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-   -   Rose Quarter Redevelopment (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=152548)

twofiftyfive Mar 26, 2009 9:11 PM

Here's what gets me when people compare (possibly) demolishing Memorial Coliseum to, say, razing the Portland Hotel or the cast iron buildings on 1st Ave.

I doubt there's an architect/construction firm in Portland that could give us a replica of those 19th century buildings we destroyed. The art of building like that has simply been lost. But (short of a crippling energy crisis) I can't foresee a future where we would be unable to build something just like Memorial Coliseum. Does that mean we should level it? Not necessarily, but comparing it to some of the crimes of the postwar era is disingenuous.

NewUrbanist Mar 31, 2009 9:33 PM

The Blanchard site is huge, but where will the funding to come to either construct a new building for the PPS district or move them to a new building? Those administrative types are not necessarily mass transit riders -I know an HR rep there who said his coworkers grumble about walking across the parking lot. With the current state of the PPS budget, I think we should consider private investors purchasing this site rather than assuming that they will be gifted a clean site and property while also expecting the city to foot the bill on moving them.

Crazy expectations. I wonder if the city isn't ready for this type of development work. While we are dreaming, why not build the new tallest over the ballpark with it's underside a faux sky that drizzles on hot days and provides warming sun on winter days. How about an indoor ski training center at memorial coliseum. People are losing their homes and jobs, and we want to talk about demolishing numerous relatively young buildings purchased with tax payer money for subsidized private development.

Also, the city should expect that this private property be zoned public space. Otherwise we will have just created an outdoor mall.

zilfondel Mar 31, 2009 10:19 PM

Go rent some square footage downtown; I thought the Standard Insurance Building is going to have some major vacancy due to the law firm moving to the Fox Tower? Maybe the Lloyd District is cheaper.

Who cares what the administrators think? They are public employees! Why are they so privileged to get their own parking space? What a great use of my tax money!

JordanL Mar 31, 2009 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilfondel (Post 4170001)
Go rent some square footage downtown; I thought the Standard Insurance Building is going to have some major vacancy due to the law firm moving to the Fox Tower? Maybe the Lloyd District is cheaper.

Who cares what the administrators think? They are public employees! Why are they so privileged to get their own parking space? What a great use of my tax money!

1. They are looking to sell BESC because it's close to downtown where rent is high. They are trying to move AWAY from the ridiculous rent for space that could realistically be placed anywhere in the city.

2. They are interested in working closer with MESD (Multnomah Education Services District) which has more of their offices on the east side and near Clackamas.

3. The walking the HR rep was talking about has to do with the fact that there are almost 3/4 as many parking spaces as there are employees, not with "I don't like walking". Then the city comes through and tickets employees for parking places their not supposed to, which because of the Rose Garden can literally force some employees to park over half a mile from BESC.

4. The idea right now is that PPS wants to sell BESC and use the proceeds from the sale to move into a smaller, less expensive location.

5. Part of the parking issue is that there are plenty of "on site" service workers that have to check in at BESC, but are required to all own and individually drive vehicles because they travel to school sites to perform work. "Let them eat cake" is ridiculous and sophomoric in this situation.

PS: Very few of the people "employed" at BESC are administrators in the sense you're thinking of. Many are employed there but perform real labor, such as those in the IT department that maintain the servers/do call center support, or perform maintenance in school buildings around the district.

PPS: All of this information comes from personal experience. I worked for PPS at BESC for two years.

stan Mar 31, 2009 11:18 PM

I don't know what vacancies in the Lloyd District looks like, but it seems like it would be the most logical place to either rent space or to build a new building. It has decent mass transit and fairly easy to access from all part of the metro area.

Anybody know why PPS built BESC at its current location? The area is desolate enough now, I can't imagine what it was like post Albina urban renewal.

MarkDaMan Apr 1, 2009 1:57 AM

^Programming needs, they have the large central kitchen, a storage warehouse, other departments as Jordan mentioned such as the main engineering shop; and other PPS employees use BESC as their 'check in office' because they don't have a home school.

