Boring but practical is how they've been incentivized to operate (as with most industries in Canada these days). Innovation now is focused on reducing cost pressures and exposure, rather than trying to push technical boundaries.

Less form, more function

Moved from housing policies:)

The project south of Second Narrows isn't especially complex. There'll need to be an 1,800m tunnel from Metrotown to Deer Lake Parkway to handle the change in elevation which has been discussed previously on the forum. And a second short tunnel (1,200m from Still Creek to Brentlawn Drive) may be necessary from the TCH past TAB considering the Millennium Line guideway is already clogging up that space. But I think there's plenty of space on the east side Willingdon for about 3km where there is a MUP, parking lots, and some grass, to accommodate an elevated guideway.

Hastings is a tougher nut to crack. If it's elevated, Hastings would need to go to five travel lanes instead of six, which may be a non-starter considering dedicated bus lanes for the BRT would likely remain even after the Purple Line to accommodate BRT to SFU. If the train needs to be buried along Hastings you're looking at 1,500m to Boundary or 2,000m to the TCH which are the likely options for heading north to Second Narrows.

(As an aside, I wonder if Skytrain could be elevated in a laneway paralleling Hastings similar to how they built some of the L in Chicago?)

Phibbs to Park Royal is another 8,500 along Main, 3rd, and Marine. Because of grade changes and density I think you're looking at tunneled at least to Keith Road, or probably Capilano Road, or maybe all the way (the tunneled section would be 5km, 7km, or 8.5km, respectively).

So overall you're looking at 20km from Metrotown to Phibbs, 12km tunneled and 8km elevated. Canada Line was 19km with 10km tunneled.

Starting with Phibbs to Metrotown?

Good call.

You're right it's not especially complex. And especially not compared to other projects undertaken elsewhere in the world. Compared to other transit projects undertaken by the province of British Columbia it has them all beat in terms of complexity (assuming it is all delivered in a single phase, with the Burnaby section being the less complex portion).


Still looking at 3km of tunnel boring here. Basically half of the Broadway Subway project. I know the grades between Deer Lake and Metrotown have been discussed here, what about that section where the MUP is though? You'd need to transition from a tunnel around TAB to an elevated guideway on an incline, doesn't seem particularly feasible to me. Best case scenario IMO would be digging up the MUP for a cut & cover tunnel for that couple km section.

And we're already at pretty much the same amount of tunnel boring as the Broadway subway with that extra couple kms, complete with multiple tunnel to elevated transitions or more tunneling with likely a pretty deep station in Burnaby Heights.

I like the concept, have toyed with that idea myself. I think the most difficult part of an elevated guideway would be the turning radius. The Willingdon to Hastings (or parallel laneway) is going to be a pretty tight turn without expropriating some properties. My gut says due to the politics involved (as we are already seeing with the BRT lanes), the portion in Burnaby Heights will be tunneled.


Canada Line is 10km tunneled with cut & cover, much easier to do than tunnel boring. Neither is particularly complex on a world scale, but again this is all relative.

We're effectively trying to build 2 Broadway subways, the Skybridge, and the Evergreen extension all in one project here (and that's assuming this shares a OMC with the existing system).

I agree that Phibbs to Metrotown does split it up nicely into 1 Broadway Subway, the Skybridge and half of the Evergreen extension. (at which point the question will become, do we really need to build the second half across the North Shore before we build a line down Hastings, KGB or 41st/49th?)

I think a Phase 2 to Lonsdale makes sense, otherwise we'd just end up with another giant bus bridge like Cambie-Commercial. Park Royal OTOH can definitely wait a bit longer.

I guess this and something on the Safeway site would help with a turn.

https://www.burnabynow.com/local-new...august-7441706

Assuming an elevated alignment parallel to Hastings, would they go with Pender or Albert?

I was thinking the laneways, but they appear a bit too tight so some buildings would need a haircut and a lot of private properties would lose some space too (Chicago has a much wider guideway but also appears to have wider lanes).

Assuming the guideway eventually continues all the way to DT Vancouver, Pender doesn't have any obstructions except for one development a few blocks after Clark. On the other hand, Albert/Franklin would have to jog around the PNE.

I'm not sure an easement other than 4472 would be necessary. One of the tighter turns in the Skytrain system is after Lougheed when it turns onto North Road. It appears the curve has a radius of 90m, which would fit at Willingdon/Hastings without touching the Safeway property.

I suppose it depends where the nearest station is. If it's further from the curve than Lougheed is from the North Road turn, it may be better to have a gentler curve to allow turns at higher speeds.

One of the biggest issues I think with a Brentwood Station exchange station is that if we assume an underground alignment at Willingdon and Lougheed, there's really no clear good option for a north or south tunnel portal. As you note, to the north it's all uphill towards Hastings so it's difficult to rise out of the ground without blocking half a dozen blocks, and to the south there's really no option to exit underground until BCIT, not to mention that tunneling beneath Still Creek is probably extremely suboptimal given the water table and soil conditions. Hence why I think a Gilmore Station exchange station makes a lot more sense from an engineering and cost perspective. You can stay above grade from Deer Lake all the way to Douglas Road, then tunnel from there to the Second Narrows. That's only a 50% Broadway Extension tunnel.

If it were to be aligned along Willingdon, cut and cover is probably palatable to everyone. I think the distaste following the Canada Line has subsided, especially given the cut and cover Broadway Extension stations seem be chugging along relatively uncontroversially. There aren't really any businesses or residences to be impacted. Seems reasonable.

There's certainly going to be a new OMC for a future purple line. Every new extension seems comes with a new OMC. OMC3 came with the Evergreen Extension, the Broadway Extension is coming along with OMC4, and another OMC is planned for the SLS extension.

The Translink prerogrative will likely be to link the Lonsdale urban centre into the Skytrain station ASAP before Hastings, KGB, or 41st/49th. Once that happens though, Lonsdale continuing towards Park Royal might be far, far into the future.

I think there would certainly be a station very closer to the Willingdon/Hastings intersection.

Are you suggesting an elevating the station at Gilmore above the Millennium Line station? My thought for an underground station is that a double-height guideway in such a prominent residential area may be unpalatable. But if we're going with stacked stations, I don't see why a Willingdon line couldn't be elevate all the way from Deer Lake to Hastings. The MUP on the east side also exists beside TAB.

I think where the interim BRT line is routed will inform where the Purple Line goes. Assuming a Purple Line is at least 10 years away considering planning and construction time, that's quite a while for the BRT line to influence development patterns. If towers in TOD areas all along Willingdon start being assembled, planned, and built, it'll be much harder to justify going down Gilmore.

The gravity of the Purple Line could change significantly in the next few decades. Park Royal and Lions Gate Village are already significant residential communities, and with the development of the Capilano reserve and a redevelopment of the Capilano Mall there would be thousands of residents living on the western half of the Purple Line alignment, begging to be served by higher order transit.

Yeah Safeway was only thrown in there to maybe have the station integrated into a larger redevelopment on the corner instead of having it in the centre of the road.

Where's the "tallest" guideway segments on the system? Over the highway near Renfrew?

Maybe. Not sure if you were around for the Evergreen, but there's a couple of isolated tower clumps in the Tri-Cities because developers guessed where the SkyTrain would go and got it really, really wrong. It's probably going to be Willingdon, but Gilmore won't get locked out because of development.