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GaylordWilshire Jan 15, 2011 1:34 PM

:previous:

Thanks gs-- I didn't recognize the Times building without seeing its tower and eagle.

gsjansen Jan 15, 2011 1:45 PM

a 1937 image of a street car wreck at the intersection of 1st street and hill street. I'm positive this is a newly uploaded image on the LAPL site, as i know i would have remembered this one.

wreck of the No. 1 street car of the Los Angeles Railway at 1st and Hill streets. Five passengers, two crew members and one bystander received injuries. Cross shows where the trolley was supposed to have stopped on the 1st Street downgrade, but the magnetic brakes failed.

http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics30/00034811.jpg
Source: LAPL http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics30/00034811.jpg

CASIGNS Jan 15, 2011 4:55 PM

ACME Signal
 
Post 2497, first photo, inlcudes an ACME signal with a box on top. I have seen lots of photos of ACME's and never seen one with a box like that. Anyone have an idea what that is?

Brian
www.caltrafficsigns.com

GaylordWilshire Jan 15, 2011 5:39 PM

:previous:

I was wondering the same thing--thought maybe the street names might be on the edges of the cap, but then there are already signs on the lamppost at that corner... or perhaps the cap was part of some sort of neighborhood customization of the signals. We'll have to keep our eyes out when looking at other pictures with the semaphores in them.

Btw--in NYC, at least in Manhattan, there has been a alot of such customization in the past decade or so. Once upon a time ('60s-'70s) Manhattan (and Staten Island) had black lettering on yellow before going to what I thought was federally-mandated white on green in the late '80s or so, consistent boroughwide. (Other boroughs had more or less similar graphics but different colors at that time: Bronx, white on blue; Queens, blue on white; Brooklyn, white on black--all these also went to white on green.) My assumption of federal regs coming into play must not be correct, because these days there is a confusing jumble of varying designs and colors all over Manhattan. Having so many different styles and colors makes it tougher to pick out the signs for quick reference these days. (Sorry--I realize I'm digressing to the wrong coast... I shouldn't get started on the suburbanization of Manhattan here....)

ethereal_reality Jan 16, 2011 1:09 AM

A couple pages back in post #2456 Beaudry posted postcards of the Hotel Breevort and the Chancellor Hotel.
Here is another building that has ties with the Black Dahlia.

The Hirsch Apartments at 300 E. Washington Blvd.



http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/2...pts01at300.jpg
lakompany




http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/7...rschapts07.jpg
lakompany






http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/563...pts04possi.jpg
lakompany





http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/6...rschapts05.jpg
lakompany


The link below explains the connection with Elizabeth Short.
http://lakompany.blogspot.com/2010/0...partments.html

GaylordWilshire Jan 16, 2011 1:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5126545)
Below: The 7th home of the Los Angeles Stock Exchange at 639 S. Spring St.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/615...me639sspri.jpg
usc digital archive

This is an especially interesting shot to me, what with Ralphs, Bullock's, and W&J Sloane all being represented along with the 7th Exchange. The Exchange building is now the awkwardly-named Spring Towers Lofts, badly altered on the lower floors; the little peaked-roof building to its left is gone. So is Ralphs, though at least we're left with a nice ghost sign behind it.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TT...82013%20PM.jpgGoogle Street View

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TT...70853%20PM.jpgGoogle Street View

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TT...82636%20AM.jpgGoogle Street View

ethereal_reality Jan 16, 2011 1:27 AM

The Holland Hotel at 1404 W. 7th St.
Black Dahlia suspect Arnold Smith died here in a room fire.





http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1...hoteldahli.jpg
lakompany






http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8...andhotel23.jpg
lakompany





http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/3...landhotel6.jpg
lakompany







http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/224...ndhotel111.jpg
lakompany



http://lakompany.blogspot.com/2010/0...y-holland.html


Today is the anniversary of the murder of Elizabeth Short.

GaylordWilshire Jan 16, 2011 2:20 PM

R.I.P. Elizabeth n.m.n. Short
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5127546)
The Hirsch Apartments at 300 E. Washington Blvd.

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/7...rschapts07.jpg
lakompany


ethereal--it is absolutely amazing that the Hirsch still stands--it's just about the only recognizable vintage structure in these parts, its survival doubly amazing in that it's built of wood, unaltered and apparently in very good condition. The dentils and column capitals are intact, and the facade is even carefully painted to pick out "THE HIRSCH APTS." on two sides. The Hirsch would have fit right in on old Bunker Hill; once common, there are very few rambling wooden apartments buildings like this in any kind of decent shape left in L.A.

