Algonquin College Centrepointe | Proposed
 

http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/...appId=__7IP964

Proposed Development

The City of Ottawa has offered the subject lands to Algonguin College as part of a transaction agreement that would allow the College to expand over Woodroffe with a Centre for Construction Trades and Building Sciences (CCTBS) facility. The facility will be built to a LEED Platinum standard by incorporating specific energy, atmosphere, water, indoor environmental quality, land-use and environmentally friendly materials objectives. Once constructed, the facility will be used to teach such building techniques to College students.

The CCTBS building will consist of three or four floors above ground and have an area of approximately 14,864 m2 (160,000 ft2). One storey (approx. 5,481 m2) of the proposed building will accommodate high bay shops that will be visible from Woodroffe, while the remaining storeys (approx. 3,112.15 m2) will be occupied by classrooms. Although the Site Plan submitted in support of this application shows additional buildings, this application is only for the Algonquin CCTBS Building component. No new parking is being proposed as a result of this development. The proposed development will rely heavily on the existing transit station and existing parking available at designated areas throughout the campus.

As part this development, the CCTBS will be integrated with a realigned and grade separated (buried) transit station that will accommodate buses and light rail. The redevelopment of the transit station supports the Official Plan vision as well as recently prepared mixed-use development concept for the Centrepointe area. The Site Plan will also accommodate the extension of Navaho Drive and College Avenue as signalized intersections crossing Woodroffe Avenue to the north and south of the site plan area. A glass pedestrian bridge is envisioned above Woodroffe Avenue connecting the existing buildings east of Woodroffe to the CCTBS building and transitway. Each of these associated but independent municipal projects are subject to various studies and processes that will be considered as part of any approval of the CCTBS site plan.


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Not bad, but the underground station worries me...It feels like St. Laurent all over again...

It doesn't look like a hub befitting a light rail terminus. I can't see this as a place where people transfer between trains and buses. Maybe they're planning another terminal farther down with more space to do this properly? There isn't even a way for a bus to turn around.

I'm pretty sure buses continue all the way to LF. But I agree with both of you...not too keen on another bus tunnel.

http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa...s/image016.jpg

I love the underground station idea. Keeps you out of the rain and snow better than the others do.

As for the rail/ bus thing, I imagine it will be a while before that becomes an issue and I also suspect by that point you might see right through to Barrhaven all at once.

If not, they can simply put the buses further down...

I can see the underground station if it was a purely LRT station, but not as a shared bus/train station. The rendering just doesn't make sense.

If this were to be an LRT terminus as per the plan, there has to be room for the train to switch tracks, or configure some sort of centre platform separate from the bus platforms.

Also, if Baseline Road is supposed to become a transit priority route as indicated in the plan (which looks like it uses Navaho Drive to dip down to the station) there needs to be some sort of correspondence between the two routes and a way for buses to go from one to another.

http://ottawa.ca/residents/public_co...twork_en-1.jpg

I agree. It doesn't look as if the design of the proposed station has taken into account the new rapid transit plan. If we look at the future transit plan, we see

http://REade.fileave.com/BaselineSta...ne-phase-4.jpg

Note that the baseline BRT jogs south to Baseline Station. This is not accounted for in the proposal. The new proposal shows no transit crossing the bus/LRT line.

The current bus flow through Baseline Station is shown by the yellow (Transitway), blue and red lines in the following picture. I have separated the east of Baseline Station (red) and the west of Baseline Station (blue) routes for clarity (I hope).

http://REade.fileave.com/BaselineSta...affic-flow.jpg

Notice that the buses from/to Baseline, east of the station travel on Navaho. To the west, buses use Woodroffe to get to Baseline Road. From the future transit plans already presented, it appears as if that arrangement will continue.

Then, just to muddy the waters (and add more colours:rolleyes: ), I added a green line to represent the new station and route. I would like to see this built only for rail.

Since there is only an accepted plan to build the Building Sciences (BS) building, then there would still be room on the surface to have the equivalent of the current Station above the train station. This would allow for transfers between the two systems. The buses could mostly follow the new roads (black lines).

However, I have also added a fushia line. This represents where I would like to see the blue line accessing Baseline Road to the west. This would give better access to the new buildings and the folks of Centre Point. It would also make use of an existing intersection and off-load the transit from the Woodroffe/Baseline intersection.

Note that I have also continued the green line south of the station. In my mind, this is the train route. I am not keen on building it to be a separated bus route and then later paying to convert it to rail. It should just be built as rail from the start. While that is happening, the buses can continue to use Woodroffe and the new ground level bus station (powder blue line).

I did find the proposed site plan interesting though.

http://REade.fileave.com/BaselineSta...-Site-plan.jpg

I expect that the future development area of the ‘old’ campus will be for a large building. With the main labs (machine shop, wood working, etc.) out of the old ‘A’ building, it could be torn down and the space added to the future development area.

Personaly, with all of the parking lots and empty space on the old campus, I don't think that the college should have been given the land, but that is water under the bridge.

Speaking of bridges, is that bridge really going to be an almost 50 metre span?

