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korzym Dec 19, 2009 4:26 AM

Decision 2012: Alberta Politics Thread
 
Quote:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Cl...210/story.html

Climate clash rekindles separatist grumblings in Alberta

EDMONTON — Comments from Ontario and Quebec bashing Alberta's approach to climate change are causing some Albertans to think about separation, Alberta Premier Ed Stelmach said Friday.

He made the comment during an "Ask Premier Ed" video posted to his website. Somebody on Twitter asked him: "Can we separate from Canada?"

Stelmach said the country has been good to him and his family, but he understands why Albertans are frustrated.

"I recognize though, from the question and from other comments that are being made, that there is some dissatisfaction, in terms of Alberta's role in the country of Canada," Stelmach said. "Sometimes what many people feel is a lack of recognition of our contribution."

Stelmach said the question may be the result of comments made in Copenhagen earlier this week by Quebec Premier Jean Charest and Ontario Environment Minister John Gerretsen. They said they were not willing to reduce their provincial emissions while Alberta's continue to rise.

But Stelmach has been making the case this week that Alberta makes an outsized contribution to the Canadian economy, providing roughly $5,700 per Albertan annually to the federal government.

The province even took out ads in newspapers across the country touting the Alberta's contributions.
© Copyright (c) Canwest News Service
The video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFRzCJVNAE8

Now don't get it twisted, it wasn't me that asked him that question on Twitter, so for him to even address the issue, it means that there are plenty of Albertans getting upset with this $5,700/year tax Ottawa charges this province to be Canadian. Just a disclaimer: I'm proud as hell to be Albertan, if you come here and say this place sucks, by all means: get the hell out of here.

But this isn't a separation thread, in fact, the conservatives are least likely to put forward a separation motion IMO. Rather I think he's using this address as a veiled threat to Ottawa and the idiotic leaders of ontario and quebec, and by doing so, also drumming up support for himself by talking tough. For me it doesn't do much but for sure adds some spice, if you will, to Eddie's leadership controversy [which to me is based on the royalty regime, but I assume most people don't like his body language, demeanor, learned behaviour, etc]

I've seen the Wildrose party's format, I like it much better than the status quo.

And the date will be 2012 won't it? I believe the deadline to call an election was before December of 2009 or something of that sort? Currently the date is 2012 as far as I know.

eternallyme Dec 19, 2009 5:16 AM

By 2012, Ontario will likely have a different party in power and a different Premier, who are much more conservative than Stelmach (anything with Randy Hillier involved surely is conservative).

But I do agree, the dynasty is almost up. The Alberta PC's will be lucky to be the Official Opposition - the Liberals may make gains in central Calgary and Edmonton on a vote split, while the Wildrose should sweep the rural areas and suburban parts of Calgary.

ue Dec 19, 2009 5:22 AM

Why is this even in the Calgary forum? This should be for all AB.

frinkprof Dec 19, 2009 5:25 AM

I think the latest an election can be called for is actually 2013, and as early as 2011.

freeweed Dec 19, 2009 5:59 AM

Stelmach was a mistake from day one, and anyone with any shred of sense knew it. The PCs wrote their own obit with that choice (and why the sweet hell did they just RE-AFFIRM this decision???).

Luckily, we managed to find some lovely social conservatives to reverse 20 years of progress in Alberta.

shogged Dec 19, 2009 6:13 AM

well it looks like the wildrose have updated their platform since they first gained notoriety this year. I remember they had ridiculous policies that made me cringe at the thought of (none of which I can remember 100% so i'm not going to misquote them by guessing)

still though, I really don't like their yearly standardized testing they want to implement. We all see how well that worked in the united states, where teachers spend all year preparing these students for these exams, and only these exams... and it becomes less about the curriculum and more about passing a single test or face funding cuts etc. I do like the idea of removing the social promotion in alberta schools though. Back too if you fail, you repeat. Well, I guess I only really support this if they fund education properly and give kids the tools they need to succeed in the first place. Like maximum class sizes that aren't in the 40 student range.

I also strongly dislike the idea of removing section 3 of the human rights and multiculturalism act. Link if you're not familiar with the issue

other than that, they are pretty mainstream with their policies and I can see them succeeding in the next election with strong leadership, and who knows maybe it is time for a woman to lead alberta! Time will tell!

