Eastside, just to update you. The ramp is still open. According to the radio one of the neccessary peices of equipment didn't arrive so they couldn't open the new temporary ramp.

Okay, thanks for the update!

A mere 5-stories, yet touting the wonderful views from the upper floors?!? You have got to be kidding me LOL

It's a nice looking building and I am glad to FINALLY see some movement on the NGP, but they could do much better than this. :(

You have a point. Although I have thought that a building of similar stature to this project would have some nice views of the city if built in the Alison Hill region. The property to build it on would probably go pretty cheap too.

i was in harrisburg this weekend and theres still a crane up that was up like, 3 monthes ago when i was there and there still isnt anything above the skyline (from a west shore veiw) is whatevers being built ever gonna be part of the skyline?

As you looked from the west shore was it to the left of the Capital? If so that crane is doing work on the judical center at the Capital Complex. It won't be rising above the skyline. The reason it is there so long is the building has extensive stone work that must be lifted into place. The frame has been up for a long time (many months), but they are only about half to 3/4 of the way up with the masonary. The building will fit in very well with the surroundings.

Harrisburg Development Page
 

I have decided to document the status of major development projects in Harrisburg. To accomplish this, I have begun the Harrisburg Development Page. None of the information hosted there is new. It all has been recorded in press releases, newspaper articles, and public records. This information has not been consolidated into one place, until now! I plan to keep it updated, and I look forward to your tips for new or missed projects or updates. In the future, you’ll always find a link to it in my sidebar.

http://karnsquality.com/harrisburg-development-page/

WOW, what a cool site and thanks for sharing, yosh! Welcome aboard, and talk about an entrance! :)

I have added your site to the first page w/ the project rundown and credited you. If I forgot anything major on there, please let me know, everyone. You all are my eyes and ears, seeing as I don't live there anymore and go back twice a year (if that LOL). ;)

Space Crunch
 

This one isn't on the first page although it was referenced several times in the past on this thread.

This one also didn't make Pennlive.com

The business section of Patriot News has more information about the 36,000sq. ft. building to go on 3003 N. Front street. It is supposedly about to finalize leases for 78% of the building. Will have parking for 72 cars. The article claims that there is not a lot of space available to downtown development. I can't really agree with that. I can site several very promising spots right now. Probably not at a competitive price though. This building is one block North of where they wouldn't let Mary Knackstedt build the condos.

Reed is quoted as saying:

We're essentially out of land in downtown. This is a predicament we haven't had for 60 or 70 years.

He goes on to spout a bit about the Southern Gateway, and his desire to push downtown towards front and Paxton Streets. I guess it is time for me to buy properties on Washington Street and other South Front street properties.... heheh

Uh, what?!? Further proof that the Mayor is definitely losing it LOL There are TONS of parcels and opportunities left in DT. I mean come on, they even found one in a prime spot in the not too distant past to dump a freakin' crappy trailer on it and call it a "diner". :laugh:

One thing I absolutely despise about Harrisburg: many of the people don't live in reality, and like to fabricate the truth. To say, "We're essentially out of land in downtown. This is a predicament we haven't had for 60 or 70 years," is laughable at best.

Well easily available LARGE plots are gone. And with the obsinate council killing anything in the downtown area that destroys historic buildings I see that there is room running out. but there are several condemed buildings in the downtown that should be ripe for demolition and rebuilding. Not telling where they are at though.

That brings me to the historic areas of downtown. I realize that they were inacted to stabilize the neighborhood when the city was on hard times, but in some areas they should now allow reconsideration. I mean anything South of Forester along 2nd Street should be allowed to be rebuilt unless it has a specific architectural value. I can't think of too many along second that this applies to. Maybe the house part of the Belco building and the building on the corners of state street. I would oppose demolition of the senic side streets between 2nd and front as they have a nice neighborhood feel. I believe it is the best interest of the city to try to push the downtown development towards Cameron rather than towards the river.


Lets not forget the "diner" is on borrowed time. I hope that they don't have to wait on lease deals to secure the financing for the 212 tower.