I don't think that the new Algonquin Station is well thought out in its present presentation.

As part this development, the CCTBS will be integrated with a realigned and grade separated (buried) transit station that will accommodate buses and light rail. The redevelopment of the transit station supports the Official Plan vision as well as recently prepared mixed-use development concept for the Centrepointe area. The Site Plan will also accommodate the extension of Navaho Drive and College Avenue as signalized intersections crossing Woodroffe Avenue to the north and south of the site plan area. A glass pedestrian bridge is envisioned above Woodroffe Avenue connecting the existing buildings east of Woodroffe to the CCTBS building and transitway. Each of these associated but independent municipal projects are subject to various studies and processes that will be considered as part of any approval of the CCTBS site plan.

Yes, it is early in the design process and many things need to be studied. However, is it ever too early to start thinking of the requirements?

The presented information is, I would guess, more of a 'block diagram'. It basically shows that a buried Transitway station would be included and it's general position.

What I am suggesting is part of a future step: Taking into account the transit system which must be accommodated by the station. I am suggesting that in order to get two bus lines crossing (the west-east BRT and the south-west Transitway) as well as including a terminus for the LRT line (which I hope will be extended south), there could be a need to have two levels. One for trains and one for buses.

Notice all the underground parking right next to the transit station.:( The zoning includes an exception from the restriction that there should be no parking lots within 600m of a transit station.:koko: If the City will not stick to its guidelines, it is going to wind up with a traffic mess. Woodroffe and Baseline are already crowded during the rush hours.

staff report on the Algonquin College Transitway station

it explains some of the phasing and cost info

ALGONQUIN COLLEGE EXPANSION - CENTREPOINTE October 28th, 2008

Overview of Phasing and Timelines
Note: to be read in conjunction with corresponding phasing diagrams

PHASE 1 (Temporary Transit plan) - Scheduled for Completion by August 2011

Stage 1A – October 2008-March 2009 (5 months)
Existing Baseline station
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...s/image019.gif

Stage 1B – April 2009 - September 2009 (6 months)

• Build new temporary transit station to the west of the existing station with 3 access routes to Woodroffe (Navaho Dr., College Ave. & new access point south of College Ave.)
• Existing platform and bus lanes to west of platform together with the provision of a temporary passenger area to west of bus lanes can be used as an interim temporary station to free up the area between existing platform and Woodroffe for CCTBS construction start (e.g. piling operations) by as early as June 2009 while temporary station is still under construction.
• City to modify its parking lots prior to construction of temporary station.
• When temporary station is complete, buses cease using existing Baseline station and are relocated to new temporary station to free up the entire CCTBS site and future BRT/LRT tunnel site for construction.
• 2 of the 3 road connection points at Woodroffe must be maintained at all times for bus transit (i.e. Navaho Dr. & College Ave. cannot be closed at same time).

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Stage 1C – August 2009 -August 2011 (24 months)

• Construct new CCTBS building and pedestrian bridge. [note: if an interim temporary station is used, the portion of the CCTBS site between existing station platform & Woodroffe would be clear to allow construction to start in that area by as early as June 2009].
• Relocate watermain on Navaho and construct storm sewers from Pinecrest Creek to south of Tallwood below future BRT/LRT.
• Build College Ave. overpass (road bridge) for future grade separation.
• Construct transit tunnel structure from south edge of Navaho Dr. to south edge of College Ave. Tunnel to be covered as much as possible depending on funds available from City (minimum 100’ wide covered area to allow for pedestrians to access CCTBS building from transit station).
• Build Tallwood overpass (road bridge) and Transitway from north side of Tallwood to Norice.
• CCTBS operational August 2011. Vehicular access to be provided on College Ave. for drop-offs and servicing in dedicated lane. Limited on site parking is to be determined.
• Temporary transit station still in use. Pedestrian traffic from buses to be directed over covered tunnel through CCTBS building and pedestrian bridge to get to east side of Woodroffe.

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PHASE 2 (Interim Transit plan) - Scheduled for Completion between 2013-2015

Stage 2A – August 2011-2013

• Cover tunnel completely (if not already done in Stage 1C) and add central platform.
• Build Navaho overpass (road bridge) and grade separate Transitway from Baseline to south edge of Navaho.
• Grade separate Transitway from south edge of College Ave. to north edge of Tallwood & build new transit station south of College Ave with above-grade pedestrian link to CCTBS building and 2 new ramps from grade separated Transitway up to new station. Transit station to be integrated within building, with escalators leading from below grade transit level to above grade pedestrian link(s).
• Potential to build an Algonquin College facility south of College Ave. [potential to start construction in 2010 when new station and ramps are being built in that location].
• Build new bus link (to be used by local bus routes only - primarily Route 118). from new station at College to Constellation (potential to use existing parking lot access road at 100 Constellation).
• Transitway buses cease to use the temporary transit station and are relocated to the grade separated Transitway and use new station at College.
• Buses go through tunnel adjacent to CCTBS, but do not use this area as a transfer point.
• Area for Algonquin College Phase 2 buildings west of transit tunnel is now available for construction.

