It would be nice to know the actual percentage of people in the area who are against this. I used to live there and would have no issue with it whatsoever. If there is a majority neighbourhood view then fine, change it, but if once again we just have a vocal minority posing as the majority...

I realize we can't have referendums on every minor community issue but can't the city have some kind of random polling done?

yes, it is, and it is very unfortunate that the developers, and in fact all the people in the business don't seem to use new rendering technology to improve public understanding, but to better deceive it, and it is time to put a brake on that:
I hope the city council will follow action on it.

Still, I have issue with the City rendering:
the Broadway facade is 38m long and 36m height (~29 m before the recessing top levels): so it should look like a square, eventually an horizontal rectangle, but definitely not like a vertical rectangle.
Furthermore, the ratio height/width (of the street) is in the 1: the building shouldn't look outrageously higher than Broadway is wide.

here is how look the building massing
http://voony.files.wordpress.com/201...ize2.png?w=500
sketchup realized from developer application here, sketchup source there

The Developer rendering is probably deceiving but the "Citizen" rendering is way much worse!

I agree with Racc, that what is important is view from the street.
In fact I believe that developer should provide their 3D model to the city, in a format suitable for public consumption (that is typically Sketchup), and the work done by Dleung on this forum, should be done and maintained by the city.

That could provide useful and non distorted information for the public and keep all party honest...

At the end
the height of the building (relative to street level) is 36meters, a good ration with the Broadway width (Is it 99 foot at Main or 80foot?)...basically it is standard you could see in European city, and more noticeably in Paris (where height limit is 37m ) where there is roughly a ratio height/width of 1 (not including mansard roof) , what is troublesome here is the narrow side on Broadway, making the masing not very pleasant as seen from Broadway.

Also, at this time the building is surrounded by parking lot, so look more massive, but people need to envision it with a 30 meters streetwall along Broadway

a post on it at:

http://citycaucus.com/2012/02/why-ni...ned-and-built/

Another story about the opposition from RAMP from cbc.ca.

Better to have the vocal, engaged minority dictate what is done rather that the apathetic majority.

It always makes more sense to try to involve the majority than to consult with an utterly polarized minority. It's actually impossible for people to be engaged with everything, so the majority will always seem apathetic when issues don't mess with their daily lives.

NIMBYs will never bother about a development 3 blocks down the road, because it doesn't affect them. The majority will only get involved when a particular issue significantly affects their daily livelihood, but fortunately Canada is a pretty darn stable country so the majority needs not to mobilize. Something of this scale - the "controversial" construction of a high rise - lies so low on most people's list that it's either "I'm ok with this" and "I am not too sure about this development".

The people that REALLY wants it to go through are only the developers and business interests involve, some figures in City Hall, and certain schools of urbanists. The only people that REALLY goes against it are these protesters and some other schools of urbanists. Most are actually in the ambivalent middle.

Sooner or later we need to bring modest midrise development to most of Kingsway and other main streets. I agree the project is not perfect, but I am incredulous at the comments that it's 'a highrise' and 'ultra-high desity' and such. Ultra high density is the Burj Khalifa. This is a mid rise. I wish people would get a grip on reality. It might be ugly to some people, it might affect the 'small town' characteristic that geezers and hipsters like. It is just a building!

The people that REALLY wants it to go through are only the developers and business interests involve, some figures in City Hall, and certain schools of urbanists. The only people that REALLY goes against it are the people who live in the neighbourhood.

Fixed that for you.

Quite frankly the people who live in the neighbourhood should have the right to determine what goes there. Thery're the ones who have invested their money and time to make the city livable, which civic governments love to crow about.

I went the last major ramp meeting during the civic election and there a probably 100 people. most of the ramp members I spoke with really did not understand the larger picture, it was really just a few focused individuals (recent mount pleasanters) who have focused their attention on the obvious height and traffic. When I told them it was mostly inline with that the Mount Pleasant Community plan they were like 'oh I did not know that'. As for Meggs and the other hopeful counsel member either said, we should look at it or that it has followed what was recommended in the community plan.

what really blows me away is that a good chunk of the group are condo owners from Uno, Stella and Sophia. They are losing thier views. The city allows for more density which in turn allows them to move here and but when it effects them, they rant and rave about how bad it will be and fail to realize they are only living here because the city allowed thier building to built.

Im not saying this building is perfect, but this is a major piece to the revitalization of this area. It needs to move forward. Im hoping to be there tonight at the meeting.

And I am one of them and I want to go through as do others I have talked to. So you are wrong that only the developers want it to happen.

I also live there and strongly support the project - but honestly whatnext, I'd disagree that I have any more right to determine the project than someone from Surrey.

The amount of housing supply available in Vancouver affects everyone in the region - just because the benefits to others are more diffuse than the concentrated (perceived) costs to people in the neighbourhood doesn't mean that locals should have control over everything.

The majority would be engaged if the costs to them weren't incredibly diffuse - they may benefit significantly, but because the benefits are spread across a huge number of people there is little incentive for any individual to organize.

Corporate lobbyists are also an 'engaged minority' compared to the relatively apathetic majority, for the same reasons.

You do not know this neighborhood. Density is already here and that is why people move to this neighborhood, so they can enjoy the benefits that come with living in a densely populated neighborhood. So in a way the neighborhood has already endorsed this project.

The vast majority of the the people in this neighborhood know very little about this project except for the sign that sits on the property. If given the facts about not just the dizzying height of the building and the Hong Kong type density that the community activists keep harping on about, and were informed about the benefits brought about by density, there would be strong support for this project.

The more density we pack in the area the better. I can't wait for the day when Kingsgate Mall will be retransformed into a much better shopping center.

As long as we have people moving in the area, this will give businesses a good incentive to set up shop.

The hearing went until 11:30 and yet only 1 out of 181 registered speakers was able to speak. The hearing will start again at 6PM tomorrow.

It's mindboggling that this was the last of 6 items on the agenda - it meant that a few hundred people waited hours for no reason. This really should have been scheduled on its own.

(bold mine)

No doubt that was the Mayor and his Councillors intention.

Ya it was ridiculous last night. I left at 9:45 after wanting to pull my hair out listening to people complain about a god damn tennis bubble. I also wanted to strangle Adrienne Carr for her retarded questions. I'll be there for a bit tonight, after the 1300 Richards Open House.

did anyone make it to the second meeting, i went to the open house for the restaurant and brewery at the restored yellow building on 7th since I will be facing the restaurant.

I presume you're talking about Scotia and 7th. This space I thought was being occupied by Goh Ballet, but I guess not.

It's going to be a brewery, restaurant with a 500 sq ft outdoor patio and several artist studios. This will bring some more lively entertainment into the area.