Old Uptown development photos
 

Here are the photos of the Old Uptown development project I mentioned previously. Hope you guys like 'em!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3029/...d119d1c9d5.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2278/...614b3922bb.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2399/...482a4d79e5.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3021/...56d226e6f5.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2275/...59004bfdda.jpg

Btw, when I voted in the PA primary a month ago, I actually met Alex Hartzler, of WCI Partners. He seems like a real cool guy. I thanked him for his investment in Harrisburg [i.e. the Aloft Hotel and the Old Uptown project] and he was very modest and gracious about the projects. If Harrisburg had just a few more believers like Mr. Hartzler, I think we'd be on the fast track to great projects and even better development in the City.

Wow, what classy developments and they blend in quite nicely...I am impressed! :tup: Thanks for the pics, Chris. Do you happen to know what they are selling for?

Old Uptown development
 

The price rumors I've heard is $100,000 and up, but I'd like to verify that. They seem worth more than that, to me, but I haven't been inside the model yet. I do know that they are selling like crazy. As a matter of fact, the day I took the photos, there was only one unit not sold.

To me, this is proof that there is quite a demand for "quality" housing in the city. Too much of the available housing is in need of renovation and modernization. To the extent that buyers and developers can do that somewhat economically, then I think Midtown is a GREAT area to buy property. However, what is sad is the lack of empty building lots, like those that WCI Partners built on at Pfeffer and Green Sts. You have to take buildings down first and that is a hard sell to City Council.

Once you get west of Third Street, there are plenty of empty lots, but much of that is being developed by Struever Bros. of Baltimore, MD, and it is a completely different kind of development than the Old Uptown project. Struever Bros.' development is known as Capitol Heights and there is more of an emphasis on single family homes and more modest townhouses. Their website: http://www.sber.com/harrisburg/capitol_heights.php says they've sold and built 176 homes with 44 more on the way. Who knew Harrisburg was ready for that?!

My friend just bought a house on Penn street (not one of the new ones). He looked into the new Old Uptown houses and they were selling for $189,000 and up.

Old Uptown development
 

Thanks for the update, danwxman. I thought I'd heard that too, but wasn't sure that is right. I think that's a very respectable price, but its a lot knowing parking is on street. The ones at Capitol Heights at least have parking in the rear or a rear yard. I think the Old Uptown ones don't have either. Still, if you can get $190,000 then that also says good things about the City and the need for quality housing.

Actually, they each have a one-car parking garage around back. Take a walk behind the units sometime. Nice back decks as well. The houses around the corner on Delaware street are a bit smaller but totally rehabbed and going for less than $120,000. I think its a great deal.

Thanks for the info, guys! I'm actually a little surprised they are selling that high right out of the gate and this does say good things about the city for sure, considering that the property taxes in the city are very high in comparison to the surrounding 'burbs.

Midtown is a cool place, definitely up and coming and there certainly is A LOT of potential but it still needs some work before people totally buy into it. My sister lives on 4th near Harris and hearing gunshots is quite common during the summer, and her car has been vandalized a few times already. Also, like you said chris, the numerous vacant lots need to have something done with them.

But these are all things that can be fixed and I am happy to see the direction HBG is going in. A little too slow for my tastes, but small steps forward is definitely something! :tup:

Old Uptown development
 

I must thank you for your thorough knowledge of this subject and for correcting my inaccuracies. I should do a more thorough job of researching these things, obviously! :) I am now MORE impressed with these townhouses since they have parking and decks. I could not see paying 190- for something without off-street parking and/or a back yard and/or deck. Alex Hartzler strikes me as a class act: professional and earnest and WCI Partners seems to have those same qualities.

Here's an observation about Harrisburg, that may be a bit "controversial", but valid, I feel: since John Vartan's death, it seems that the City has moved forward much better and much bigger and with more diversity in regard to development. I believed that Vartan held us back, even though he did do a couple of interesting projects early on. Now, WCI Partners, Struever Bros. and others can get a fair shot at development in the City. Anyone else feel this way?