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...s/image025.jpg

Stage 2B - August 2013-2015

• Construct new Algonquin College Phase 2 buildings west of the new Transitway, including service courts and parking. Potentially new underground parking below new Algonquin College buildings.
• Potential to coordinate development of City’s Main Street concept with retail and mixed use buildings (CTC areas west of Algonquin College Phase 2 buildings) as a joint City/College initiative
• Algonquin College Phase 2 buildings west of Transitway are operational.
• New buildings are linked to CCTBS with pedestrian bridges.
• Access to all vehicles on College Ave. is to be determined.
• Extend Ben Franklin access road including bridge across Transitway. Potential to build shared use parking structure linked to Ben Franklin extension [potential to build during the construction of the transit station building in 2A].

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...s/image027.gif

PHASE 3 (Longterm Transit plan) 2016 onwards

Stage 3 - 2016 onwards

• LRT tracks are built into the Transitway.
• LRT is operational. Centre platform is in the tunnel, and has escalators leading to main courtyard level.
• Build City’s Main Street concept with retail and mixed use buildings if not initiated as part of Stage 2B.
• Potential areas identified for future expansion for both City and/or Algonquin College.

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In that report, the numbers don't add up for me. I looked through costing tables 1 through 4 and they seem to have many repeated steps. I assume that once the Navaho watermain is moved, for example, it doesn't need to be moved again. Also, there seems to be a $98.5M BRT cost that might be the $68.5M cost that is supposed to be included (maybe transcription error). And, ofcourse, the $65.5M would already have the contingency and engineering added so it couldn't just be inserted.

Any way, if I add up the unique items, the cost is 'only' about $134M - not the $185M.

Could some one else take a look and let me know if I'm reading it wrong?

I think you're right... there's a transcription error and then engineering/contingency added on top of engineering/contingency. Note also that the contingency is only 10% this time around and it is applied only against the subtotal, whereas the TMP draft from April had a 30% contingency applied on top of the 15% engineering.

That would be a nice contract to get... $50M extra from adding errors.


Great design too - students will have to climb/ascend the equivalent of 3 storeys to get to the pedestrian overpass from the depths of the tunnel.

Thanks. I thought that I must be going crazy. I just found it incredible that Staff could put forward such errors. I'm glan to hear it is not just me.

At the Joint meeting of the Transportation and Transit Committees, at about 00:10 (after 14.5 hours of meeting), the committees passed the plan so they will be recommending Council accept it as is. That's $185M to move the station 30m and put a few hundred metres of the Transitway under ground.

I think that the Councillors just don't understand anything technical so they rely on Staff to guide them. Unfortunately, Staff are not as consciencious as required at times.

In this case, Staff had been told that the numbers made no sense, so they re-formatted the tables to make it 'look simpler', but it does not look as if they actually reviewed the numbers. In the new tables, the numbers still didn't add up but after midnight the Councillors didn't notice. (Although, I doubt that Councillors would add up columns of numbers at any other time either. They just assume that the addition is correct.)

It would be nice to get ahold of the presentation that staff gave to the Councillors that evening.

Yes, I think the design will be problematic in the future. It doesn't seem to account for the buses AND trains going through the tunnel and the transfer station appears to be much too small for 10,000p/h movements.

Notice also that it does not appear to take into consideration of the proposed Baseline BRT which will be entering from Navaho.

I don't know if the height of the bridge will be that much of a problem. Since the transfer station is under College Ave., it is likely that most students will continue to cross Woodroffe at the intersection. It is a much shorter route.

Why are we spending so much to accomplish so little? To support intensification around the station? I fail to understand the merits of letting intensification cost the taxpayer so much money.

The short answer is: Because Staff has gone wild.

There was a Concept plan for the Centrepointe Town Centre (CTC) developed in 2006-7 through a series of 5 public workshops. The resulting plan was approved by Council Nov. 14, 2007.

Also at that time, Council voted to give some land to Algonquin College for their Construction and Building Sciences Building (BSB). Also, Council voted to give $5M (gross) toward a pedestrian bridge across Woodroffe, between the new BSB and the old ‘C’ Building. Council, in principle, agreed that the new BSB should be tightly integrated with the Baseline Transit Station.

Then Staff went wild:

Without further public consultation. The result is an “Updated CTC – 2008”.

http://REade.fileave.com/BaselineSta...Transition.jpg

Notice the differences: the transit station is not on the surface; a building has been removed to create a new "public Focal Point" instead of the one which was on the Main Street; the park has shrunk.

But don’t worry:

Once everything is approved and construction is underway, there might be a public meeting.:koko:

Any way, Algonquin got the land under the current station so we need to move by spring 2009. So we are building a temporary station – which will be built to permanent standards, according to staff when questioned by Wilkinson about the cost, because it will be there until 2013. This will be a $6.35M temporary surface station.

