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-   -   AUSTIN | Fairmont Hotel | 595 FEET SPIRE/456 FT ROOF | 37 FLRS | Complete (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=192101)

Geckos_Rule Jul 5, 2018 2:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austin242 (Post 8241717)
Isn't the UT mall on the drags crosswalk rainbow now?https://www.statesman.com/news/local...Y63kH4SAMolmK/

Yeah, but you can hardly notice it. Same would happen with 4th street over time. Unless you constantly repaint it, it just gets covered with dirt and ends up looking like most other crosswalks

austlar1 Jul 5, 2018 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masonh2479 (Post 8240958)
Can someone please take a wrecking ball to the Fairmont. It is trash inside and out, the cheapness of the developers has turned a once great design into a hodge podge pos.

I know because I have been to it in person, it looks dated and that food court thing is an aweful idea. I don’t know how the high ups at Fairmont allowed this to happen, I stayed at the Pacific Rim and it was miles above this hotel, shameful.

I have been trying to give the Fairmont a chance but nothing at this hotel has ever been smooth sailing. I wonder what we would have if the first design was built and detail was put into the building. Rather than building a glass L and saying fuck it.

Fairmont, sell your Austin hotel, cut your losses and try again here, bring over your whole design team that designed the Pacific Rim and give them a good budget to make an incredible design. Stick to the incredible design this time and take your time building it, built it well, you are a luxury hotel chain, use some expensive material. Have the execs personally monitor this hotel to avoid another screw up. Austin deserves a real Fairmont, please make it happen. Since I have been mentioning the Fairmont Pacific Rim a lot, check it out, best hotel stay ever for me.

Don’t forget to fire all those that screwed up the Austin project...

Excuse my language, rant over.

Fairmont did not finance or build the Austin project, and they don't own it now. I am not sure what the exact details of the operating contract might be, but the hotel is "branded" as a Fairmont and presumably has to conform to certain specifics that are associated with the brand. I am pretty sure the hotel is actually operated by some entity controlled by the Manchester interests. If Fairmont is not happy with the way the hotel is being operated, they probably have some legal recourse available for divorcing themselves from the operation. That is probably something they would prefer to do in as discrete a manner as possible, assuming that they want to go down that road.

We vs us Jul 5, 2018 9:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austlar1 (Post 8242451)
Fairmont did not finance or build the Austin project, and they don't own it now. I am not sure what the exact details of the operating contract might be, but the hotel is "branded" as a Fairmont and presumably has to conform to certain specifics that are associated with the brand. I am pretty sure the hotel is actually operated by some entity controlled by the Manchester interests. If Fairmont is not happy with the way the hotel is being operated, they probably have some legal recourse available for divorcing themselves from the operation. That is probably something they would prefer to do in as discrete a manner as possible, assuming that they want to go down that road.

Manchester developed the hotel and is the current ownership entity, and Fairmont manages. Fairmont will definitely have a boatload of brand standards (as does every other brand, of course); but they have a lot of control over the day-to-day -- it's their people in charge of operations. They were almost certainly involved in this from the design phase onward, so there shouldn't be a lot they don't know about at this time.

austlar1 Jul 5, 2018 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by We vs us (Post 8242605)
Manchester developed the hotel and is the current ownership entity, and Fairmont manages. Fairmont will definitely have a boatload of brand standards (as does every other brand, of course); but they have a lot of control over the day-to-day -- it's their people in charge of operations. They were almost certainly involved in this from the design phase onward, so there shouldn't be a lot they don't know about at this time.

It's never been clear to me what entity actually "operates" a branded hotel property. I know that the property's owners co-ordinate with the brand's reservations and rewards program and is responsible for maintaining the brands's standards at the property. I am not as certain that the brand, in this case Fairmont, actually operates and staffs the property. Do you know this to be the case with the Austin Fairmont? Is the management team from the Fairmont corporate stable? I am pretty certain that White Lodging operates and staffs their own properties under various brands. In Austin most, but not all, of their properties are Marriott brands. I am not trying to be argumentative. I am genuinely interested in knowing more about this subject.

My inconclusive research on the subject comes up with this information about hotel operations.
There are generally 3 ways a hotel chain operates:

1. Franchisee: most of the big hotel chains prefer this. In which hotel is managed and operated by building owner. However, brands do conduct regular audit in order to keep a check on standards and facilities provided. These facilities can be surprise visits as well and brands charge certain percentage of profit/ flat amount to the owner.