Chris,

I was not around the city in Vartan's days so I have no opinion, sorry. I drove by the new townhomes and they have nice backs and off street parking but no back yard. Honestly probably not something that someone buying in the city cares about though, and most new condo projects lack a propriety backyard too so that is competitive. The restored homes supposedly start in the low $100k and the new townhomes as reported above. Capital Heights starts in the $180's as well, but if you get any options (upgrades on kitchens, etc.) it will easily sell better than $200k So the Hartzler project in competitvely priced, and I think the styling is better than Capital Heights, imho. The city is on firm foundations and I think the economy and the surge in gas prices will help it continue on its current path.

Where is that store you took the picture of located? It looks like it was renovated.

Aloft Link
 

NEW HARRISBURG ALOFT LINK


http://www.starwoodhotels.com/alofth...ropertyID=3111

ALSO - www.harrisburgaloft.com

I don't think Vartan held the city back, it was the politics around Vartan that did. He had some amazing projects and ideas (Forum Place for example, which was set to be one of the tallest buildings on the east coast at that time; look what you have now instead thanks to politics and petty squabbling:(). Vartan was very stubborn and so was the Mayor, so you always had these deadlocks that tied projects up and they never went anywhere. Then the tit for tat started with parcels of land...

With Vartan's passing, it opened the dialog back up again with his company which was desperately needed. It's a shame it took that to make it happen.

Meadow to replace alley in Midtown
by LAUREN BOYER, Of The Patriot-News
Tuesday May 27, 2008, 3:00 PM

A block-long park and walkway will replace an alley near Harrisburg Area Community College's Midtown campus. Full of trees and greenery, the park will replace Boyd Street between the 1500 blocks of North Third and North Fourth streets.

C.J. Elder, president of the neighborhood development group Friends of Midtown, said the meadow will give a "sense of renewal" to the alley. "I'm a firm believer in greening up spaces," Elder said. "It's always better to add a tree than to add a parking lot."

Matt Tunnell, senior vice president of Power and Associates, said the meadow will be good for pedestrians. "It will make the street narrower, which will help to slow traffic down," he said.

Utility lines will be moved underground, Tunnell added. Trees, native grasses, bushes, benches, trash cans and decorative pavement will be put in.

The $750,000 project is to be finished this summer.

Is HACC trying to turn that into a campus like atmosphere up there? To me it seems like all of the manuvering that HACC is doing that they are trying to set themselves up to move towards a university.

Who is paying for all of this?

???????
 

I noticed that this project has been very sluggish.

Capital View Center in financial trouble
by DAN MILLER, Of The Patriot News
Wednesday June 04, 2008, 2:50 PM
Work looks to have all but stopped at Capital View Commerce Center, a $28 million building at Cameron and Herr streets that had been under construction since September, 2006.

Contractors on the project have filed liens seeking payment of a total of $3.3 million from Cameron Real Estate LP, listed as the owner of the center in documents filed in Dauphin County Courthouse.

David R. Dodd II, general contractor for the project, has not returned phone calls concerning the status of the 215,000-square-foot building. Dodd's printing company, Advanced Communications, was to occupy 115,000 square feet of the center.

The company is now in Penbrook.Herre Brothers of Enola filed two liens on May 7 seeking $1.2 million from Cameron Real Estate. The claims are for work Herre completed at the site through April 21. Herre stopped working on the site at that time, citing the lack of payment from Cameron Real Estate.

Rick McBride, president and CEO of Herre Brothers, today said his company has received no payment for several months from Cameron Real Estate.

McBride said he could not answer a question about the status of the project. He referred the question to Dodd.

"Most of the subcontractors have pulled off" the site, McBride said. McBride said he anticipates Herre's claim against Cameron will soon be updated to reflect that Cameron now owes the company more money than when the lien was first filed.

Today lights could be seen turned on inside the building. A few men could be seen walking around the building in hardhats and construction trailers remain on site. But there were no visible signs of any work being done on the building itself.