Things get worse from there. The temporary station will need to be removed by 2013 because it will be built on land which Staff has also deemed as Algonquin’s. This is so that there can be Algonquin buildings on both sides of the final station, thus ‘integrating’ it. Algonquin expects that they will need to build their Health Sciences Building starting in 2013. We need to have our new tunnel and station by then to vacate their land.

Oh, and Algonquin didn’t like having the surface transit station, as depicted in the approved plan, so it must be buried. Algonquin was given the surface and air rights above the tunnel so they could have a courtyard. This courtyard will replace the “Public Focal Point” of the approved plan. (Also, since this is a larger area and park-like, the public park has been shrunk.)

An extra cost for burying the Transitway is that the Pinecrest Creek (SWM) must be buried under the new tunnel. I have to assume that it will still be high enough to flow.

At the Meeting on Wednesday, Councillor Chiarelli brought in a couple of people from the Community Association who stated that they were in favour of burying the busway.

In fact, that is what is getting buried – the busway. The four lanes of bus Transitway will run through the tunnel adjacent to the new BSB, but will not stop there: The transfer stop is planned to be at, and under, College Avenue. This will be a station similar to what exists at Westboro Station with local buses on the bridge and the Transitway below.

As far as integrating the station and buildings: There will be no more direct access from the buildings to the station than there is at Billings Bridge. Although the buildings will have doors on the courtyard side of the building.

All for the low, low price of $185M!

I have found this to the case in numerous years of dealing with Staff. The way the City is structured these days is that the tech/math savvy staff members don't liase much with outside applicants/consultants/members of the public. This is often left to the Planning Dep't staff, many of whom are mere gatekeepers of the information and are passing on the information. I have questioned or corrected data numerous times and City Staff often don't have answers.

This, to their credit, could be put down to the fact that they end up spending a lot of time on councillors requests for information or other related info.

My advice is to try and verify and cross reference information provided in many cases by City Staff. In almost all cases they are not willingly passing on providing false information.....

Centrepointe's urban makeover - Taller, denser, busier
With Algonquin College expanding across Woodroffe Avenue - and the Baseline transitway station destined to be rebuilt as a transfer point between buses and light-rail trains - Centrepointe's suburban sea of parking lots, empty fields and low rises is set to become a lot more urban. Patrick Dare takes a look at the $185-million plan

Ottawa Citizen

Friday, November 21, 2008

OTTAWA - The city's plan for taller and denser construction around Ottawa's transit system includes a significant test case: the Centrepointe commercial district around the Baseline transitway station.

Under the city's latest transit plan, Baseline is to become an even more significant transit hub than it already is, across Woodroffe Avenue from Algonquin College. It's to become a transfer point between trains and buses, built into a major expansion of the college, and to serve a new city archives building, Ben Franklin Place and existing and planned commercial and residential buildings nearby.

The biggest change is that the city is planning to dig underground to handle the mix of increased bus, pedestrian and commuter-rail traffic intersecting at the station.

The project is complicated and expensive, estimated to cost $185 million when finished around 2015. But the councillor for the area, Rick Chiarelli, and officials from Algonquin College next door, say the station would be a smooth transfer point for western transit riders, spur further development in the immediate vicinity of the station, create a focal point for Centrepointe and get thousands of additional riders onto the city's transit system.

The project won approval from a joint meeting of the transportation and transit committees this week and now goes to city council for approval.

The new station would be the point at which the electric light-rail vehicles coming from downtown reach the end of the line, so that's where many riders would transfer to buses. It would also be integrated into two new Algonquin College buildings, the $65-million Centre for Construction Trades and Building Sciences and the $35-million Health Sciences Education Facility.

The station project immediately requires moving the bus-transit station, shifting pipes and sewers and doing excavations, which would cost a total $23.6 million. The rest of the project, including a $98.5-million busway and tunnel, would be built in future stages.

The time pressure on this project is due to the fact that Algonquin College plans to have its trades building ready by September of 2011 and the city's archives building is supposed to be ready by the same time.

The college's building is to be constructed on land occupied by the current transit station, so the station has to come down.

By going underground, the city would be building the transit system right into the college, which has a full-time student population of 15,000. The main campus buildings would be linked via a pedestrian overpass over Woodroffe Avenue to the new trades building and the health science building that's to be built in the future.

People from the college, or arriving via transit, would be able to walk into a piazza and then on to nearby buildings in Centrepointe, which include the Centrepointe Theatre and Centrepointe Library, the city archives building, the City of Ottawa's large office tower, stores and residences.

Part of the plan is that a parking garage would be built and the huge surface parking lots at Centrepointe developed with buildings of some height, to create more of an employment area - turning a suburban part of the city into something more urban.

Without going underground, the whole area would become a noisy, sprawling intersection of buses and trains, with rails and busway separating the college buildings from the Centrepointe community, says Mike Rushton, director of physical resources at Algonquin. He says the College-Baseline site is a natural fit for taller buildings that meet the city's goal of intense development. But he says that building has to be integrated into the neighbourhood and the greenspace planned over the tunnel at Baseline would help that integration.

There was some negative reaction to this project at City Hall on Wednesday as councillors heard from the public about the city's transportation master plan, which includes the station.