2. Owned properties: very rare, but hotel chains do own certain number of hotels and retain all the profit (or loss).

3. Managed properties: these are the properties which are owner by different people but managed by brands, and the owners do not interfere in terms of operation. Owners and operators get to share profit from revenue stream per negotiated terms.

We vs us Jul 6, 2018 2:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austlar1 (Post 8242640)
It's never been clear to me what entity actually "operates" a branded hotel property. I know that the property's owners co-ordinate with the brand's reservations and rewards program and is responsible for maintaining the brands's standards at the property. I am not as certain that the brand, in this case Fairmont, actually operates and staffs the property. Do you know this to be the case with the Austin Fairmont? Is the management team from the Fairmont corporate stable? I am pretty certain that White Lodging operates and staffs their own properties under various brands. In Austin most, but not all, of their properties are Marriott brands. I am not trying to be argumentative. I am genuinely interested in knowing more about this subject.

No worries at all. It IS fascinating stuff; it's taken me a long time to understand the dynamics of the industry and how local markets work, and I've worked in three of them in the last decade.

I can't say I've seen the Fairmont management agreement but I'm sure they're managing the property. When they tried to recruit me, all of my communication came from corporate reps or the local Fairmont team. I also know that they've pulled talent from around the Fairmont/Accor system globally to help open the hotel. This was a really big deal for Fairmont/Accor -- a very high profile new-build convention hotel in a scorching hot smaller market. That's a lot of risk for a company like Fairmont, that normally specializes in gateway markets, has a well-traveled, global clientele, and is most comfortable managing mostly historic center city luxury properties. So you can be sure they pulled in as many of their stars as they could to make this completely different project work.

This is my knock against the Fairmont, BTW, and why I think they'll eventually negotiate their way out of this deal. They built a 1000 room luxury convention hotel in a hot but immature secondary market, and now have to fill those 1000 rooms every night with average daily rates far above what their direct competitors are getting. Luxury convention hotels typically can survive only in the biggest and most international convention cities -- Orlando, Vegas, Chicago. But here they are, in Austin TX.

They are so large, the only way they will ever get close to filling those rooms is with convention business, almost none of which will support the rates they have to get to be a Fairmont. And that's the weird thing. They very specifically built the thing to be a convention hotel, and to support the conventions that Austin gets. So why force it -- by dint of its brand -- to have to be too expensive for those conventions?

And besides all that, Fairmont also doesn't have any real corporate experience running convention hotels. They don't have a national sales force that will source/support those opportunities, or relationships that run into that branch of the business.

At core, what they built is not what they know how to do, and inevitably they're going to have to realize that. All my opinion, of course.


Quote:

My inconclusive research on the subject comes up with this information about hotel operations.
There are generally 3 ways a hotel chain operates:

1. Franchisee: most of the big hotel chains prefer this. In which hotel is managed and operated by building owner. However, brands do conduct regular audit in order to keep a check on standards and facilities provided. These facilities can be surprise visits as well and brands charge certain percentage of profit/ flat amount to the owner.
This is all spot on. In this case, the Franchisee essentially rents the brand identity (and sales infrastructure, and loyalty network) from the Major Brand, and makes sure the property hits as much of the brand touchpoints as it can. If it degrades in quality, the Major Brand has a variety of different sanctions available against the Franchisee, but the worst of which is always pulling the flag.

White Lodging is one of Marriott's premier Franchisees. They are doing something virtually no one else is doing -- building very large group/convention hotels (almost exclusively JWs) in emerging markets. Big hotels are usually one-offs -- built by cities to support convention centers like our Hilton -- so if you can keep building these things successfully in different cities you'll be pretty popular in Marriott development circles. And so it is with White Lodging/Marriott.

White Lodging prefers to manage all of its properties under the White Lodging umbrella -- so if you work at the JW or the Aloft Element or the Westin -- despite those being different "brands" -- you work for White Lodging. They have their own HR dept, White Lodging benefits and healthcare, corporate trainers, etc.

Quote:

2. Owned properties: very rare, but hotel chains do own certain number of hotels and retain all the profit (or loss).
The big Major Brands are all going in this direction -- being "asset light" or "recycling assets". Meaning, selling the real estate and focusing on franchising and management fees. There's one major exception to this right now -- Omni currently develops, owns and manages all of their properties. And it's a model that's working for them. They've won a lot of exclusive contracts to new convention hotels: the Nashville Omni is one that's been around for a few years, Louisville just built one, Oklahoma City and Boston both have ones announced. They also just opened one in Frisco at The Star.