240glt Dec 20, 2009 2:06 AM

The removal of section 3 from the HRMA is extremely troubling and they won't tell us why they want to do it. They just say they will.

The Wildrose platform is mostly boilerplate, They'll have to come clean on their real motives and agendas sooner or later. Sadly, a lot of Albertans just don't seen to care about those types of trivial details.

And of course the Wildrose will kowtow to the oil companies in ways that would probably make Ralph Klein blush.

Riise Dec 20, 2009 6:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by korzym (Post 4614372)
Just a disclaimer: I'm proud as hell to be Albertan, if you come here and say this place sucks, by all means: get the hell out of here.
...

I've seen the Wildrose party's format, I like it much better than the status quo.

I have a feeling that if the WA got into power they might turn this Province into a place many Albertans might not be too proud of and fancy leaving. I can't say this for sure as I haven't looked at their platform in detail and that would be unfair, but from what I've seen of them, albeit it not much, I don't like what I'm seeing. What I can say with some certainty is that we very well could be facing a major change of direction in this Province's political operation, I just hope we don't turn right when we should be turning left.

craneSpotter Dec 21, 2009 8:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeweed (Post 4614478)
Stelmach was a mistake from day one, and anyone with any shred of sense knew it. The PCs wrote their own obit with that choice (and why the sweet hell did they just RE-AFFIRM this decision???).

Luckily, we managed to find some lovely social conservatives to reverse 20 years of progress in Alberta.

^ ahh the popular "lets blame Stelmach for the current economic problems in Alberta" refrain, not the overall global energy slump nor the Alberta natural gas bust! An easy finger to point...somebody must pay.

Well, instead blame the Americans and their damn Shale gas for much of your current problems;) How is the current Government supposed to deal with a sudden $4 Billion + fall in natural gas royalties in one year alone? Try to restructure Oilsands royalties? Pull promised funding for infrastructure projects? Institute Provincial sales tax? Cut spending from each department? Now add to that the drop in corporate and personal taxes paid into provincial coffers; a bit of a problem that would cause any Government to stumble.

A 'shale gale' slams into Alberta

How the U.S. natural gas revolution is squeezing this province's economy


BY LISA SCHMIDT, CALGARY HERALD; CANWEST NEWS SERVICE (link)

In the good times, Peter Pleskie would look at his empty industrial yard as a sign of success for his oilpatch company.

These days, neat rows of excavators, trucks and other heavy construction equipment fill the CerPro Energy Services compound west of Medicine Hat, reminders of his sudden reversal in fortune.

CerPro was once a rising business star, rapidly expanding to a workforce of more than 300 people in less than four years as Canada's oilpatch flourished.

An explosion of natural gas drilling earlier this decade drove demand for his construction business at well sites, gas plants and pipelines throughout southern Alberta and southeast Saskatchewan.

"It seemed like there was going to be no end to the boom," says Pleskie, a welder by trade.

In early December, nearly $20 million worth of new CerPro equipment rolled off the lot for the last time, put on the auction block after the company was pushed into bankruptcy in late June.

The equipment sold for just $8.2 million.

"We powered through as hard as we could," he says.

Pleskie's troubles stem from a dramatic slowdown in Alberta's natural gas business, driven largely by an emerging new resource: shale gas.

This "shale gale," as renowned oilpatch author Daniel Yergin has termed it, is moving relentlessly across North America, driven by new technology that has unlocked major stores of the fuel.

And all Albertans, whether they know it or not, are caught in a downdraft, from out-of-work rig hands and rural hotel operators to white-collar executives in downtown office towers and ailing patients lined up in hospital emergency wards.


The natural gas industry -- long the bedrock of Alberta's economy -- faces major threats amid a fundamental shift south of the border. Massive stores of shale gas, once beyond the reach of engineers, are now successfully being squeezed out from under Texas and other U.S. states.

Now Medicine Hat, the unofficial heart of Alberta's natural gas industry for more than a century, is being battered by this shale storm, along with dozens of other Alberta communities. The abrupt slowdown in gas exploration is swelling unemployment rolls and bankruptcies, while choking off corporate profits and money flowing into government coffers.

Lower production and weak prices have slashed the provincial government's take from natural gas to $1.9 billion this year, compared to more than $6 billion a year ago.