Standard Insurance wouldn't work, too expensive for one, and what about the central kitchen and shop?

They need a campus style arrangement, but I don't see why Swan Island couldn't accommodate them, or better yet, they have a bunch of empty property, schools that have been closed, and can renovate and add onto the property.

I've been trying to point out, like NewUrbanist, the BESC has so much value (like the Post Office) that its going to take some big pockets, and a big project/development, before anything happens.

designpdx Apr 8, 2009 12:33 AM

Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 2:14pm PDT | Modified: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 5:22pm
On deck: Memorial Coliseum demolition
Portland Business Journal

Mayor Sam Adams on Tuesday said Memorial Coliseum’s days are numbered.

But that’s about the only thing that's certain after two days of conceptual planning for a redeveloped Rose Quarter.

Officials with the Portland Trail Blazers, representatives of Portland Beavers owner Merritt Paulson, the Portland Development Commission and others spent the past two days working to meld the Trail Blazers desire to build a live entertainment district at the Rose Quarter with Paulson’s plans to build a new baseball stadium there.

What they have come up with so far is a series of designs, all of which incorporate a baseball stadium with home plate closest to Broadway Boulevard facing toward the downtown skyline. The concepts also included variations on an entertainment district that would include retail shopping, restaurants, an interactive Nike exhibit, and potentially a small, 200-room hotel.

The concepts require the demolition of the Memorial Coliseum, a development that Adams said he didn’t want to come as a surprise to the community. He said veterans would be consulted in the process.

With work yet to come, Adams called the initial collaboration a sign of action after years of dormant planning.

“There have been many plans for this district over the years, but very little action,” Adams said. “Now’s the time for action.”

The planning workshop will continue this week.

Next Tuesday, the city is hosting an open house from 6-8 p.m. at the Leftbank Project, 240 N. Broadway Blvd., where the public can give input on the results of the workshop.

Ultimately, a final design will come before the City Council on April 21, Adams said.

The urgency of the design process comes largely from the city’s plan to redevelop PGE Park — the Beavers’ current home – to host a Major League Soccer franchise that will start play in 2011.

That plan includes building a $55 million baseball stadium for the Beavers on the site of Memorial Coliseum in time for the 2011 season.

But Trail Blazers officials have balked, airing concerns that a Rose Quarter baseball stadium could hamper the NBA franchise’s redevelopment plans. Among the concerns was the potential loss of critical parking structures and the team’s office building.

J. Isaac, the team’s senior vice president of business affairs, lauded the efforts thus far.

“We at least now understand what each other’s needs are,” Isaac said.

But challenges remain. The concepts thus far still would remove the team’s offices and potentially the parking structures.

Adams said those issues are being worked out, and solutions could include adding levels to the parking structures.

The city is still working to fill gaps in the financing of the stadium projects. Financial projections for the Rose Quarter development, Adams said, aren’t part of the design process under way the past two days.

bvpcvm Apr 8, 2009 12:37 AM

Broadway "Boulevard"? Is it really so hard to get the names right? That's even worse than Henry's 12th "Street" Tavern. Ugh.

tworivers Apr 8, 2009 2:12 AM

Yeah, that is truly pathetic journalism.

And Adams is looking less and less like the "design mayor" every day.

MightyAlweg Apr 8, 2009 8:45 AM

Very interesting that they are going for the Live! entertainment mall plan. The LA Live! here in SoCal near the Los Angeles Convention Center is coming together nicely and has really livened up the area there. Personally, I'm just thrilled with a new Trader Vics to have Mai Tai's at when I go to the Auto Show!

But a Portland Live! mall with some big restaurants and such, like Trader Vics, Flemings Steakhouse, Lawry's Carvery, ESPNZone, Wolfgang Puck, etc. will do wonders for the convention trade for Portland.

http://www.lalive.com/index.php

zilfondel Apr 8, 2009 9:04 AM

blah

bvpcvm Apr 8, 2009 2:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyAlweg (Post 4184075)
Very interesting that they are going for the Live! entertainment mall plan. The LA Live! here in SoCal near the Los Angeles Convention Center is coming together nicely and has really livened up the area there. Personally, I'm just thrilled with a new Trader Vics to have Mai Tai's at when I go to the Auto Show!