Quote:

3. Managed properties: these are the properties which are owner by different people but managed by brands, and the owners do not interfere in terms of operation. Owners and operators get to share profit from revenue stream per negotiated terms.
Franchising is acceptable, but this is the most popular option right now, and vastly preferred by the Major Brands. It give them the most control over the brand identity, but none of the up front development costs.

Jdawgboy Jul 6, 2018 3:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geckos_Rule (Post 8242026)
Yeah, but you can hardly notice it. Same would happen with 4th street over time. Unless you constantly repaint it, it just gets covered with dirt and ends up looking like most other crosswalks

The crosswalk on Guadalupe is not painted in Rainbow colors, rather it was supposed to resemble a sunset so the colors were not bright to begin with, plus the colors are not connected rather just rows spaced apart.

Here are some pictures of the crosswalks in San Antonio. Not just one but all four... Would take a whole lot of dirt to cover those. I doubt they will have to repaint very often.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180706/698cdve8.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/180706/vcnjlh98.jpg

Anywho I know I said I wouldn't say anymore on the subject but figured I'd chime in.

Fairmont needs to rainbow up in August during our Pride.

austlar1 Jul 6, 2018 3:58 AM

We vs US, That was a great response, full of good information. Thanks for sorting it all out.

We vs us Jul 6, 2018 1:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austlar1 (Post 8242893)
We vs US, That was a great response, full of good information. Thanks for sorting it all out.

Sorry if it was rambly -- I'm a chronic over-explainer :cheers:

The ATX Jul 6, 2018 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by We vs us (Post 8242827)
No worries at all. It IS fascinating stuff; it's taken me a long time to understand the dynamics of the industry and how local markets work, and I've worked in three of them in the last decade.

I can't say I've seen the Fairmont management agreement but I'm sure they're managing the property. When they tried to recruit me, all of my communication came from corporate reps or the local Fairmont team. I also know that they've pulled talent from around the Fairmont/Accor system globally to help open the hotel. This was a really big deal for Fairmont/Accor -- a very high profile new-build convention hotel in a scorching hot smaller market. That's a lot of risk for a company like Fairmont, that normally specializes in gateway markets, has a well-traveled, global clientele, and is most comfortable managing mostly historic center city luxury properties. So you can be sure they pulled in as many of their stars as they could to make this completely different project work.

This is my knock against the Fairmont, BTW, and why I think they'll eventually negotiate their way out of this deal. They built a 1000 room luxury convention hotel in a hot but immature secondary market, and now have to fill those 1000 rooms every night with average daily rates far above what their direct competitors are getting. Luxury convention hotels typically can survive only in the biggest and most international convention cities -- Orlando, Vegas, Chicago. But here they are, in Austin TX.

They are so large, the only way they will ever get close to filling those rooms is with convention business, almost none of which will support the rates they have to get to be a Fairmont. And that's the weird thing. They very specifically built the thing to be a convention hotel, and to support the conventions that Austin gets. So why force it -- by dint of its brand -- to have to be too expensive for those conventions?

And besides all that, Fairmont also doesn't have any real corporate experience running convention hotels. They don't have a national sales force that will source/support those opportunities, or relationships that run into that branch of the business.

At core, what they built is not what they know how to do, and inevitably they're going to have to realize that. All my opinion, of course.




This is all spot on. In this case, the Franchisee essentially rents the brand identity (and sales infrastructure, and loyalty network) from the Major Brand, and makes sure the property hits as much of the brand touchpoints as it can. If it degrades in quality, the Major Brand has a variety of different sanctions available against the Franchisee, but the worst of which is always pulling the flag.

White Lodging is one of Marriott's premier Franchisees. They are doing something virtually no one else is doing -- building very large group/convention hotels (almost exclusively JWs) in emerging markets. Big hotels are usually one-offs -- built by cities to support convention centers like our Hilton -- so if you can keep building these things successfully in different cities you'll be pretty popular in Marriott development circles. And so it is with White Lodging/Marriott.

White Lodging prefers to manage all of its properties under the White Lodging umbrella -- so if you work at the JW or the Aloft Element or the Westin -- despite those being different "brands" -- you work for White Lodging. They have their own HR dept, White Lodging benefits and healthcare, corporate trainers, etc.



The big Major Brands are all going in this direction -- being "asset light" or "recycling assets". Meaning, selling the real estate and focusing on franchising and management fees. There's one major exception to this right now -- Omni currently develops, owns and manages all of their properties. And it's a model that's working for them. They've won a lot of exclusive contracts to new convention hotels: the Nashville Omni is one that's been around for a few years, Louisville just built one, Oklahoma City and Boston both have ones announced. They also just opened one in Frisco at The Star.