The Stelmach government now faces nearly a $9-billion shortfall over the next three years due to the sharp drop in royalty revenues, led downward by natural gas.

The change underscores the fact that Alberta's oilpatch is really about natural gas, which traditionally pumps more than two-thirds of the province's resource revenues.

But the gas windfall is evaporating faster than anyone could have imagined.

"How quickly that geological advantage has turned into a disadvantage," says Derek Burleton, chief economist with TD Bank, who authored a study this fall on pressures facing Alberta's gas industry.

"The concern, and rightly so, is that this could persist. This isn't just a one-or two-year thing."

The stakes are high for Alberta's 3.6 million residents. The province's natural gas fuels nearly $40 billion in annual production -- more than one-10th of the entire economy.

The threat that Alberta's key export could be quickly displaced by cheaper gas closer to U.S. markets is high on the minds of provincial politicians.

"Seventy per cent of our royalties are in natural gas, so we're exceptionally vulnerable when that's down," says Finance Minister Iris Evans.

full article - http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...940/story.html

korzym Dec 21, 2009 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riise (Post 4615907)
I have a feeling that if the WA got into power they might turn this Province into a place many Albertans might not be too proud of and fancy leaving. I can't say this for sure as I haven't looked at their platform in detail and that would be unfair, but from what I've seen of them, albeit it not much, I don't like what I'm seeing. What I can say with some certainty is that we very well could be facing a major change of direction in this Province's political operation, I just hope we don't turn right when we should be turning left.

Well its just prejudice if you haven't looked at their platform isn't it? Consistent with what is taught in schools, in universities, Wildrose will create statutes that support proven economic policies. I think their platform is fantastic, safe for the freedom of speech thing.

And the fact their leader is a woman, an extra bonus - it doesn't matter what the candidate's demographics are at all to me, and I would rather see a politician get elected because of their ideas instead of their heritage or gender, I think Alberta can achieve this feat of a female premier the right way.

240glt Dec 21, 2009 2:42 PM

Smith is heavy on economic policy. The province's future lies in a vigorous oil-and-gas sector and a vigorous agriculture sector. Staking a future on nanotechnology or the knowledge economy is "silly" -- except when new technology can help the oil and gas industry, she says. On global warming, she's a skeptic, sort of, but says an energy-efficiency strategy is just basically a good idea.

...


"Individuals and non-profit groups are the first line of support for underprivileged Albertans," Smith says.

...

That tension between the social conservatives and libertarians -- Smith considers herself part of the latter group -- is one of her biggest challenges. So far she mostly refuses to discuss "issues that divide," such as gay rights and abortion

...

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...934/story.html

Wooster Dec 21, 2009 2:55 PM

What concerns me most about the WAP platform is the language around "school choice legislation". Sounds an awful lot like drastically expanding private schools in Alberta (thereby inevitably weakening the public system).

Other statements about more autonomy for municipalities and true sustainable funding for cities is more encouraging.

I agree that their platform on their website is mostly boiler plate and is without much useful detail or actually policy stances. I'm sure this is by design.

Airboy Dec 21, 2009 6:13 PM

The issues I have with the WA is as stated before by others, they are not responding to a number of issues (social) as well the list of Ms Smith backers. I would like to see a full platform before I make my final judgement. That said the minute we remove the PC's from power we will see the same thing that happened at the national level. The PC old guard will become come WA and we will get the same old crap. As it is there are a number of old Conservative and Social Credit leading this party.

Alberta was once the most progressive province in the country; we have lost that during the last 20 years.

240glt Jan 4, 2010 5:14 PM

Calgary-area MLAs set to defect to Wildrose

Quote:

Two Calgary-area Progressive Conservative MLAs in the Stelmach government are crossing the floor to join the upstart Wildrose Alliance, in what is the first set of defections from the Tory party during its 38-year reign over Alberta.

The Wildrose Alliance has called a press conference for today in the city where it will announce Airdrie-Chestermere Tory MLA Rob Anderson and Calgary-Fish Creek PC MLA Heather Forsyth are abandoning the Tories to join the right-of-centre party led by Danielle Smith
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...189/story.html


This positively reeks of political opportunism, but it's clear that many Alberta politicians have no shame whatsoever.