Other contractors who to date have filed liens against Cameron Real Estate are Weaver's Glass and Building Specialties of Harrisburg, H&R Mechanical of Middletown and Joseph Stong Inc. Fire Protection of Chester.

All of the firms filing claims had stopped work at the site before or by May 8. The companies entered into contracts with Cameron Real Estate in October 2007, according to court documents.

I thought I was imagining things. Guess things are "slowing" down, as in stopped. Wonder what's going to happen here...there is quite a structure there. Will they just let it sit?

This sucks, I haven't been by the building recently. Is the facade up? I assume that the building will be sold. There is quite a structure there the last time I was by in the fall. If significant work has been completed someone could get a very nice building at quite a discount.

/\
Wow, another failure on that lot (but truth be told, at least this project got much further than the others). I still think this was a TOTAL waste of a nice parcel of land...I saw something like Pittsburgh's Station Square there. Just imagine...imagine...

This is an unfortunate email I received today from a friend of a friend. I figured it was worth posting here so you guys can be careful and on the lookout when out and about!


Hi *****,

Just to let you know, I was mugged last night at about 2300hrs at Penn and Boas. We felt something was not right, tried to avoid a situation, but they were waiting for us.

I was shoved against a building and had what only I could assume was a gun being pressed against the back of my head. The culprits, 2 male african americans (one about 6' 3", the other about 5' 10") wearing light colored clothing and driving a dark (presumably black) older american made sedan made away with about $80, an ATM card and my house and car keys.

My buddy escaped the situation and was able to call 911. After a 1/2 hour wait for the police to show up we were interviewed...

Just thought you'd like to know and spread the word.

****

I guess Midtown isn't 100% turned around yet.

I doubt the situation at Harrisburg international will improve considering the airline industry is heading towards catastrophe

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/stories/2008/06/09/focus1.html?b=1212984000^1645577

Harrisburg's ultra-modern airport operates at half capacity with 100 daily flights

Pittsburgh Business Times - by Kim Lyons

Despite its barely 4-year-old, ultra-modern airport, Harrisburg still struggles to take off with some businesses.

The proximity of Pennsylvania's state capital to other major northeast cities is a draw for some companies to put offices there, and many businesses say doing business in Harrisburg, with its low cost of living and relatively stable economy, is pleasant enough.

But the airport's lack of reach poses a challenge, enough that many make the hour-and-a-half drive to Baltimore-Washington airport in Maryland, rather than try to make a connecting flight out of Harrisburg.

"You can get flights anywhere in Pennsylvania easily, but most of the time, I drive to Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, or Baltimore-Washington," said John Quain, co-managing shareholder of the Harrisburg office of Pittsburgh law firm Buchanan Ingersoll & Rooney PC. "There's not a lot of availability and variety of flights out of Harrisburg."

It qualifies as an international airport because it has a daily flight to Toronto, and has U.S. Customs facilities on site. Its $80 million, post-Sept. 11 overhaul has seven major airlines that fly about 100 flights daily, spokesman Scott Miller said. But Harrisburg International only offers flights as far west as Dallas/Fort Worth.

"We could handle twice the amount of traffic, but we need a partner who understands and realizes that," Miller said. "With a little break, we have the potential to really grow."

Harrisburg was the first airport to open after Sept. 11 with new government safety standards in place.

The new airport opened in August of 2004, two and a half years after the renovation project started.

However, Harrisburg International still lags behind its neighbors in terms of passenger volume.

The slashing of flights to Pittsburgh by US Airways -- it used to have six a day, now it has two -- didn't help, Miller said.

On average, the Harrisburg airport has about 2,500 departing seats per day, compared with 50,000 at Philadelphia International, Miller said.

Last year it handled between 1.2 million and 1.3 million passengers, he said.

One problem might be fares.

Looking at Harrisburg's top 15 domestic destinations for 2007, Harrisburg fares are, on average, 34 percent higher than those at BWI, according to FareReport.com.

The average one-way fare from BWI to Chicago is $129, compared with $239 from Harrisburg.

But Chris Detweiler, a Realtor with the Harrisburg office of Howard Hanna Real Estate Services Inc., said he doesn't see the airport as a detriment.

