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-   -   Rose Quarter Redevelopment (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=152548)

pdxf Apr 15, 2009 6:26 AM

This is where the stadium should be:
 
I'm totally in favor of the MLS and a new baseball stadium, but have become troubled by the demolition of the Memorial Coliseum. It would seem as though there is a fantastic location for a new stadium that is being ignored - The parking lots and unused space at OMSI.

The advantages of this site are:
Located on the new Max line
Views of the city
No demolition of the MC necessary!
All land is public (I believe), and doesn't require any demolition
Existing attractions at OMSI
Great waterfront location
Enough room to expand the stadium in the future to MLB standards

I'm not sure if any considerations for other locations are still on the table, but this is my vote (yeah, sorry for the bad sketch!):

I created a page for the OMSI proposal: here

http://www.liquidosity.com/stadiumplan.jpg

scleeb Apr 15, 2009 6:50 AM

It's a novel idea, and worth considering. However the momentum for the Rose Quarter seems unstoppable. Incidentally, your render is superb psxf. Nice work!

tworivers Apr 15, 2009 7:03 AM

Isn't the Big Pipe project there until 2011?

zilfondel Apr 15, 2009 7:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tworivers (Post 4196258)
Thanks for the report! Much appreciated.

Did you specifically hear that they may try to demolish MC within a month or two?

no. but their timeline is very, very short.. the deadline Sam mentioned was to identify a site, not tear it down - but buildings have a tendency to disappear when you least expect it. :shrug:

zilfondel Apr 15, 2009 7:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxf (Post 4196314)
I'm totally in favor of the MLS and a new baseball stadium, but have become troubled by the demolition of the Memorial Colosium. It would seem as though there is a fantastic location for a new stadium that is being ignored - The parking lots and unused space at OMSI.

The advantages of this site are:
Located on the new Max line
Views of the city
No demolition of the MC necessary!
All land is public (I believe), and doesn't require any demolition
Existing attractions at OMSI
Great waterfront location
Enough room to expand the stadium in the future to MLB standards

I'm not sure if any considerations for other locations are still on the table, but this is my vote (yeah, sorry for the bad sketch!):

http://www.liquidosity.com/stadiumplan.jpg

Hey, this is great! Love the sketch and the idea for a stadium. The only problem I can think of is that the streetcar is going to branch off from the bridge and somewhere cross over the train tracks on its own bridge - don't know exactly where/how much space there is, but I wouldn't be surprised it would all still fit. Also, Big Pipe. But, since they want a dirt field for baseball, shouldn't be a big deal once it is finished. The stadium won't be much more than some bleachers and a field.

urbanlife Apr 15, 2009 8:27 AM

I strongly think the new ballpark should stay near downtown, but I do think the city council has been too quick to pick where they wanted the new park...it seems like there was a lack of study on this other than the old Rose Quarter or Lents study. So far there is a good 5 sites near downtown that could be used.

Though, I still cant see the point in tearing out the bowl of the MC and readjusting the building's function for another use. Once the bowl is gone, the building loses its original characteristic and becomes the "I remember when the MC use to look like this." which is no different than "I remember when the MC use to stand next to the Rose Garden." Once a massive change is made to the building, it will lose its original integrity.

sowat Apr 15, 2009 2:02 PM

lengthy article in the Oregonian last night if anyone missed it...

Portland's accelerated MLS plan leaves little time for public debate
by Ryan Frank and Mark Larabee, The Oregonian
Tuesday April 14, 2009, 8:32 PM

Mayor Sam Adams is pushing City Hall at light speed to endorse a more than $250 million plan to rehab PGE Park, revamp the Rose Quarter and tear down Memorial Coliseum so the city can add a Major League Soccer team and an entertainment district.

The question from others on the City Council and community leaders: Why is Adams moving so fast?

The answer is logistical and political.

full article:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i..._major_le.html

pdxf Apr 15, 2009 2:53 PM

A few nots about my OMSI proposal:
-The big dig is going on there, however the main construction area (the hole) would be south of the stadium (basically where the 'Max' label is), so potentially both could coexist.

-I'm not sure of the alignments of the streetcar and Max, but it seems as though since they are in the planning stages, those ideas could be worked out. The site is actually a little tight from my quick studies (for the MLB size stadium, which would come at some point down the road), but I think fitting everything in could be workable.

-Transit issues: I believe the Max wouldn't be built until 2015, so there would be a couple years without good light rail service. Maybe we can set up a water taxi system until then!

pylon Apr 15, 2009 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilfondel (Post 4196384)
But, since they want a dirt field for baseball, shouldn't be a big deal once it is finished. The stadium won't be much more than some bleachers and a field.

That's the really sad part... tearing down the MC for only this.

jaxg8r1 Apr 15, 2009 3:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tworivers (Post 4196258)
Thanks for the report! Much appreciated.

Did you specifically hear that they may try to demolish MC within a month or two?

I've always heard a demo date of early 2010. Although I doubt anything has been set in stone as of yet.

I'm personally sort of indifferent about MC (either tearing it down or keeping it). I've been to a couple of events there, and while it seemed kind of cool it did have a "smell" inside. Maybe it just needs some love and better moisture barriers...

I'm curious to know what could potentially go on a site like that. It seems "blockaded" in between I-5, the Rose Garden, Broadway and Interstate Ave/Railroad Tracks. Nothing screams walkable/neighborhood about this location, so it might as well be a new stadium. And unless we bury any of the transportation infrastructure in the area, none of this is likely to change.

Although there have been some interesting and thought provoking points on both sides of the debate.... :cheers:

jaxg8r1 Apr 15, 2009 3:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxf (Post 4196314)
I'm totally in favor of the MLS and a new baseball stadium, but have become troubled by the demolition of the Memorial Coliseum. It would seem as though there is a fantastic location for a new stadium that is being ignored - The parking lots and unused space at OMSI.