JeffDiego Jan 17, 2011 1:23 AM

Ethereal: Fascinating info. about Elizabeth Short and the Hirsch Apts. Never heard any of that before. Can it be at least partly true? Sounds convincing. Hmmm...
The Holland Hotel...good Lord, talk about dreary and depressing. Excellent photos. You can almost smell the stale odors.

ethereal_reality Jan 17, 2011 9:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 5127888)
ethereal--it is absolutely amazing that the Hirsch still stands--it's just about the only recognizable vintage structure in these parts, its survival doubly amazing in that it's built of wood, unaltered and apparently in very good condition. The dentils and column capitals are intact, and the facade is even carefully painted to pick out "THE HIRSCH APTS." on two sides. The Hirsch would have fit right in on old Bunker Hill; once common, there are very few rambling wooden apartments buildings like this in any kind of decent shape left in L.A.


GaylordWilshire
When I first came across the photos of the Hirsch I was astonished.
If I still lived in L.A. I think I would have to drive to the Hirsch just to touch it and convince myself that it is, in fact, still there.
For a wooden structure to have survived that many years, and without some sort of ill advised remodeling job is beyond fantastic.

It would be interesting to find out who owns it today.
The fine paint job shows whoever owns it has a decent amount of respect for the building.

hollywoodnorth Jan 18, 2011 10:45 AM

such a great thread! thanks everyone for your info! :) :cheers:

GaylordWilshire Jan 18, 2011 2:48 PM

Repurposing of The Normandie
 
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics15/00007395.jpgLAPL http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics15/00007395.jpg


http://lh4.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TT.../normandie.jpg http://www.opposingviews.com/i/insid...arijuana-hotel
605 S. Normandie, sw corner of 6th

CNN story here: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/insid...arijuana-hotel


Interestingly, just two short blocks to the west is the Woman's Christian Temperence Union, the history of which has been written of here before. That the organization still exists amazes me, no less than does the survival of its current headquarters, a great Craftsman house at 551 S. Kingsley:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TT...91408%20AM.jpgGoogle Street View
The WCTU is the house to the right; I include a wider view here to show the house next door--now the
offices of a real-estate company--and the dome of the Wilshire Boulevard Temple in the distance at
Wilshire and Hobart. Perhaps Wilshire will always remain a narrow corridor of tall buildings and other
modern commercial structures, but it still surprises me that these houses, harking back to the brief
period of Wilshire as an upper-end residential district, remain only a block away.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TT...94600%20AM.jpgGoogle Street View

gsjansen Jan 18, 2011 3:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 4854725)
Beaudry, I noticed in this screen shot from 'Criss Cross' you caught a glimpse of the Dragon's Den.



http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/2...beaudryssp.jpg
Beaudry/Criss Cross




The Dragon's Den was a very interesting place.
The restaurant was located in the basement of the F. Suie One Company.
It was a favorite haunt of Walt Disney and the Marx Bros.
And it's brick walls were festooned with exotic murals. (I wish I had a good photo of the interior).




Below: This photo is dated 1949. The Dragon's Den was established in 1935.


http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/1...china11949.jpg
calisphere


http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4167/sden.jpg
calisphere





Below: Here's a good view of the rest of the street. Notice Jerry's Joynt (see my post# 1350) towards the end of the block.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7...hina1a1949.jpg
calisphere




...and one more.

I love the white building that is built out over the sidewalk.
If I remember correctly, underneath all the add-ons was one of the original adobes of 'Sonora Town'.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8...512china1b.jpg
calisphere


i know we are going back in time a bit, but, whilst rummaging around through the Library of Congress's Historic American Buildings site, i stumbled upon that white house shown in E_R's post about the Dragon's Den that used to reside at 516-522 1/2 North Los angeles Street.