Franchising is acceptable, but this is the most popular option right now, and vastly preferred by the Major Brands. It give them the most control over the brand identity, but none of the up front development costs.

Now, that's a high quality post. :cheers: I like to see those on here. Too bad the ancient forum software doesn't have a Like option.

We vs us Sep 13, 2018 5:30 PM

Here's some good news -- looks like Fairmont decided to light themselves up a little differently for the UT/USC game this weekend.

https://image-store.slidesharecdn.co...-original.jpeg

resansom Sep 13, 2018 9:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by We vs us (Post 8313451)
Here's some good news -- looks like Fairmont decided to light themselves up a little differently for the UT/USC game this weekend.

https://image-store.slidesharecdn.co...-original.jpeg

What does that look like from the north? Can you see any orange, at all?

lzppjb Sep 13, 2018 10:15 PM

I love the orange!

the Genral Sep 14, 2018 12:24 AM

I prefer maroon. Looks like they are already having lighting issues on the blank wall.

The ATX Sep 14, 2018 1:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Genral (Post 8314004)
Looks like they are already having lighting issues on the blank wall.

Good eye. I couldn't help but focus on the light show at top.

Jdawgboy Sep 14, 2018 2:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The ATX (Post 8314120)
Good eye. I couldn't help but focus on the light show at top.

Not much of a light show when it's just solid light. Same old boring spotlights on the spire. Still waiting to see it lit up with the LEDs. It was also burnt orange this past Saturday night. Would Like to see movement with the lighted screen, have the colors in rows moving, something that they can do. They also need to cover over the mechanical penthouse and light it cause it looks ridiculous. Or they could place another white Fairmont sign which would at least tie into the lighting when coming from the north. Anything to get rid of the dark blank section.

the Genral Sep 14, 2018 3:05 AM

Something else I noticed, it looks like the majority of the rooms are lit up. After all the bad reviews, it doesn't appear to be hurting business.

H2O Sep 14, 2018 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Genral (Post 8314193)
Something else I noticed, it looks like the majority of the rooms are lit up. After all the bad reviews, it doesn't appear to be hurting business.

I've been doing business lately with out of town partners that stay their regularly. They don't have any complaints about the rooms, despite the cheesey décor of the lobby.

We vs us Sep 14, 2018 2:02 PM

They're slowly getting their footing from what we're hearing. Definitely a bumpy start but things are evening out in terms of service and the reliability of the physical space.

We vs us Dec 12, 2018 7:13 PM

Yowza!

https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/n...w-details.html

Quote:

Fairmont Austin construction nightmare: new details unearthed in big-dollar lawsuit

By Paul Thompson – Assistant managing editor, Austin Business Journal
an hour ago

The developer behind the flashy new Fairmont Austin is suing the project’s general contractor, claiming the belated opening of the massive hotel led to tens of millions of dollars of cost overruns and serious harm to the developer's reputation.

Manchester Financial Group LLC filed a lawsuit in Travis County District Court on Nov. 21 alleging general contractor AECOM Inc. committed fraud by providing unrealistic timelines and glossing over issues with subcontractors. Manchester Financial is asking for more than $50 million in damages.

AECOM’s registered agent in Dallas was served with the lawsuit at 11:40 a.m. Dec. 4, according to court records. AECOM did not respond to multiple requests for comment. Manchester Financial is represented in the lawsuit by Mazzarella & Mazzarella LLP in San Diego and Thompson Coe Cousins & Irons LLP in Austin. Attorneys did not immediately return a request for comment.

It was no secret the hotel wasn’t completely finished when it opened in March 2018, just days ahead of the annual South by Southwest festival. But Manchester Financial alleges in court documents that the hotel was only 60 percent complete when it opened to the public — and that some of it is still unfinished to this day, with AECOM essentially out of the picture. The lawsuit claims a date of "substantial completion" has yet to be issued, and that no such date has been set by the project architect. Rather, the hotel continues to operate with a temporary certificate of occupancy, the lawsuit alleges.

Hunt Construction Group was named general contractor of Fairmont Austin in May 2014, according to the lawsuit. In July 2014, AECOM announced it was buying Hunt.

At the heart of the lawsuit is the claim by Manchester Financial that AECOM diverted attention away from the Fairmont to other projects, such as the $5 billion Hollywood Park, a mixed-use development that will include a new stadium for the NFL’s Los Angeles Rams.



