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-   -   Rose Quarter Redevelopment (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=152548)

JordanL May 12, 2009 5:12 PM

You guys all realize that the MC doesn't even come close to meeting current building codes, right? If the city doesn't "fix" that, it's only a matter of time until they get sued by someone who wants the thing torn down.

WonderlandPark May 12, 2009 7:15 PM

The Oregonian states it quite well why a "Power & Light" does not work there and will not work here. All along I have thought this was bad, bad. It is such a poor fit for Portland. High rents, chain stores, sterile corporate theme "architecture." Save it for somewhere else.:yuck:

pdxhome May 12, 2009 8:06 PM

There was another article in today's DJC about this deal.

Here is the link:

http://www.djcoregon.com/articleDeta...uarter-redevel

RED_PDXer May 13, 2009 7:33 AM

I think this has whole discussion is being pushed by the streetcar project which just got funded. Regardless, this Live district seems like an appropriate companion to the Lloyd Center mall.. they'll become the two of a handful of places I will never patronize. Unfortunately, I work in the middle of this growing mess, at least until our lease is up in a few years.

Okstate May 13, 2009 4:24 PM

One person on the Oregonian comments said something interesting (not saying I agree with it but want to know what you guys think) He said we already have a half-corporate, high rent, master planned development downtown in the Brewery Blocks. Their massive success could show Portland would support another development similar just on a larger scale where the "downtowners" & "Bridge & tunnel" crowd can be together.

JordanL May 13, 2009 5:08 PM

You know, I'd also like to point out that while "the old guard" wil hold their nose and stomp their feet, declaring their intention to not be within half a mile of such a corporate, disgusting display of capitalism white washing... a LOT of the people under 25 in Portland spend a lot of time at both Lloyd Center and places like the Saturday Market.

I think for a lot of the younger people, or at least the one's that I know, there is no choosing between "Portland" and "corporate" environments. They like spending time at both.

PacificNW May 13, 2009 5:18 PM

JordanL: I agree...

pylon May 13, 2009 6:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WonderlandPark (Post 4245870)
The Oregonian states it quite well why a "Power & Light" does not work there and will not work here. All along I have thought this was bad, bad. It is such a poor fit for Portland. High rents, chain stores, sterile corporate theme "architecture." Save it for somewhere else.:yuck:

"Power & Light". "Kicked-back & Green" might be a more appropriate name for this project in our fair city. I'm sure the creative minds on this board can come up with some excellent alternative names instead of P&L. Just changing the name of the project in itself could help reduce the commodity feeling of the Cordish franchise concept.

I'll probably never find myself there, unless they break with their corporate formula and open something like, say, an Oregon-themed Brit pub called "Ye Olde Fetid Beaver", but there is a part of the public that doesn't even notice/care that they're indulging in "corporate-ness". I don't want to be a taste-Nazi ("no corporate for you") and deny them their fun. I think one of the most important things is that the project actually works.

JordanL May 13, 2009 7:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pylon (Post 4247908)
"Power & Light". "Kicked-back & Green" might be a more appropriate name for this project in our fair city. I'm sure the creative minds on this board can come up with some excellent alternative names instead of P&L. Just changing the name of the project in itself could help reduce the commodity feeling of the Cordish franchise concept.

I'll probably never find myself there, unless they break with their corporate formula and open something like, say, an Oregon-themed Brit pub called "Ye Olde Fetid Beaver", but there is a part of the public that doesn't even notice/care that they're indulging in "corporate-ness". I don't want to be a taste-Nazi ("no corporate for you") and deny them their fun. I think one of the most important things is that the project actually works.

Can someone explain "corporate"? It seems to be a catchall phrase for "things I don't like doing".

brandonpdx May 13, 2009 11:06 PM

In the context of this discussion to me corporate means a place of business that you can find in many other cities across the US. Something that is not unique to the region. A place where most dollars spent go to pockets outside of the local community and thus are not reinvested in the local community as much as a dollar spent at a locally owned business.

urbanlife May 14, 2009 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonpdx (Post 4248497)
In the context of this discussion to me corporate means a place of business that you can find in many other cities across the US. Something that is not unique to the region. A place where most dollars spent go to pockets outside of the local community and thus are not reinvested in the local community as much as a dollar spent at a locally owned business.

thus refers to the phrase "Anywhere, USA."

bvpcvm May 14, 2009 1:15 AM

corporate means "designed by committee to offend the least number of people possible while appealing to the absolute lowest common denominator".