La Casa De Don Vicente Lugo


1936 image

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/c...s/012479pv.jpg
Source: Library of Congress Historic American Buildings http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/c...s/012479pv.jpg

Architectural Drawings

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/c...eet/00000a.gif

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5203/...1efe439c_b.jpg
Sources: Library of Congress Historic American Buildings http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/c...eet/00000a.gif and http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/c...eet/00001a.gif

1937 data sheet - note the condition of the building - "fairly well preserved" ....not bad for a then 102 year old structure

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/c...7/data/002.gif
Source: Library of Congress Historic American Buildings http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/c...7/data/002.gif


1857 image of the house

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-1724A?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-1724A?v=hr

the house in 1873

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-2460?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-2460?v=hr

by 1890, the 2nd floor porch became partially enclosed

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-2847?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-2847?v=hr

In the 1890's the house became the home of Leeching Hung & Co

http://jpg1.lapl.org/00081/00081456.jpg
Source: LAPL http://jpg1.lapl.org/00081/00081456.jpg

in 1905 the Pekin Curio Store moved in

http://jpg1.lapl.org/00081/00081457.jpg
Source: LAPL http://jpg1.lapl.org/00081/00081457.jpg

the building in 1928. the building now houses the Canton Bazaar

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-36415?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-36415?v=hr

a 1947 view looking north east on los angeles street past Jerry's Joynt

http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/hb629007wt/FID5
Source: Calisphere http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/hb629007wt/FID5

In 1950 a plan was presented to the State Park Commission for the proposed renovation of the plaza district. The Lugo House was very much a part of the design proposal

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...T-PLA-004?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...T-PLA-004?v=hr

unfortunately, one year later.......................................

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...T-BUI-544?v=hr

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...168-021~1?v=hr

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...168-021~4?v=hr

Sources: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...168-021~4?v=hr, http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...168-021~1?v=hr and http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...T-BUI-544?v=hr

1952 image looking north west across the site of the Lugo House towards the intersection of Los Angeles Street and Sunset Boulevard on the North side of the Plaza

http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...NXKCBG476Q.jpg
Source: California State Library http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...NXKCBG476Q.jpg

bingmaps aerial of the site today

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5043/...e8946033_b.jpg

mdiederi Jan 18, 2011 5:14 PM

Excellent compilation on La Casa De Don Vicente Lugo, gsjansen! :tup:

ethereal_reality Jan 18, 2011 7:43 PM

Amazing post gsjansen.
I have often wondered about the history of the Lugo House.

Since you mentioned Jerry's Joynt in your post.
I thought I'd repost these these two photos of Jerry's Joynt.
Mostly because I think Jerry's Joynt is just too cool.



http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/1788/sj1d.jpg
usc digital archive




below: Here you can see a car pulling out of Ferguson Alley.
Notice the sign for the Jade Room. I would give anything to see the interior of this place.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6...rrysj21948.jpg
usc digital archive


There, now I'm happy. :)

gsjansen Jan 18, 2011 8:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 4854725)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5286/...13757a01_b.jpg

i love that the advertisement for jerry's joynt lists the address as ferguson alley

ethereal_reality Jan 18, 2011 8:49 PM

^^^Oh yes, that AD is great!

ethereal_reality Jan 18, 2011 9:15 PM

I just now found these three photographs of Ferguson Alley. All three photos are dated 1933.


http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6...nalley1933.jpg
usc digital archives




Below: Cars parked along Ferguson Alley in old Chinatown


http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3...alley1933a.jpg
usc digital archive


I am a bit surprised the alley is so hilly.




below: Looking through a gate out to Ferguson Alley. You can see a small drug store across the alley.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8...usonalley2.jpg
usc digital archive

gsjansen Jan 18, 2011 10:31 PM

those are great images of ferguson alley E_R. the 1st one is looking east towards alameda from the intersection of Calle de los negros. i found this image of jerry's joynt looking down calle de los negros

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...16-4-ISLA?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...16-4-ISLA?v=hr

an 1882 view looking north on calle de los negros towards ferguson alley

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-7127?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-7127?v=hr

another view taken sometime in the 30's looking north easterly on calle de los negros towards ferguson alley. this building is really beautiful! according to the sign on the building, just to the left of the gentleman posing, this is the Chinatown location of the YMCA

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-6686?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-6686?v=hr

here's a 1940 image of the same building, apparently now named old los angeles which claims to offer the shortest route to union station....i'm kinda guessin' that the Big "Y" at the far right indicates that this building is still the YMCA

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics19/00019099.jpg
Source: LAPL http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics19/00019099.jpg

GaylordWilshire Jan 18, 2011 10:56 PM

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TT...53826%20PM.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zilf/99...n/photostream/


great stuff, gs & ethereal-- I love that Jerry's bridged the cultures-- everything from steaks to chop suey. Here's a glimpse of the interior of the Jade Room bar.... Btw-- "That Strange Place of Elbowing" --what does it mean, and does it refer in the ad to Jerry's or to Ferguson Alley?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsjansen (Post 5130589)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5286/...13757a01_b.jpg

i love that the advertisement for jerry's joynt lists the address as ferguson alley