"I might if I had a job where I had to travel all over the country," Detweiler said.

But he said he and his wife are regular leisure travelers, who don't mind finding connecting flights at other airports to Europe.

"If I hit traffic on the way to Pittsburgh (International Airport), it may take longer to get there than just flying out of Harrisburg," he said. "There's never any lines, and it's really a breeze to get out of there easily."

Detweiler said the affordable housing in the region more than makes up for whatever trouble the airport might cause.

But Miller said the Harrisburg region appears to suffer from a bit of an identity crisis; while Harrisburg's official site refers to itself as the Center City area, the state's tourism office bills the eight-county region surrounding Harrisburg as "PA Dutch Country."

Miller said that designation may be great for Lancaster County, which seeks to attract tourists who want to see Amish people driving horse-drawn buggies, but probably is not as appealing to large companies doing business in Downtown Harrisburg.

"One of the challenges we face from a marketing standpoint is the perception: Central Pennsylvania isn't all farmland and rolling hills," Miller said. "When you look at all its ZIP codes, this is a 150,000-person city."

Miller also thinks a lack of cohesion among the counties surrounding Harrisburg hurts the airport's chances of becoming the economic engine it could be.

Thinking regionally doesn't come as readily to residents in the eight-county region surrounding Harrisburg as it does to Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, Miller said; he sees the area as somewhat parochial, which makes marketing the area's collective amenities difficult.

"You would think the Susquehanna River was the Great Wall of China," he said.

klyons@bizjournals.com | (412) 208-3827

Those quotes in bold are DEAD ON!!!

HIA is a nice airport but always pretty dead, will now be even more so and I'm not even sure it was ever worth having unfortunately...

Yeah, HIA is pretty useless. My mom never flies out of there - always BWI, or with the price of gas/convenience, Philly these days.

PNC Bank's May 2008 economic forecast for Metro Harrisburg:

https://www.pnc.com/webapp/unsec/Req...Harrisburg.pdf

I would imagine that less traffic would make things better for the travelers? :)

Xeelee, I like the low traffic volume. Same reason I like BWI over Dulles, the two airports I used to frequent before I moved to Harrisburg. I dropped off a friend once 30 minutes before his flight cause we got stuck in a massive citywide traffic jam from the south and within 10 minutes I was home to my house (using more local roads) and he was on his plane awaiting takeoff. I can get a cheap taxi ride or bum a ride to the airport. when I figure in gas and parking fees at another airport the 34% increase isn't that big of a deal. You have to remember it is 34% on a pretty cheap ticket as like the article stated they aren't long flights.

Evergrey, very nice read... Much of what I expected.

In Today's Patriot News (print adition):

- City buys new cop cars, expects 37% savings in fuel prices on cars. It is adding 53 vehicles and will be navy blue with gold lettering. article didn't specify the current number of cars to be retired, but stated that there would be more patrols on street and lower response time on calls

-Front pages news was the attack EastSide spoke about above

CENTER'S WOES
City project awaits solution for money problems
Monday, June 23, 2008
BY DAN MILLER
Of The Patriot-News

Capitol View Commerce Center was touted as the cure for a blighted property on one of Harrisburg's busiest roads.

The sparkling $28 million office complex was to replace a 10-acre brownfield at Cameron and Herr streets that had been vacant or underused since Tropical Storm Agnes in 1972.

Now, the project is in jeopardy of becoming an eye-sore.

Construction has come to a halt at the center, which is about three-quarters complete. Contractors left the site in May, leaving behind prominent signs of unfinished work for passing motorists -- jutting steel beams, garish white and yellow insulation and a glass wall that resembles a fighter missing a few teeth.

At last count eight contractors have filed liens in Dauphin County Court, claiming they haven't been paid for months by center owner and developer David R. Dodd II.

No signs are evident that work will resume anytime soon.

Amounts sought in the courthouse liens by contractors against Cameron Real Estate LP, of which Dodd is general partner, range from nearly $75,000 to more than $1.2 million.

