_belt.svg

[I'd alter the map to include RDU and OKC.]

JManc Jul 31, 2019 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8646154)
London isn’t humid and I don’t like when it gets above 80.

London isn't humid? Say what? It's in the southeast corner of an island in the north Atlantic that gets a lot of rain.

subterranean Jul 31, 2019 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Belt (Post 8646161)

Speaking of sunny, warm climates, the red area has a population just under 150 million people and has seen by far, the majority of growth for the last 50 years. By 2030, that red area will have absorbed 85% of the total population growth of the United States.

[I'd alter the map to include RDU and OKC.]

And despite much of the South's denial, the past will not be a good indicator of its future prosperity given the mounting climate crisis. We could very well see this trend reverse in our lifetimes.

Obadno Jul 31, 2019 7:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8646154)
London isn’t humid and I don’t like when it gets above 80.

London isn’t humid... my man ... :haha: what are you smoking

Obadno Jul 31, 2019 7:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8646014)
Either of those temperatures are awful.

I don’t know what else to say, low 90’s in a dry climate is like 75 in humid ones.

It simply isn’t comparable to your frame of reference until you feel it for yourself.

10023 Jul 31, 2019 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8646244)
London isn't humid? Say what? It's in the southeast corner of an island in the north Atlantic that gets a lot of rain.

Rain and humidity are different things. The air is generally not humid here, and that’s why the temperature drops so significantly at night.

We’re on the west coast of Europe, which like the west coast of the US, is less humid. Also, London gets less rain than New York if you’re talking inches in a year.

10023 Jul 31, 2019 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obadno (Post 8646491)
London isn’t humid... my man ... :haha: what are you smoking

Not compared to anywhere in the US east of the Rockies it isn’t.

iheartthed Jul 31, 2019 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subterranean (Post 8646270)
And despite much of the South's denial, the past will not be a good indicator of its future prosperity given the mounting climate crisis. We could very well see this trend reverse in our lifetimes.

Last week, there was an op-ed in the NYT that showed the increase in average number of 90 degree days, in a sampling of U.S. cities, over the past decade vs. the average number from 1900 - 1980. Of the cities:

-The Sun Belt cities showed biggest increase in number of days.
-Northeast cities increased by similar percentages as the Sun Belt cities, but the overall number of days was minimal by comparison.
-Midwest cities were mostly unchanged (but it seems likely that that would change if trends in neighboring regions continue)
-Miami is off the fucking chart.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019...y=90&auto=webp

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/23/o...te-change.html

JManc Jul 31, 2019 8:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8646513)
Rain and humidity are different things. The air is generally not humid here, and that’s why the temperature drops so significantly at night.

We’re on the west coast of Europe, which like the west coast of the US, is less humid. Also, London gets less rain than New York if you’re talking inches in a year.

New York is a very humid climate. Southern California and the PNW are very different climates despite being on the west coast. Spain and the UK are Western Europe but are substantially different climate regions. Even within France it varies dramatically.

cityscapes Jul 31, 2019 9:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8646614)
New York is a very humid climate. Southern California and the PNW are very different climates despite being on the west coast. Spain and the UK are Western Europe but are substantially different climate regions. Even within France it varies dramatically.

Not true, if you go by the Köppen climate classification system Southern California is Csa (Mediterranean warm summer) and the PNW is Csb (Mediterranean cool summer) both clearly in the same climate group.

Europe is more more diverse in terms of climate classification but Spain is split between Csa and Csb and most of Northern Europe is Cfb (Oceanic) which is still in the C group of temperate climates.

Substantially different would be something like the change from arid to tropical or tundra / polar climates like in South America and Africa.

Shawn Aug 1, 2019 12:39 AM

Don’t want to derail too much, but 10023 has it right about London (and basically all of Ireland outside the west coast): it’s wet and rainy, but not humid. East Coast US cities feel worse on average during the summer than London or Dublin, given the same temperature.

You walk around Midtown or Back Bay on an 85 F day in July for 10 minutes in a dress shirt and your lower back is a goddamn swamp. You don’t get this in Dublin or London. Those big day-night swings in temperature are a good giveaway.

iheartthed Aug 1, 2019 3:44 PM

According to this site, during the summer months, London has roughly the same average humidity as New York:

NY: https://weather-and-climate.com/aver...tes-of-America

LON: https://weather-and-climate.com/aver...United-Kingdom

JManc Aug 1, 2019 3:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn (Post 8646761)
Don’t want to derail too much, but 10023 has it right about London (and basically all of Ireland outside the west coast): it’s wet and rainy, but not humid. East Coast US cities feel worse on average during the summer than London or Dublin, given the same temperature.

You walk around Midtown or Back Bay on an 85 F day in July for 10 minutes in a dress shirt and your lower back is a goddamn swamp. You don’t get this in Dublin or London. Those big day-night swings in temperature are a good giveaway.

New Yorker is considerably hotter in the summer. I was in Paris last September and it wasn't NY swamp ass but it got pretty humid.

Obadno Aug 1, 2019 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8647161)
New Yorker is considerably hotter in the summer. I was in Paris last September and it wasn't NY swamp ass but it got pretty humid.

I was in Belgium 2 back in 2017 about mid july and it was 50 something and rainy.

I then realized that European climates are way more stable than american climates. You dont get as cold, you dont get as hot in almost all locations. Like for example the recent french heat wave, vs the winter Russian cold spell, Im sitting here going "the Dakotas get both of those temps every year" :tup:

JAYNYC Aug 1, 2019 7:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obadno (Post 8646491)
London isn’t humid... my man ... :haha: what are you smoking

When you find out, let me know. I realized he was definitely on something as soon as he claimed that one of the newest, most well-designed, state-of-the-art stretches of interstate in the U.S. was "aesthetically disgusting".


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