Los Angeles Past Jan 18, 2011 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsjansen (Post 5130242)
In 1950 a plan was presented to the State Park Commission for the proposed renovation of the plaza district. The Lugo House was very much a part of the design proposal

https://otters.net/img/lanoir/EXM-P-...IT-PLA-004.jpg
Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...T-PLA-004?v=hr


Very interesting post about the Lugo House, gsj! One thing that really puzzles me, though, is in this illustration above, an area just north of the Plaza Church is designated as the "Original Plaza." What's the story there? I'm not familiar with the existence of a Plaza that predates the one we all know east of the Plaza Church.

-Scott

mdiederi Jan 18, 2011 11:37 PM

I was just reading that the Lugo house was the first location for the predecessor to Loyola Marymount University.

Quote:

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/nov/25/local/me-8148/3

The last vestige of Old Chinatown, a block of buildings between Sunset Boulevard and Los Angeles, Alameda and Aliso streets, was demolished in 1949 to make way for the Hollywood Freeway and a park.

Included in that cluster of 22 razed buildings was the home of Vicente Lugo, the first two-story residence on the plaza. He donated the house to the parish priest in the 1850s. The house became the first home of St. Vincent's College (now Loyola Marymount University) in 1865, named for Lugo's patron saint, Vincent de Paul, a 17th century French priest who founded the Vincentian Fathers.

Also, Jerry's Joynt, a fabled restaurant-bar with an ornately carved bar painted in gold, black and red, fell to the wrecking ball.

GaylordWilshire Jan 18, 2011 11:56 PM

And then there's this:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_zXN_GwdMYMo/TT...YG7Rg~~_12.jpgebay.com

Actually, this picture is of the matchbook reproduced as an icebox magnet, available on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160467571753


According to the invaluable site http://www.latimemachines.com/new_page_41.htm, at some point, Jerry's Joynt seems to have moved to San Vicente and Wilshire, but I can't find any more information about that, even in city directories.

ethereal_reality Jan 19, 2011 12:21 AM

Thanks for posting that Jade Room postcard and matchbook GaylordWilshire.
I am sure you noticed the small text on the postcard that says the carved art behind the bar is 3600 years old. Now that's really impressive!





Below: I don't believe this photo of old Chinatown has been posted before. It is dated 1939.


http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2...withsigns1.jpg
usc digital archive

Can anyone pinpoint this location?

gsjansen Jan 19, 2011 1:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5130929)


http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2...withsigns1.jpg
usc digital archive

Can anyone pinpoint this location?

looking east on marchessault street across alameda. today,we would be looking directly at union station

http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics30/00034944.jpg
Source: LAPL http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics30/00034944.jpg

the same view in 1920

http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics23/00031191.jpg
Source: LAPL http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics23/00031191.jpg

a 1933 image looking north east on alameda at the intersection of marchessault street

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-35161?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-35161?v=hr

ethereal_reality Jan 19, 2011 1:42 AM

^^^Thank you gsjansen.
I had completely forgotten about Marchessault Street. I appreciate your help.

gsjansen Jan 19, 2011 1:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Los Angeles Past (Post 5130859)
Very interesting post about the Lugo House, gsj! One thing that really puzzles me, though, is in this illustration above, an area just north of the Plaza Church is designated as the "Original Plaza." What's the story there? I'm not familiar with the existence of a Plaza that predates the one we all know east of the Plaza Church.

-Scott

whoever presented the proposed plan, must have been hopped up on a josh house specialty :P

the 1849 ord map clearly shows that the plaza has always been where it is today.....fer goodness sakes, the whole Fahrvergnugen city is laid out based on the plaza's central location!

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-6320?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-6320?v=hr

none-the-lee, there is an interesting sentence in the wikipedia article on the plaza that points to a page on the los angeles department of public works web site that sayz.......................

The original pueblo was built to the southeast of the current plaza along the Los Angeles River. In 1815, a flood washed away the original pueblo, and it was rebuilt farther from the river at the location of the current plaza.

hmmmmmm, ok, i'll buy that, but the location of the supposed original plaza shown on the proposed plan certainly is not on the banks of the los angeles river, south and east of the current plaza.......but is shown north and west of the current plaza.......maybe they were trying to down play the importance of the plaza, so that it left open the door to it's possible destruction and removal at some future date.

why shouldn't we build a civic center monstrosity here?, why this isn't even the original site of the plaza, it's actually over there........................

ethereal_reality Jan 19, 2011 1:59 AM

Here is a view of old Chinatown in 1871.