Dodd did not respond to a request for comment.

The center has public funding commitments totaling about $17 million, including federal money from U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. The state has pledged $6.8 million, and Dauphin County has extended a $3 million loan.

Commerce Bank/Harrisburg is providing bank funding.

On June 12, a meeting was held between Commerce and Harrisburg officials to try to restart the project. The city had been a conduit to manage the flow of project dollars from the various sources to Dodd, so Dodd could pay the contractors.

City spokesman Matthew Coulter, in an e-mailed statement Friday, said the city and others involved in the center are awaiting information on a possible bridge loan from Commerce to resume the project.

Rory G. Ritrievi, market president for Commerce Bank/Harrisburg, confirmed Commerce's role as providing funding. Beyond that he said little else, citing privacy regulations governing the bank-client relationship.

"All the funding sources are working together to try and get this project completed and to have the contractors paid what is owed them. Whether that happens or not is still up in the air," Ritrievi said. "It's not a matter of Commerce taking charge or responsibility for the project. We just have a seat at the table."

Kevin Ortiz, spokesman for the state Department of Community and Economic Development, said the state hasn't changed any of its funding commitments to the center.

Timothy Woolford, a Lancaster attorney, is representing H&R Mechanical. The Middletown-based company filed its lien in court on May 8 seeking payment of $1.2 million from Dodd. Woolford said nothing has happened.

"No payments have been made and we are becoming less confident that a source of funding is in place to pay past due invoices," Woolford said.

H&R's contract was at least 80 percent complete when the company stopped on May 7. Woolford said H&R won't return until the $1.2 million is paid and his client is assured of future payments "in a timely fashion."

Woolford said he cannot understand why the city didn't require Dodd, acting as his own project general contractor, to post a bond to guarantee payment to the contractors. Woolford said that is standard for publicly funded construction projects, although this project is a mix of private and public money.

Woolford last week filed more court papers intended to force a sheriff's sale of the center to compel payment.

DAN MILLER: 255-8440 or danmiller@patriot-news.com

©2008 The Patriot-News
© 2008 PennLive.com All Rights Reserved.

I think a Sheriff sale might be the best thing for that property. at 75% complete I think it would be a compelling purchase for an investor. I would love to see that section of Cameron with a shiny new building. I would hope that having a completed office building would compell redevelopment of that section of Cameron. Cameron could turn into a very nice boulevard if it expirenced the right level of investment. It could cut a nice parallel to 2nd street and make "downtown" more than a one street affair.

Wow, what sad news! I too think Cameron has a lot of potential but it does need an overhaul of sorts.

True, The city could help by repaving the street to make it appear better, but there is a lot of other streets that are in much greater need of repaving. The city, state, and federal goverments all helped tremendously with this project. The developer needed to come up with very little of his own money.

I didn't write about it here, but there was a flap recently with the Council (who else) because the city engineer had changed the order of the paving of streets because the one dicatated to be done first by the council needed utility work that was to be completed later in the summer and he didn't want to dig up newly paved streets at additional cost (and ruin a nice new street) to the city. The council man's response was he wanted the job sites shut down till they could have a hearing. I mean I understand he probably had political motivations (probably the first sites were in his wards) but he has got to let some things go. The city is starting to turn a corner here finacially and he wants to drag it back. I think that the council should have to pay for all legal fees out of pocket when they do stupid shit...

Hotel planned on Harrisburg's Chestnut Street
 

I got up early to get you guys this one. In the print article they gave an update of the other 2 hotels proposed. The aloft is supposedly in process of finalizing contracts while the Barto Hotel, has just finished the engineering work. I assume now they need to find financing and a general contractor.

Maybe we'll see some construction on State Street by the end of the year. I don't know if we need 3 new hotels in Harrisburg, but I guess having 3 proposals means we should at least get one or 2. Pretty soon they will have to name it "Restruant and Hotel Row" This newest proposal sounds exciting because it would be the first higher end hotel in the region. It could add to the legitamacy of Harrisburg becoming the "small city" rather than a "large town"

/\
Unfortunately, I am not getting my hopes up for many reasons with one being that HBG does not need 3 hotels and two, the sucky economy going on in the country right now.