Klaus Beltzner, who lives in Manotick, said the city should simply keep building commuter rail to Barrhaven, rather than constructing such an expensive transfer station. He said that if the city is going to go underground at Baseline there will be demands for underground service along the Ottawa River Parkway, as well, and the whole thing will become too expensive.

"It's a huge amount of money," said David Jeanes, of public-transit lobby group Transport 2000. He said that the city has in the past overbuilt some transit stations, such as Lincoln Fields. He said this has the potential to become a white elephant if the rail system is in fact extended beyond Baseline - as it might be someday to serve the Civic campus of The Ottawa Hospital, which may be moved to Woodroffe Avenue and Hunt Club Road. If rail were extended, there'd be no need for such a large transfer station.

Reaction at Centrepointe has been positive, says Mr. Chiarelli. He says people are pleased that the community may get a more substantial town centre, but with some greenspace. He notes that it isn't often that neighbours are cheering on development, but that's what's happening here.

Councillor Alex Cullen, who chairs city council's transit committee, says the project is large, complex and more expensive than anticipated. But he says the city must protect the transit corridor and help Algonquin get its trades building going as quickly as possible.

For the purposes of comparison, the current works at Bayshore station (adding a new platform, 4 lanes of busway and an overhead walkway) will cost $7-8M.

Can you blame them for not wanting a surface transit station though? This was all planned when Option 4-unaltered Scenario 3 was the way-it-was-going-to-be; remember that there would not have been LRT for another 14-15 years, so they were looking at the prospect of another decade-and-a-half of something like the current station, and even after that there still would have been buses aplenty.

That poor creek... it's been done-in so many times it's not funny. And the NCC went along last summer trying to 'restore ecological function' in a few places.

Naturally.

When I look at the plan (2A) it looks to me as if the tunnel will be a drive-through tunnel for BRT and will only be put in use as a station once LRT is operational (there even appears to be a central platform). Maybe it'll be made five lanewidths wide :). The BRT station is as you say at College Ave.

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...s/image025.jpg

But wait, it gets better... they're going to build a new Archives down the road at Tallwood/Meadowlands, where there will be another bi-level station. And guess what that station will have? A bus ramp! Yes, that's right! A space-consuming, land-sterilizing bus ramp right next to the new Archives building! Nevermind the fact that the Transitway will have de facto ramps at Norice just down the way AND also at Baseline.

Insanity!

It is like we have a highly successful example of LRT implementation, namely Calgary, and we ignore how they achieve success. Spend money to build track, not on elaborate stations. Are we building an elaborate transfer station at Baseline so that we will never extend LRT beyond that point? For the price tag involved, it seems that way.

Am I also correct that we will be eliminating the only Park n Ride lot on the proposed east-west route?

I look at Calgary's C-Train, and note that everything is planned so that track can be extended in the future, and many of the suburban stations have adjacent Park n Ride lots.

One further question, how are we accomodating both LRT and buses travelling through to Lincoln Fields? Am I not correct that the Baseline-Lincoln Fields section will handle both trains and buses, in order to reduce transfers in the westend? Or has this changed again?

The funny thing is that many of Calgary's newest stations are actually rather nice, with high arching glass and mixed steel and wood construction. It definitely beats the rusting red pipes, tinted glass and salt-sprayed concrete we get around here. Of course, with fewer pricey overhead walkways and bridges to build, they've got a little cash left over for such things.

Right you are! Except the real reason is to allow the Pinecrest garage to be used to send buses southwards to Barrhaven, rather than build a new garage in Barrhaven (or just using the 416). So rather than just running LRT to Bayshore and solving a whole whack of actual problems in one shot, they're going to try to have both buses and trains going inbound to Lincoln Fields together. Will Kanatans ever be able to find a seat? Will Barrhavenites be delayed several minutes while Kanatans board? But wait, there's more - there's always more... the April 2008 report indicates that there will be a new $20M underpass of the Queensway at Queensway Station for either BRT or LRT (with the other using the existing underpass).

Yup. The TEMPORARY Baseline Station will be a surface station, similar to the current one. As I mentioned, it will be built to permanent standards because it will be active from summer 2009 to spring 2013 (when Algonquin wants its other parcel of land). I have not heard whether they will be 'cloning' the existing station and re-using the steel and glass from the current one. I have my doubts since they will want to completely finish the new station before shifting the service to it. Even though they could use some temporary shelters during the transfer. Too bad since it could lower the cost of the 4-year station.

The over-head walkway over Woodroffe is a separate cost. Although the Council offered $5M gross, the contract that Staff wrote up simply states that the City is responsible for building and maintenance of the pedestrian bridges. There is no cost cap, and there could be up to four bridges if Algonquin builds all of its buildings.

Absolutely! I would like most of the transit and road system buried. Think of the bike-paths and parkland we could have. The problem is that there should be a reality-check on the amount we can spend vs. what would be nice.

I'm concerned that they will find that burying the creek that deep will adversly affect its flow. It is used as a SWM feature so it is important to have a proper flow.