This is the junction of Los Angeles Street, Arcadia Street and Aliso Street.
Extreme right is "calle de los negros".

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/254...atown1871s.jpg
usc digital archive

above: The stagecoach in the foreground is owned by the Lafayette Hotel.
The Lafayette Hotel was the second hotel in Los Angeles. The first hotel was the Bella Union (see below).




below: Here is the first hotel in Los Angeles, the Bella Union in 1865.



http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1...thotelinla.jpg
usc digital archive







below: This is the Bella Union Hotel a few years later in 1871.


http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/461...aunion1871.jpg
usc digital archive






below: Around 1876 the Bella Union became the St. Charles Hotel.


http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2...comesstcha.jpg
usc digital archive

above: Notice the very unique "Rifle and Pistol Shooting" sign.

gsjansen Jan 19, 2011 2:40 AM

by 1939, the bella union was becoming a tad rough.......

http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics33/00066057.jpg
Source: LAPL http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics33/00066057.jpg

i find it somewhat irksome that there are quite a few of these california historical landmark plaques placed around town, on, (or as the case may be, near :rolleyes: ), the site of where the historical landmark that is being honored no longer exists..............

http://jpg1.lapl.org/spnb01/00007114.jpg

sheeeeeesh..............

Los Angeles Past Jan 19, 2011 11:55 AM

Hmmm. Now that I really look closely at the Ord map, it looks to me like the Plaza may have originally been west of Main Street after all.

The red arrow on the Ord map points to Wine St. (today's Olvera Street). The present Plaza is located at Wine/Olvera's southern terminus. But that's not where the word "Plaza" is on the Ord map. It's clearly on the other side of Main Street. Where the Plaza is now is a blank space on the Ord map.

https://otters.net/img/lanoir/CHS-6320_mod.jpg
USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-6320?v=hr


Here's an 1873 map of old Los Angeles. Look above and to the right of the Old Plaza Church. It says "Church Plaza." And that just happens to be the exact spot that the word "Plaza" appears on the Ord Map.

https://otters.net/img/lanoir/ct001794.jpg
Library Of Congress http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.gmd/g4364l.ct001794


Granted, that's not the same location as the "Original Plaza" in the 1950 plan map. Clearly, that was intended to be a reconstruction of some sort. But it seems to me now that there is some credible historical basis for the existence of a much older Plaza on the west side of Calle Principal.

-Scott

gsjansen Jan 19, 2011 12:10 PM

the version of the ORD map that i had linked to, from the USC Digital Archive site, is actually an altered version of the original map. (the 1st indication of this, is that the streets are labeled with current names, such as broadway instead of fort street, and bunker hill being labled as such.....hell in 1849, Prudent Beaudry hadn't even settled in to town yet, and the centennial of the boston battle which the hill is named for wouldn't happen for another 26 years!)

a proper representation of the ORD map is here

http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics36/00067714.jpg
Source: LAPL http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics36/00067714.jpg

without the added verbiage, the compass center seems to be placed at the front door of La Placita Church,which fronts onto the plaza.

i'm not buying any of what the 1950 proposed plan is selling quite yet ;)

Sebisebster Jan 19, 2011 2:09 PM

My contribution
 
Intro: Hello everybody.
Since I discovered this Forum, I have been an enthusiast follower of all your work, and I have learned many things about this city, Los Angeles, which I love so much.

Thanks to you folks, and thanks to all LA lovers of its history, I have been able of seeing Los Angeles changing and growing up from 'El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora, la Reina de Los Ángeles, to the present day. In addition I must admit that all of your work has opened my appetite to create my own thread in a spanish forum like this one. (With Moderator's permission, here's the link: http://www.urbanity.es/foro/urbanism...y-cristal.html)

I tried to be a good student and I started my learning about Los Angeles with your help, and among others, with LAPL website and USC Digital Archives.
I never dared to post anything here since my english is not my natural born language, and I was very afraid of being severely criticized just for this simple reason.

But now all my fears are over and this is my first contribution. I hope you like it.


Now let's work.
I've always loved all this then and now pics. Do you remember the next following pictures?