I cannot wait until the WRA is forced to reveal their true platform and agenda. I also wish the media would stop referring to them as 'right of centre'... it's pretty clear who the Calgary tabloids are throwing their support behind.

eternallyme Jan 4, 2010 6:06 PM

If the Wildrose Alliance continues to grow, the Liberals may also benefit in Edmonton and central Calgary if they can take advantage of PC-WAP vote splits (in rural Alberta and outlying parts of Calgary, WAP would win outright)

I doubt the PC's will fall to Official Opposition status - they have a much better chance IMO of dropping even farther. If they remain this much behind the WAP, they would be reduced to 3rd party status even if they poll slightly ahead of the Liberals, since they would lose on a lot of splits.

Airboy Jan 4, 2010 6:12 PM

See above comment.

Politician

a seeker or holder of public office, who is more concerned about winning favor or retaining power than about maintaining principles.

"Politicks is the science of good sense, applied to public affairs, and, as those are forever changing, what is wisdom to-day would be folly and perhaps, ruin to-morrow. Politicks is not a science so properly as a business. It cannot have fixed principles, from which a wise man would never swerve, unless the inconstancy of men's view of interest and the capriciousness of the tempers could be fixed." [Fisher Ames (1758–1808)]

lubicon Jan 4, 2010 6:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240glt (Post 4633810)
Calgary-area MLAs set to defect to Wildrose



http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...189/story.html


This positively reeks of political opportunism, but it's clear that many Alberta politicians have no shame whatsoever.
I cannot wait until the WRA is forced to reveal their true platform and agenda. I also wish the media would stop referring to them as 'right of centre'... it's pretty clear who the Calgary tabloids are throwing their support behind.

This is not just an Alberta occurence. I don't mind a politician crossing the floor, but the law should be chagned so that a by election must be called within 6 months of this happening to give the people a chance to voice their opinion.

MalcolmTucker Jan 4, 2010 8:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lubicon (Post 4633944)
This is not just an Alberta occurence. I don't mind a politician crossing the floor, but the law should be chagned so that a by election must be called within 6 months of this happening to give the people a chance to voice their opinion.

So, should someone kicked out of caucus be held to the same thing? They weren't elected as an independent, they are no longer representing the platform they were originally elected on. In the end just strengthens the party leaders' hands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternallyme (Post 4633878)
If the Wildrose Alliance continues to grow, the Liberals may also benefit in Edmonton and central Calgary if they can take advantage of PC-WAP vote splits (in rural Alberta and outlying parts of Calgary, WAP would win outright)

I doubt the PC's will fall to Official Opposition status - they have a much better chance IMO of dropping even farther. If they remain this much behind the WAP, they would be reduced to 3rd party status even if they poll slightly ahead of the Liberals, since they would lose on a lot of splits.

Yeah, the three way split will be good for the Liberals. If the PCs are able to keep the battles up in the cities, the Liberals could even sneak up the middle, or end up with the balance of power in a minority.

lubicon Jan 5, 2010 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby (Post 4634092)
So, should someone kicked out of caucus be held to the same thing? They weren't elected as an independent, they are no longer representing the platform they were originally elected on. In the end just strengthens the party leaders' hands.
.

I'll amend my thoughts. If you voluntarily quit then you should have to resign your seat and have a by election. If you are forced out of caucus you can always sit as an independant. You could also resign if you so choose and force a by election.

MalcolmTucker Jan 5, 2010 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lubicon (Post 4635935)
I'll amend my thoughts. If you voluntarily quit then you should have to resign your seat and have a by election. If you are forced out of caucus you can always sit as an independant. You could also resign if you so choose and force a by election.

What if the leader goes crazy, refuses to resign, and the LG rightly cannot dismiss him or her (theory of responsible government et al). If government members all resign from caucus, shouldn't they have a right to reform a new government if they have the majority of seats? Or should there be an election?

Personally I think that while members of legislatures are elected to represent the people, that it is important to not overemphasize 'representation' vs leadership and acting in the best interest of the people according to the representatives view.

Getting rid of floor crossing is just a slippery slope to recall, direct democracy and the end of the principle of responsible government (needing to maintain the confidence of the house, leader of government appointed being able to carry a majority of members of the house).


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