As I understand it, the tunnel will be four lanes wide + a row of columns along the centre. There are NO doors planned from the adjacent buildings into the tunnel. It is only four lanes of Transitway. It is four lanes because it is in close proximity to the four lanes at the new College Station and can not be narrower if buses are running through the tunnel.

Notice that there is NO provision for running both trains and buses through the tunnel. It looks as if there is to be no bus link from Baseline to Lincoln Fields, according to this plan. Besides, if there is a station within the tunnel, do you want all those diesel buses going through it?

The rails will eventually replace the two outside bus lanes and the two inner lanes will be converted into the central platform. The only access to this central platform will be vertically to the courtyard above or vertically into the College Station. People will need to walk outdoors from the stairs/escalator/elevator in the courtyard to the buildings. Once the City builds more bridges, the connections will be to these.

How will the rail conversion be done? The buses will need to be removed from the tunnel and run on the surface. There is nowhere for the buses to run. Maybe they could come up the ramps at College, loop out through the traffic along Woodroffe and come in Navaho to the ramps down to the Transitway again. OH, WAIT! There are no ramps from Navaho. There is currently no conversion plan as far as I know.

Also, by 2031, the prediction is that Baseline/College Station will be a 10,000 passenger per hour facility. The station will require 6 bus bays and 12 lay-up bays: I just don’t see that capacity in the presented design. Maybe the ramps could be widened so that they act as lay-up spaces as well.

I agree 100%. At the very, very least, the station should not be under College, but under Navaho to try to balance the spacing a bit.

Yes, the Park & Ride (P&R) will be gone from 2013 until a shared Algonquin/P&R multi-story parkade is built.

For me, this is just a bad plan. It is not well thought out. The cost tables gives a good indication of how little work has been put into this plan.

Staff really, really wants to keep a complete, segregated, west-east bus route. Part of that route is the link from Baseline/College Station to Lincoln Fields.

I do find it odd that the final link from Pinecrest to the S-W Transitway has been pushed off until Phase 2 by Staff. Without that link, the buses are forced out Queensview into traffic. Wilkinson has offered the suggestion that that missing link should be moved up into Phase 1, Increment 1. This, of course, will increase the $1.7B price of Inc. 1 which has already been declared as too expensive.

There is little chance that there will be a train running to Bayshore. I, like you, think that it would be the best idea, but everything that is being built now precludes it in the short term.

Based on the $20M price, it sounds like a narrow train tunnel. It will be interesting to see some actual design of the station at the Queensway. (I have always been curious as to why there is a Queensway station since there must be better places to capture walk-up riders. People can't walk along the Queensway.)

Just an update on costs: During 2008, $68.5M was approved by Council for first phase construction. This is the stuff that needs to be done ASAP so that Algonquin can have their land. I believe this involves the building of a temporary Station just west of the existing Station, complete with new ramps to the existing Transitway, as well as digging a trench, complete with SWM pipes under it, and building one structure to continue Navaho over the trench.

The Draft 2009 Transit Capital Budget lists no 2009 funding request for this project but lists $183M in the 2010 forecast. This is the money which will be needed to finish the Bus Transitway portion of this project; No rail facilities will be in place once this money runs out. The rail conversion will come later, as far as I know.

So, from the $20M original cost estimated for a Station, it jumped to $185M for a new bi-level transfer Station, and now it looks as if it is up to $251.5M. Yes, that is over 1/4 BILLION dollars! (For reference, Terry Fox + the big P&R was $11M; and each mined station, 30 metres under ground, in the downtown is estimated at $70M.) Plus, there will be unspecified costs for rail conversion.

To be fair, that money covers the entire 1.6Km stretch from Norice to Baseline Road. However, the Norice to Baseline Transitway portion is considered as a "Shovel Ready" project and part of the $612M request which was submitted for partial funding by upper levels of governments. The price attached to that project was $30M. This would be the ramp from Norice, Trenching, the new structure at Tallwood, and presumably the SWM lines under the Transitway. I expect that the SWM pipes would need to wait for the section under the Baseline Station to be useful, and that there would simply be ramps up to the surface Baseline Station for now.

So the Station isn't really $251.5M, it is 'ONLY' $221.5M. Much better.

MRC has the contract to develop this 1.6Km section of the Transitway, including the new Baseline Station. Do you think there will be any public consultation or open house before it starts?

It looks like I'm the only one concerned about a 36% increase in the cost of an already overly expensive station.

:previous:

No, you aren't.

They could have done the LRT station at grade in that weird parky thing (more grass!) that they're going to have above the tunnel. They could even have gone all out on it and spent maybe $25M for a really really nice at-grade station and we'd still be way ahead - not to mention saving on station operating costs and saving time on all this up-and-down pedestrian travel.


And this after the VE Study for the West Transitway to 'save' on building a tunnel through Pinecrest Creek park by making the route longer and taking out an entire street of housing. It just boggles the mind. Elsewhere the EA is on for cutting a bus trench through the Hospital corridor and other design studies are on for cutting bus trenches through the Cumberland corridor. There's just too much craziness to absorb.