JordanL May 14, 2009 3:37 AM

So:

- Any national retailer
- Any district which uses design principals in place elsewhere in the country
- Any common entertainment options (movies, restaraunts, etc.)

Are corporate.

And thus undesirable?

The dollars flowing out of the region I understand, but that's because we do such a poor job of enticing dollars into the region. I'd be pretty protectionist in that environment as well.

So what I'm gathering is that an "acceptable" proposal would include:

- A streetcar connection
- Some kind of museum/display of the MC
- The relocation of well known local retailers
---This might include McMinnemans, Red Light, Powell's, etc.
- Maybe a heritage center as well?
- Maybe relocating a locally owned kareoke bar?
- Maybe moving one of the brewpubs from downtown?

Is that more along the lines of what you guys are thinking? I'm not really excited about a "Portland Live" type project, but I'm having trouble deciding if I like the alternatives better because the most anyone has said is "not corporate", and that's a very, very poor description.

Does this list hit somewhere close to what people are looking for? Because it kind of sounds like someone describing the Pearl District to me.

bvpcvm May 14, 2009 4:10 AM

well, that's probably not too far off, but i think the main thing would be:

no chili's
no red robin
no azteca
no fuddrucker's
NO APPLEBEE's
etc

JordanL May 14, 2009 4:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvpcvm (Post 4249073)
well, that's probably not too far off, but i think the main thing would be:

no chili's
no red robin
no azteca
no fuddrucker's
NO APPLEBEE's
etc

Okay, so I'm not opposed to any of that, but I gotta ask... this basically just duplicates:

Hawthorne
The Pearl District
Twenty Third

So... why?

I don't really like any of those places you named, but... why do we need another district just like all our other shopping/entertainment districts?

urbanlife May 14, 2009 5:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JordanL (Post 4249100)
Okay, so I'm not opposed to any of that, but I gotta ask... this basically just duplicates:

Hawthorne
The Pearl District
Twenty Third

So... why?

I don't really like any of those places you named, but... why do we need another district just like all our other shopping/entertainment districts?

of course, I am fully aware I am not the target audience for the Live! Entertainment District.

65MAX May 14, 2009 7:10 AM

I don't understand the anti-corporate argument. Very few of the products we buy are made here in Oregon, but we still buy them from Home Depot or Target or Fred Meyer or Safeway. If an outside company thinks they can be successful here, they'll open shop and hire local people, lots of them. Then those wages help bolster the local economy. What's wrong with that?

JordanL May 14, 2009 7:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanlife (Post 4249200)
of course, I am fully aware I am not the target audience for the Live! Entertainment District.

Well, I wasn't saying that it was a bad thing, I just didn't follow the logic on why we wanted to duplicate the districts we already have.

pylon May 14, 2009 2:03 PM

I believe Nike was planning on having some kind of store/facility in the Live! complex. It'd be cool if they would also add a LAIKA animation studios (owned by Phil) component to it somehow- so that Live! wouldn't be strictly sports oriented. Seems like it would broaden the appeal and help advertise.

pdxf May 14, 2009 5:15 PM

I like the LAIKA thought...

It would be cool if the MC could be repurposed as LAIKA studios and an 'Oregon Film Center' to further Portland's movie exposure. Put in some cinema space, create some offices and studios, maybe some leasable incubator space for new animators/producers, etc... I'm not sure where LAIKA is at with there campus planning though, and if they are still moving to the burbs?

You could create a central atrium, and have and a ramp that circulates through the space (rather guggenheimish), providing access to theaters and cinema space, restaurants, museums, etc.. Have offices and studios along the outer edge of the bowl...


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