The earliest any of these projects are going to be completed is middle to late next year (Aloft) The other 2 are likely to open in 2010. The economy is going to very different then. Money is out there to be invested, (banks have to recoup losses somehow) if you have good business paramenters. The loans required are relatively small. I think Aloft is going up for about $16M right??

I disagree, and I don't think the economy is going to be any better by then, as that is not that long of a time frame and energy prices/prices in general are going nowhere but up. Hotels are good but they have a very limited focus: out of town travelers.

But time will tell and I could be wrong...

Time is the way to find out the general direction of the economy. I like the out of town focus of Hotels. Hotels are a great source of revenue that doesn't come from the local population. As a former resident I know you are fully aware of the tax load of the Harrisburg resident. This year I will pay >$6000 in taxes on a very modest house. The Aloft hotel takes two properties making ~ $10k total in taxes and turns it into several hundred thousand (I looked for exact tax number but WCI Partners took the hotel off their project page of their website)

Harrisburg continues to weather the sub prime storm very well. I believe the region as a whole will come out of the current slump significantly stronger than surrounding regions.

My point was that hotels = out of towners = traveling = there definitely won't be as much of that if gas prices continue to rise, which I am sure that they will. If there weren't so many hotel proposals, I wouldn't be as nervous...but I think that there may be too many eggs in one basket here. Urban living has been (and definitely will be) the hot "new" thing so why not a residential tower in the mix?

I totally agree with you that the property taxes in the city have been and are WAY out of hand. :(

Some of the reason that they are out of hand is most of the new (residential) development has at least partial tax holiday's for the first 10 years. I think it is good thing to have, but maybe not 10 years. 5 years I think would be better. It is long enough in the future to make the houses attractive to buyers, but will add new money to city coffers quicker.

I fully expect one of the state street projects to fall through. And if I had my pick it would be the Aloft. We now have a fully prepped vacant site for a nice tall building to be constructed. I am willing to wait a couple of years if that is what it takes for that to happen. All three of the new hotels will depend on the business traveler market to fill them. As long as the economy stays stable that market will still be around.

In other news:

The blurb from the Sterling Report

All of the continual talk of the Harrisburg-Carlisle Pa has gotten me to thinking. In the future will the Harrisburg region fully "morph" with Carlisle into one continuously developed region? Making them in effect a unified city? In the last year I have seen more and more references combining the two. I know that Carlisle has always been in the Harrisburg MSA, but it ususally wasn't identified with Harrisburg. Maybe cause the city had so much trouble. IDK. The continued development along the Carlisle Pike definately doesn't hurt the combining of the two's identies.

Wow, Harrisburg's an hour and a half EAST of Philadelphia?!? How come I could never find the beach when I lived there, though?!? And the capital of PA is actually located in NJ?!? Who would've thunk it?!??!?!?

:laugh:

That report is good news...I guess. I dunno, I just can't help but feel an underlying slap in the face to the area, though, with lines like this:

The list of nine cities is meant for people who can't afford the real estate in big cities like New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco but who don't want to give up the culture and amenities of urban life.

Well even including Carlisle, (basically half way to the Maryland/PA border) it is still only half a million. We aren't exactly huge around here, I just wish the "city" of Harrisburg actually could expand its borders to include all of the Harrisburg zip codes. it would be double its current population and the surrounding zip codes would benefit from strong leadership, even if it is coming from Reed. Slap us in the face or not we still outscored Dallas/Fort Worth... If they are grouped into the same group as us I'll except the slap. As much as slapping them as promoting us :laugh:

You would see it that way. It's not a slap in the face at all. Note the next line: The list of nine cities is meant for people who can't afford the real estate in big cities like New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco but who don't want to give up the culture and amenities of urban life.

There's nothing wrong with not being able to afford the outrageous costs of living in the big coastal cities.

Nor wanting to deal with the hassle of those cities...

EDIT: Grammar.