Maybe that's just it. There is so much happening that people are only concentrating on things that directly affect them.

I found the same thing at the DOTT meeting last night. The answer I got to several questions was "That was outside our area." This was for questions about conversion of the S-E Transitway and taking rail to Westboro. It became a mantra of "We tried to not preclude anything else."

Good Golly. We need someone who has a big picture vision that can co-ordinate things on a grand scale. Someone who knows what is happening globally. And has a sense of what is supposed to be happening.

I'm starting to find some of the reasons that the new Baseline Station is priced so high. It turns out that the trench is to handle both trains and buses in its final form, and it is to be 30 metres in width! This makes this project effectively a 30m long bridge which is 300 metres wide! That's 9,000 square metres of decking!

http://REade.fileave.com/BaselineSta...ch-Profile.jpg

In the above sketch, you can see the bus lane on the outside (blue). It is to be a full width lane (4m) plus a shoulder for disabled buses (3.5m). Inside that, there is 3 metres of rail lane (red) and then a 9 metre centre platform.

There will be no side exits. All access will be via stairs/escalators/elevators from the above courtyard to the centre platform and those will only be used once the train is running. The Algonquin buildings on either side will be less than a metre away from this structure. (They will not share the walls.)

Underneath the trench will be the storm water management pipes.

The bus ramps from the Southwest Transitway to the new bus station at College are to be double wide to provide the required 12 bus lay-up spaces. Similar to the ramps at Westboro and Tunneys, buses the ramps from College should allow buses to go and come from either direction of the Transitway. Except, in htis case, there will be ramps on both sides of the Transitway, providing a loop without the need for an additional bridge.

Apparently, because Algonquin will be building in the area, they have agreed that they will build the trench and cover it, along with the Navaho and College bridges - but the City will still pay. They will actually be building the Navaho extension first since there has been a change in their building's design. Their services access area has been moved from College Ave. to Navaho. This allows the College area to be more pedestrian friendly, without service vehicles cutting through. This will be the main pedestrian route to the station. Although, once Algonquin has built all of their buildings, most of the pedestrians should be on the overhead bridges.

:previous:

It just keeps ballooning out of control. Shoulders? Why? If a bus is disabled in the bus lane other buses can, well, use the rail lane to pass it when there's no train present. That would knock off 7 of 30 metres.

We need a suitable epithet for this thing. I called it a "grass-covered buried concrete monument" the other day but that's too verbose.



Anyway the story of this begins back in 2006 for the plan for Centrepointe culminating in a plan released in the fall of 2007 with a scheme for an at-grade station (albeit BRT):
http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa...s/image006.jpg
http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa...(Complete).htm

If you read the above document there is lots of references to an open at-grade station (back in 2006, so still all-BRT) being better from a security point of view as well as cost.

Anyway, as you can see, there would be room in the parking lot to the south for a bus station if the main portion between the buildings was converted to LRT and I'm sure there are other arrangements that would work as well*. At any rate, such a notion (at-grade) is what made it into the background documents in April 2008 based on the then estimate of $20M.

What happened next I don't know precisely (Richard might know better?) but by mid June there was a short timeline notice RFP for the functional design of the station, with the contract to start in July 2008 and be completed by October 2008 (who knew the City of Ottawa could move so fast!? An RFP readied in ~2 months, contract let, and design ready three months later!). The terms of reference for the design study called for a grade-separated facility with rail below and, from what I can tell, local buses above in the long term with an interim set-up of Transitway buses below and local above.

I guess sometime during the design study the idea of buses anywhere at grade within the immediate vicinity of the pedestrian walkway and Building Sciences Building got nixed, which is how we got to the diagram that Richard provided earlier:

http://reade.fileave.com/BaselineSta...Transition.jpg


There was inevitably going to be some changes from the original due to the simple fact that the original was based on the assumption in 2006 that BRT would be there forever without LRT on the Transitway, but the terms of reference for the design study did not need to specify that LRT would be below grade and the buses above grade - and even that got changed in the end to push transit out of the way below grade (LRT) or south (buses). My guess is that Algonquin College didn't want an at-grade transfer facility on their doorstep and the grade-separation-obsessed Transitway designers were only too happy to oblige with a project that is ballooning out of control.


*My own idea would be for an island platform, with stairs, escalators and elevators coming down from the pedestrian overpass. To the east would be two sets of rail tracks and to the west a pair of northbound-only bus lanes (one for stopping, one for passing). This would allow cross-platform transfers, which is the most efficient form of transferring there is. Buses would head north past the end of the platform and cross over the tracks to leave the station (mainly to the south along Woodroffe). The platform would be long enough to hold two trains and the easternmost of the two tracks would allow one train (likely incoming) to pass one already at the station and go through a switch to come in behind (south) of the other train. Once LRT is extended further south the station could be reconfigured a bit (mainly to get rail on both sides of the island). The best part is that the current island platform would only need to have been shifted westwards by a dozen metres (enlarge it to the west, then contract it on the east, replacing the red pipes while they're at it) and we wouldn't need any temporary or temporary temporary stations.