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2...4thstreetf.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us



http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9...fbuildings.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I bet you do, because they have been already reposted on another post. The first one shows 4th street from Hill street looking west, and the second one shows almost the same corner in Downtown, both in 1939.
Well, if we put them all together, we get a very good panoramic of 4th and Hill intersection, looking northwest:


http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/536...street1939.jpg

Et voilà. A busy street, right? Pedestrians walking along the street, and many business. Amazing, isn't it? The present show us a very different and ugly reality.


http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/5...nd4thtoday.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us



It's the same corner, in 2009. It looks like an aseptic view because it seems to me that everything we saw in the picture above, has been cleaned, and vanished. Both California Plaza towers and the Angelus Plaza apartments are the symbols of an aseptic and dull redevelopment. Even the nostalgic Angel's Flight has changed.

Then and now: what do you think?

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2891/abcw.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Finally, here's another then and now excercise of the same area. Now is 4th street, looking east, corner of Olive:

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7523/pageda.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

First picture is from 1913, second is from 1923, and to come to an end, the last one show us a widened street with the base, on the left of the pic, of the Two California Plaza tower.
And that's all for now. More to come soon.

gsjansen Jan 19, 2011 4:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebisebster (Post 5131490)
Intro: Hello everybody.
Since I discovered this Forum, I have been an enthusiast follower of all your work, and I have learned many things about this city, Los Angeles, which I love so much.

Thanks to you folks, and thanks to all LA lovers of its history, I have been able of seeing Los Angeles changing and growing up from 'El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora, la Reina de Los Ángeles, to the present day. In addition I must admit that all of your work has opened my appetite to create my own thread in a spanish forum like this one. (With Moderator's permission, here's the link: http://www.urbanity.es/foro/urbanism...y-cristal.html)

I tried to be a good student and I started my learning about Los Angeles with your help, and among others, with LAPL website and USC Digital Archives.
I never dared to post anything here since my english is not my natural born language, and I was very afraid of being severely criticized just for this simple reason.

But now all my fears are over and this is my first contribution. I hope you like it.


........................... if we put them all together, we get a very good panoramic of 4th and Hill intersection, looking northwest:


http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/536...street1939.jpg


..............Then and now: what do you think?

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2891/abcw.jpg

First of all, let me just say............WOW! :banana: that 1939 comp image of the corner of 4th and hill, absolutely breathtaking!

Now with that out of the way......welcome to the thread Sebisebster, i looked at your site, and it is very nice. there are a few photos that i had not seen before, particularly with the Arroyo Seco Parkway, and the destruction associated with the construction of the harbor freeway. once again, welcome , i know i look forward to more of your contributions!

Los Angeles Past Jan 19, 2011 5:05 PM

The 1910 United States Post Office and Federal Building at Temple Square (right) is still my overall favorite edifice in historical Los Angeles. This particular image of it has been in the USC archives for a long time, but for as long as I've been checking this resource, the full image has been "404 Not Found" when I tried to view it. The link has recently been restored, but the image itself remains photo-reversed, so here it finally is as it should be seen!

https://otters.net/img/lanoir/CHS-14426_rot.jpg
USC Digital Library http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/search...hs-m30607.html

Notice anything missing? I do! As I am a biologist by trade, I'm curious about the obvious lack of urban avian fauna here - i.e. pigeons! They seem to be lacking in every historic photo of Los Angeles's public buildings that I've ever seen. I'm thinking they must have been actively poisoned in times past. That's the only explanation I can come up with for their conspicuous absence...

-Scott

Los Angeles Past Jan 19, 2011 5:13 PM

Also wanted to say "welcome" to Sebisebster! I, too, like the thread you started on the other site. I'm glad you like my Then & Now of Bunker Hill, and the old Court House photo postcard, too! Always nice to see one's work appreciated. ^^

-Scott

gsjansen Jan 19, 2011 5:31 PM

you want pigeons? i'll give ya some pigeons!

Images of the Los Angeles Pigeon Farm near north Figueroa Street in what would become the Cypress Park area. The farm was partially destroyed in 1912 and then completely in 1913-1914. The pigeon farm was owned by John W. Johnson and supplied squab to local restaurants and hotels. It had been started in 1892.