But a Portland Live! mall with some big restaurants and such, like Trader Vics, Flemings Steakhouse, Lawry's Carvery, ESPNZone, Wolfgang Puck, etc. will do wonders for the convention trade for Portland.

http://www.lalive.com/index.php

Just wondering. The names of those restaurants mean pretty much nothing to me, but looking at the web site, I can't imagine that they're anything other than fancy Olive Gardens. Are they?

I suppose if something like this manages to enliven that area, then that's positive, but it doesn't look like a place I'd spend much time.

cab Apr 8, 2009 2:14 PM

I don't have a problem with this Live thingy in that location because it will basically bleed the convention crowds. I think those who want a real urban experience will continue to MAX it DT but those who feel more comfortable in the safe, clone retail experience will have a place to go now. Options are always good.

smendesPDX Apr 8, 2009 5:34 PM

This project feels very un-portland. I hope if it does happen, they can really work with our local feel and architecture to make something that doesnt feel alien to us Portlanders.

bugsy Apr 8, 2009 7:58 PM

You Guys Are So Boring, Geez. Can We For A Change Not Have To Go Mountain Climbing Or Trail Walking To Have Fun In This Area?? Ive Been A Portlander All My Life And This Idea Will Give The City With More Choices To Do. You Dont Like It, Dont Go There. Now We Can At Least Take Out Of Town Guests To Something More Fun.

Its About Time We Catch Up With The Other Metropolitans Of The Country By Bringing Entertainment To This City.

urbanlife Apr 8, 2009 7:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smendesPDX (Post 4184633)
This project feels very un-portland. I hope if it does happen, they can really work with our local feel and architecture to make something that doesnt feel alien to us Portlanders.

yeah, I could care less about Live, but then again, I am not its target audience...but then that makes me wonder who the audience will be, it will definitely cut out a large number of Portlanders that have no interest in this...but on the other hand would be something that would probably sell well with people who are going to the convention center or suburban people coming in for a game.

I am holding off making any final judgments on all of this until I see the designs...:sly:

urbanlife Apr 8, 2009 8:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugsy (Post 4184879)
You Guys Are So Boring, Geez. Can We For A Change Not Have To Go Mountain Climbing Or Trail Walking To Have Fun In This Area?? Ive Been A Portlander All My Life And This Idea Will Give The City With More Choices To Do. You Dont Like It, Dont Go There. Now We Can At Least Take Out Of Town Guests To Something More Fun.

Its About Time We Catch Up With The Other Metropolitans Of The Country By Bringing Entertainment To This City.

first off, I am very impressed, every word starts with a capital letter....but if that is the only fun things you can find to do in this city, then I suggest you should really look at your city again or travel more to understand what you really have....I have been in alot of cities in this country and Portland is by far one of the best middle sized cities that often times gets grouped in with major cities because of the amount of activity we have going on here.

But then again, something like this might be up your alley...who knows.

NewUrbanist Apr 8, 2009 8:11 PM

City wants to raze Memorial Coliseum
Rose Quarter - A plan calls for building a Triple A ballpark while revitalizing the area

Wednesday, April 08, 2009
MARK LARABEE
The Oregonian Staff
The city plans to demolish Memorial Coliseum to make way for a new Triple A baseball park and will consider razing offices and a parking garage as part of a plan to redevelop the Rose Quarter, Mayor Sam Adams said Tuesday.

That's the outcome of a two-day planning marathon among city officials, the Portland Trail Blazers and representatives for Merritt Paulson's Peregrine LLC, the company formed to bring Major League Soccer to Portland and build a new baseball stadium for Paulson's Portland Beavers.