The advantages of this site are:
Located on the new Max line
Views of the city
No demolition of the MC necessary!
All land is public (I believe), and doesn't require any demolition
Existing attractions at OMSI
Great waterfront location
Enough room to expand the stadium in the future to MLB standards

I'm not sure if any considerations for other locations are still on the table, but this is my vote (yeah, sorry for the bad sketch!):

http://www.liquidosity.com/stadiumplan.jpg

Fascinating concept, and if this is your idea of a bad sketch then you must be really talented. :D

jaxg8r1 Apr 15, 2009 3:47 PM

I've always thought (and not necessarily for baseball) but that the Lloyd Center movie theater parking lot (next to the park) would be a good site for something large. Seems like far too good a location for its current use...

pdxf Apr 15, 2009 4:15 PM

OMSI Site Plan
 
I'm kind of sucked into this OMSI idea, so here is another sketch...
I wanted to make sure everything could fit on the OMSI site, so here is a quick site plan (stadium plan and scale came from the pre-existing stadium proposals, and is a MLB sized park, although initially it would only be sized for AAA):

I created a page for the OMSI proposal: here

http://www.liquidosity.com/stadiumsiteplan.jpg

RoseCtyRoks Apr 15, 2009 5:00 PM

pdfx: Wow, you seriously need to be involved in these ballpark concepts, with your forward thinking and talent with the pencil!! There has to be at least 3 better options for the new ballpark site, including your OMSI idea. I'm afraid with the quick timeframe involving the MLS and AAA baseball, the city will move abruptly, and will raze the Memorial Coliseum without even batting an eye. (unless a historical status is placed in time)

The city claims that they're losing money year after year on the Coliseum--- revenue vs. the annual upkeep. Does anyone have any numbers showing validity of this? Undoubtedly, this factor along with the prompt need for the ballpark, is what could have the city making some misguided decisions, and hopefully, ones we won't all regret.

pdxhome Apr 15, 2009 5:36 PM

pdxf, I think your renderings are great, and they present in my mind another site that is at least worth considering. I saw your website, have you been able to get this idea in front of any decision makers?

Some other potential issues to consider with the OMSI location are traffic and parking. I believe the PCL requires that all ballparks provide a minimum 5,000 parking spaces in the immediate vicinity of the stadium and this number would likely be increased to 20,000 spaces for MLB. Also until transit is built, one would need to demonstrate that there are adequate transportation facilities to handle 4,000 – 5,000 vehicles entering and leaving the area (15,000-25,000 if it were MLB). Unfortunately there is not a great route to I-5 northbound or southbound or I-84 from the OMSI location. These are not impossible to work out, but would need attention.

Regarding a comment that was made earlier. I just wanted to share that a AAA baseball stadium can be much more that just “bleachers and a field.” In fact some of the best ballparks I have been to in the country have been minor league stadiums. I would refer you to Franklin Covey Field in Salt Lake City or Autozone Park in Memphis. Both these stadiums have a context sensitive design that enhances the overall baseball watching experience.

There is probably an option out there that could create a context sensitive AAA baseball field at the MC site and that can integrate the architectural elegance and history of the MC. Some ideas that have been suggested are re-using materials from the MC. Demolishing the MC doesn’t mean we have to forget about it forever.

jaxg8r1 Apr 15, 2009 5:48 PM

Not sure if this is important, but would the Markam bridge block downtown views from this site? (Or am I imagining this in the incorrect location?)

scottyboi Apr 15, 2009 5:57 PM

yes...the bridge and OMSI itself would seem to block any views...maybe this would be a good excuse to finally knock down that fugly bridge!

PacificNW Apr 15, 2009 5:58 PM

I don't think MLB, or PCL, would accept this particular playing field layout. I think the view of downtown would be off their table if the stadium was placed at the OMSI location. They are pretty rigid on what direction homeplate, the pitcher mound, and outfield all face. Could the stadium be turned to accommodate their specs? Is there enough space? Great drawings, btw.

pdxf Apr 15, 2009 6:02 PM

I think the biggest issue with the OMSI site is the auto access, hopefully it could be something that can be overcome. Parking I don't think is too big of an issue, there is a lot of available land over there, but getting the autos to the stadium could present some challenges.

I haven't gotten this idea in front of any policy makers. I've been thinking about the OMSI site for a couple of months, but I didn't get around to sketching it out until last night (since it looks like the MC is headed for the wrecking ball). Since the feedback on this was pretty positive, I quickly drew up the site plan and made a quick website to post those on.

I definitely wouldn't mind if this spread to those who can at least get it into consideration. Feel free to spread the link to this thread, or to the site I created. If anyone else is interested in the idea, feel free to email the information to any of the local architecture bloggers, city commissioners, etc...

pdxf Apr 15, 2009 6:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PacificNW (Post 4196999)
I don't think MLB, or PCL, would accept this particular playing field layout. I think the view of downtown would be off their table if the stadium was placed at the OMSI location. They are pretty rigid on what direction homeplate, the pitcher mound, and outfield all face. Could the stadium be turned to accommodate their specs? Is there enough space? Great drawings, btw.

The stadium fits with other possible orientations. I just looked at other stadiums for orientation, but I'm no expert. My preferred orientation was openning towards the river, but it seemed like a southerly orientation is bad for baseball.

The I-5 bridge is slated for demolition in 2020, so that is a short term concern (just kidding, I can dream though). OMSI probably will take most of the view, but I would think that there would be some good views of SOWA and the West Hills. There is a site to the south of the Opera building which would offer better views, but it's all private land so that would add some complication.


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