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics24/00046725.jpg
Source: LAPL http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics24/00046725.jpg

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-1496?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archive http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-1496?v=hr

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-1772?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-1772?v=hr

Elysian Park also had a pigeon farm. some images

looking across the pigeon farm towards lincoln heights

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-7087?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets.../CHS-7087?v=hr

http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics29/00064458.jpg
Source: LAPL http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics29/00064458.jpg

and what about the wild sort of pigeon..................................

pigeon hunting in pasadena

http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics15/00027112.jpg
Source: LAPL http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics15/00027112.jpg

mmmm mmmmm good! pigeons on the grill in pasadena

http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics15/00027111.jpg
Source: LAPL http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics15/00027111.jpg

but your right scott, it's truely amazing how few pigeons show up in any of these historic photos. here's an image of a woman feeding pigeons in what one would think would be a prime roosting spot for them, pershing square.......yet there are only 6 of 'em flyin' rodents in the photo....and their being fed to boot!

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...190-003~4?v=hr
Source: USC Digital Archives http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...190-003~4?v=hr

Los Angeles Past Jan 19, 2011 5:50 PM

.

gsjansen Jan 19, 2011 5:57 PM

but then again, this is los angeles, a different kind of pigeon prevails.......

flower street and wilshire boulevard

http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics41/00070284.jpg
Source: LAPL http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics41/00070284.jpg

Los Angeles Past Jan 19, 2011 5:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsjansen (Post 5131728)
you want pigeons? i'll give ya some pigeons!

LOL! Holy crap! *ducks and covers* :D

Really, man, that's great! Love it! ^^

-Scott

gsjansen Jan 19, 2011 7:39 PM

with all my recent research on the areas along los angeles street and through old china town, i now can make sense of this image that i saw sometime ago on the calisphere site

http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/hb867nb5nt/FID5
Source: Calisphere http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/hb867nb5nt/FID5

the billboard is on los angeles street with calle de los negros behind the billboard. the building behind the billboard is the building that i had found out was the YMCA. The map that is on the billboard is oriented with los angeles street at the bottom, running between ferguson alley on the left, and aliso street on the right. the map continues upward to alameda street.

chinatown map (redux)

http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics30/00034944.jpg

when Union Station was built, only the north eastern portion of china town was cleared, leaving the south western portion intact........only to b destroyed 10 years later by the 101 freeway which will slam right through........well the very spot where this billboard stood.

i guess a lot of long time businesses of chinatown, weren't drinking the christine sterling kool-ade and picking up and relocating to her spanking new, (albeit fire prone) china city.

Sebisebster Jan 19, 2011 8:39 PM

Thank you very much guys for your welcome, and for your coments!

To gsjansen: I'm glad you liked the compo pic. Sad to check out that everything has changed for bad or for worse, I dont know.

To Los Angeles Past: Yes I really love your then and now pics of Bunker Hill, because they have helped me a lot to learn about the area. Thanks once again.

Keep on with the good job you guys are doing here!

ethereal_reality Jan 19, 2011 11:01 PM

Welcome to the thread Sebisebster!
I enjoyed your post very much. :)




I've often wondered why L.A. had these pigeon farms.
In addition to the USC archive photos, I have seen numerous postcards of the pigeon farms.
I just thought they were shitty (literally) tourist attractions.

Gsjansen mentioned in his post they supplied squab to local restaurants.
It didn't occur to me that squab was pigeon.

I found this menu I had posted earlier, and sure enough squab is offered at the Hotel Westminster.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8492/aaawmmenu.jpg
NYPL


If you look closely, the menu is dated May 21, 1901.

ethereal_reality Jan 19, 2011 11:06 PM

The beautiful Hotel Westminster at Main & Fourth Street in 1900.

(no pigeons in this photo either...they're all inside being eaten)




http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/7...rhotelat4t.jpg
usc digital archive


I posted this photo earlier, but it's such a great photograph I knew you wouldn't mind. ;)

ethereal_reality Jan 19, 2011 11:35 PM

This small photo was on ebay a few months ago.
All that was written on the back was Los Angeles 1913.


http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/3...al1913ebay.jpg
ebay



below: A detail of the above photo.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4...onial1913a.jpg
ebay


To me, this building looks more like a nickelodeon than a theater.
I haven't been able to find any more information.

ethereal_reality Jan 20, 2011 12:05 AM

The Herman W. Wellman Bldg. at Spring & Fourth Street in 1908.