The group's charge was to find a way to build the baseball park while revitalizing the moribund Rose Quarter.

The Blazers want a covered entertainment district that they hope will bring millions of visitors to the area every night of the week. The district could include retail shops, bars and restaurants, as well as office spaces and a boutique hotel. Other options include a 2,500-seat concert venue and an interactive sports museum sponsored by Nike.

The idea is to create synergy between the Rose Quarter and the Oregon Convention Center, the nearby Lloyd District and other properties along Broadway.

The plan, announced at a news conference, is a turnaround of sorts for the relationship between the Blazers and Paulson's group. J.E. Isaac, a Blazers vice president, spoke against the baseball stadium idea when the City Council moved ahead with the deal last month. Isaac cited worries that the stadium could push aside the entertainment district and leave the Rose Quarter stuck in its decades-old rut.

Now everyone is working together, but Memorial Coliseum will have to come down to make it work, Adams said.

The roll-your-sleeves-up approach felt a little like a rush job because it is.

Adams said he wanted to bring a design concept to the City Council on April 21 as part of a predevelopment agreement with Paulson. Paulson and the city have until Sept. 1 to complete a detailed financial plan for renovating PGE Park for Major League Soccer and building the new baseball stadium. The Beavers need to be out of PGE Park by 2011, when the Portland Timbers move to the big league.

The group is working on several designs, some of which also call for the demolition of the Blazers office building and one or more of the city-owned garages in the quarter, which the city is still paying off.

Adams said they haven't delved into the stickier issue of financing all these big ideas. The financing of the baseball park and soccer stadium, estimated at $88.8 million including city-backed bonds and redevelopment money, hasn't been nailed down yet.

No one has looked at how much the entertainment district or any of the other elements would cost. But officials said they would be phased in over at least the next seven to 10 years and probably will require some taxpayer money. The city will hold a public meeting to discuss the plans next Tuesday from 6 to 8 p.m. at the Left Bank Building, 240 N. Broadway.

Mark Larabee: 503-294-7664; marklarabee@news.oregonian.com

tworivers Apr 8, 2009 8:19 PM

Call me "boring", but I don't want all that generic corporate crap right in the middle of Portland. And virtually all of my out-of-town guests over the years have wanted to experience what makes Portland special. No one has ever asked "Where's the nearest (insert name of establishment they've been to a million times in other cities)?" This has included family that I consider to be more in the conservative/mainstream/suburban demographic.

Many people worry about what our city will be like with the numbers of people forecast to move here, whether we'll turn into "another (insert city here)". This type of development will be a step in that direction, if it follows the same, or similar, model that it has in other cities. Of course, the Cordish people are saying that it will be tailored to Portland and are throwing around the Sustainable word as often as they can. I'm skeptical.

I don't think options are "always" good.

tworivers Apr 8, 2009 8:37 PM

Quote:

I doubt there's an architect/construction firm in Portland that could give us a replica of those 19th century buildings we destroyed. The art of building like that has simply been lost. But (short of a crippling energy crisis) I can't foresee a future where we would be unable to build something just like Memorial Coliseum. Does that mean we should level it? Not necessarily, but comparing it to some of the crimes of the postwar era is disingenuous.
Hey twofiftyfive, I just saw this and I'm pretty sure it was I who made the argument you're talking about. Just for the record, I wouldn't elevate the MC to the same level of significance as all the cast iron (etc) architecture Portland tore out for parking lots, and I see your point about our ability to build something similar today.

My point, though, was that the mindset of expendability and obsolescence is potentially similar, in my opinion. I just think we should take more care before we decide (in this case in the span of a few weeks) to demolish buildings that, at least to many people, carry architectural significance. I foresee people having the same kinds of discussions we are having about our "lost" early-twentieth-century architecture about the MC. "Wow, I can't believe that at the height of their reputation for sustainability and progressive thinking they tore down that cool representative of mid-twentieth-century architecture that we sure could make use of today and built a fake-urban corporate mall/baseball stadium instead."


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