The Fairmont “became the proverbial ‘red-headed step child’ for AECOM, especially after it began experiencing problems,” according to the lawsuit.

The price tag for the hotel, which is supposed to have 1,048 rooms when finished, has ballooned to $370 million. Originally, the Fairmont was supposed to be done by June 3, 2017, according to the lawsuit, with a price tag of no more than $237,734,526.

First signs of tension

After the construction site flooded in spring 2015, Manchester Financial and AECOM agreed to push back the completion date to Aug. 9, 2017, according to the lawsuit.

In July 2016, AECOM was selected to co-develop Hollywood Park. According to the lawsuit, trouble started shortly afterward, including when AECOM moved Eric Schreiner, who had been the Fairmont's project manager, to Los Angeles.

Manchester Financial alleges AECOM representatives misled them on the Fairmont construction timeline. Manchester Financial then had to cancel millions of dollars worth of reservations because it had booked rooms and events based on info from AECOM, the lawsuit claims. Several businesses, including the Austin Business Journal, booked ballrooms at the hotel in 2017 but later had to make other arrangements.

AECOM showed little inclination to meet key deadlines, even after Manchester Financial agreed to spend $3.6 million to speed up construction for a new opening date of Sept. 20, 2017, the lawsuit claims. During this time, subcontractors were telling AECOM that they wouldn't be able to meet the accelerated timeline, and AECOM "knew the schedules were extremely unrealistic," according to Manchester Financial.

Payments to subcontractors also ran dry, and as a result, they "were unwilling to continue working and unwilling to increase the amount of labor and materials necessary," Manchester Financial alleges in the suit. Issues between AECOM and one of a plumbing contractors, Cobb Mechanical Contractors Inc., spilled into public with a $27 million lawsuit in March 2017. That legal battle continues.


While all this was going on, Manchester Financial was paying the hundreds of people it had hired with an expected start date of Sept. 20, 2017, according to the lawsuit — employee wages and office expenses for those five and a half months totaled more than $1.2 million. Manchester Financial also canceled all reservations made between Sept. 20, 2017, and March 7, 2018.

Lingering issues

Even when the hotel finally opened, it was still losing out on revenue because much of it remained unfinished — for example, reservations for about 400 rooms booked for SXSW had to be canceled, according to the lawsuit.

Still, SXSW Chief Logistics Officer Mike Shea told Austin Business Journal the Fairmont "performed very well" during the 2018 festival, in spite of the construction delays. Shea noted that the Fairmont Austin has a SXSW contract at least through the 2019 event, though he declined to disclose the length of the agreement.

Manchester Financial contends it would have gotten rid of AECOM as general contractor in February 2017 if it had known more about all of the issues.

Lost bookings from August 2017 to today, as well as cancellation penalties and other damages, exceeds $75 million at the Fairmont, Manchester Financial alleges in the lawsuit. Court records indicate it's seeking at least $50 million from AECOM, but the lawsuit also states that the company could seek more money at trial.

The 50-page lawsuit goes into extensive detail with claims of money lost due to the delays. During those five-plus months, Manchester Financial spent $10,000 per month for office space, $355,292 per month in property taxes, $100,000 per month on the ground lease and at least $1.7 million in monthly interest on its construction loan, as well as paying architects, interior designers and construction administrators.


Manchester Financial is still paying Landmark Hospitality Contracting Inc. as the owner's representative on the construction site after AECOM "virtually abandoned" the project, according to the lawsuit.

Manchester Financial is asking for $2.7 million, part of the $3.6 million it agreed to pay AECOM to accelerate the construction timeline.

As of Nov. 21, Manchester Financial claimed work on the hotel remained unfinished, although it did not specify how much remained. The company has four other hospitality properties, including three hotels in its hometown of San Diego.

In addition to suing AECOM, Manchester Financial filed a lawsuit earlier in November against its insurance providers, alleging the Fairmont's insurance policy was incorrectly converted into a narrower corporate risk domestic property policy as the project timeline stretched into 2018.

Jdawgboy Dec 13, 2018 3:17 AM

No wonder there is no flashy lighting occurring. They have other issues to deal with. I was gonna criticize how they spent a bunch of money for what could be the most impressive lighted building in the city and yet they just use the floodlights on the spire and mostly the blue lighting on the crown which need I say looks bad from the north with that blank spot where the Mechanical room is. They could hire someone to set the lighting each night but its possible that its not complete. Who knows but it's the holiday season and we have yet to see any change in their lighting.


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