If you look down Fourth Street you can see the Hotel Westminster (at the corner of Main & Fourth)


http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/312...lmanbldgsp.jpg
usc digital archive

ethereal_reality Jan 20, 2011 12:20 AM

Since I reposted the Hotel Westminster......I couldn't resist revisiting this wonderful building.

The Hotel Nadeau at Spring & 1st Street was a rival of the Hotel Westminster (photo from 1905).

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/765...uatspring1.jpg
usc digital archive

sopas ej Jan 20, 2011 1:11 AM

Welcome to the forums, Sebisebster! Or shall I say Benvingut and Bienvenidos? :) Great posts, here and on the other site too.

I'm curious to know of your love and fascination with Los Angeles. Have you been here or lived here before?

JeffDiego Jan 20, 2011 1:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebisebster (Post 5131490)
Intro: Hello everybody.
Since I discovered this Forum, I have been an enthusiast follower of all your work, and I have learned many things about this city, Los Angeles, which I love so much.

Thanks to you folks, and thanks to all LA lovers of its history, I have been able of seeing Los Angeles changing and growing up from 'El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora, la Reina de Los Ángeles, to the present day. In addition I must admit that all of your work has opened my appetite to create my own thread in a spanish forum like this one. (With Moderator's permission, here's the link: http://www.urbanity.es/foro/urbanism...y-cristal.html)

I tried to be a good student and I started my learning about Los Angeles with your help, and among others, with LAPL website and USC Digital Archives.
I never dared to post anything here since my english is not my natural born language, and I was very afraid of being severely criticized just for this simple reason.

But now all my fears are over and this is my first contribution. I hope you like it.


Now let's work.
I've always loved all this then and now pics. Do you remember the next following pictures?

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2...4thstreetf.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us



http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9...fbuildings.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I bet you do, because they have been already reposted on another post. The first one shows 4th street from Hill street looking west, and the second one shows almost the same corner in Downtown, both in 1939.
Well, if we put them all together, we get a very good panoramic of 4th and Hill intersection, looking northwest:


http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/536...street1939.jpg

Et voilà. A busy street, right? Pedestrians walking along the street, and many business. Amazing, isn't it? The present show us a very different and ugly reality.


http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/5...nd4thtoday.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us



It's the same corner, in 2009. It looks like an aseptic view because it seems to me that everything we saw in the picture above, has been cleaned, and vanished. Both California Plaza towers and the Angelus Plaza apartments are the symbols of an aseptic and dull redevelopment. Even the nostalgic Angel's Flight has changed.

Then and now: what do you think?

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2891/abcw.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Finally, here's another then and now excercise of the same area. Now is 4th street, looking east, corner of Olive:

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7523/pageda.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

First picture is from 1913, second is from 1923, and to come to an end, the last one show us a widened street with the base, on the left of the pic, of the Two California Plaza tower.
And that's all for now. More to come soon.

Yes Sebisebster, Welcome. Wonderful photos!
Indeed the before-and-after photos are just plain depressing. One does need to remember that there are countless wonderful vistas, streets, bldgs. etc in present-day L.A. but SO MUCH that was fascinating, atmospheric and very human-scaled has been bulldozed to oblivion and replaced by blank ugliness - especially downtown and particularly around Bunker Hill.

malumot Jan 20, 2011 6:00 AM

Very true, Jeff Diego.

And I doubt if Sebisebster will get much argument from people who spend time on this thread. Aseptic to the core.

I bloviated on this theme a few pages back. And I still say the planners ripped the soul from this city - and many other.

Look at those pictures....what's with all the grass....and the trees on Fourth?

Don't get me wrong---- I like trees and grass. But in a few instances - and more specifically the very heart of a downtown - they just gunk up the works.

Personally I like all those buildings set right up to the sidewalk - and the stores on the lower levels, and the telephone poles and the overhead PE catenary and all the upfront, no-apologies, no-frills advertising on billboards for whiskey and cigars. And the neon...don't get me started on the neon.......LOL

The whole place looked 1000 times more lively and vibrant and energetic than it does now.

KevinW Jan 20, 2011 6:44 AM

Digital Preservation
 
I am interested in building a 3D model of Los Angeles with a time slider so you could go anywhere and see what it used to look like.

I figure with L.A. completely lacking in preservation, digital may be the only way to go. From all these pictures one can build L.A. from at least the beginning of the 20th century if not a little earlier.

This video game coming out, L.A. Noire, has already digitally built downtown to Hollywood in the 1930's, I just have to find an investor and a reason to build the rest.

Any ideas, history buffs?


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