I stand corrected - The announced estimated cost of the new Baseline Station is only $207M. So a mere 12% over the $185M estimate, or 935% over the $20M estimate.

Does anyone have a good feel as to how the local bus routes will be changed? Currently, the 86, 57, 111, 116, 117, 157, 178, and 178 come from the south, along Woodroffe, so they might be fine, but what of the 118, 873, 55, 156, and 174 which come from the north, along Woodroffe or on Navaho? Without access from Navaho to the new tunnel, they will all have to use Woodroffe. That stretch of Woodroffe between the college buildings will get even more congested.

Algonquin College prepares to build new construction-related training facility
KORKY KOROLUK
correspondent
OTTAWA
With the final bit of funding in place, everything is go for a new building to house training programs for construction trades and building sciences at Algonquin College.
The last $35 million in the funding package has been received from the federal government. That means that work can proceed this autumn on the $104-million project.
When it opens in September, 2011, it will, for the first time, house all of the college’s construction-related programs under one roof.
Slightly more than 1,700 full-time students are enrolled in the programs at present. The new building will have a capacity of about 2,500 students. It will also accommodate programs catering to evening and part-time students.
The building will be 142,000 square feet, and will be a showcase and teaching laboratory for best practices in sustainable construction. It will also mean that all of the college’s construction-related programs will be operate as part of a single faculty for the first time — the faculty of technology and trades.
Claude Brulé is executive dean of the faculty, and he said in a recent interview that at least four new programs will be available when the new building opens. One of them will be a new degree program.
At the moment, the college offers a bachelor’s degree in interior design. But Brulé said a new program will offer a bachelor’s degree in applied technology in building science.
Other programs that are being proposed are construction project management, professional kitchen and bath design, and residential and commercial estimating.
If all of them go ahead, it will bring the school’s offering up to 23 construction-related programs. Included among them are apprenticeship programs in cabinet making, carpentry, construction and maintenance electrician, plumbing, refrigeration and air conditioning systems mechanic, residential and ICI air conditioning mechanic (common core), and sheet metal work.
The local construction industry has been active in raising funds for the new buildings, and consults closely with the college to ensure that the programs offered are the programs needed.
The need is clear.
At a brief ceremony at which the federal cheque was presented, college president Robert Gillett said that when “Ontario and the country emerge from this recession, we know there will be a shortage of skilled tradespeople.”
“We know that more than half of Ontario’s skilled trades workers will likely retire in the next 15 years. It is imperative for projects like this to be supported, and we’re grateful to the federal government and our other partners for helping to train the net generation of tradespeople.”
He said that the federal funding represents “a welcome example of how governments and the private sector can work together to build a stronger future.”
“This funding would not have been . . . possible without the previous funding by the province of Ontario, the strong partnership between Algonquin and the city of Ottawa, and the passionate support of the construction industry and its workers in eastern Ontario”
Two-thirds of the project’s $104-million cost is meant to fund the construction trades centre. The rest is to fund further campus expansion.
But before work on the new building can start, a project due to start next month, will shift the Baseline Transitway station to the west to make room for the new building on the western part of the campus.

I see the City is now advertising in the paper that the Baseline Station is to be moved 40m west. There is no reference to an Open House or Presentation. I know there is a Web Page http://ottawa.ca/residents/major_pro.../index_en.html, but it is not even mentioned in the notice.

I guess I'll have to contact Elizabeth.Murphy@Ottawa.ca for information.

:previous:

That's because it's a 'Schedule A/A+' project under the Municipal Class EA. That means it's in a class of pre-approved projects and no public consultation is required, though A+ requires notification.

News Story
City issues tender call for $6.4M temporary Baseline station
By Peter Kovessy, Ottawa Business Journal Staff
Wed, Apr 29, 2009 3:00 PM EST

Algonquin prequalifies three firms for new college building

Algonquin College has selected three construction firms to bid on its new $50-million construction and trades building, just as the city has distributed tenders for the interim Baseline Transitway station.

The two projects are being closely co-ordinated because the new college building will be built on the site of the current transit station.

Algonquin selected EllisDon, PCL and Pomerleau to proceed to the request for proposals stage for its new building, said Mike Rushton, the college's physical resources director. He says the companies that responded to the college's request for qualifications were evaluated on their previous experience and the teams they would be assembling for the design and construction of the facility. Mr. Rushton declined to say how many companies responded to the RFQ.

Along with the facility itself, the successful proponent will build a pedestrian bridge joining the east and Centrepointe campuses, as well as transit infrastructure.

"It is important that those two facilities are built in such a way that they are integrated and they function successfully together," said Mr. Rushton.

He said he anticipates the RFP being issued to the shortlisted firms later this spring, with the final design-build proponent selected by the end of the summer or in early fall. Construction would start shortly thereafter, he said.

The city would like to have the Baseline Transitway station relocated prior to Algonquin starting its work, said Bruce Mason, the city's manager of design and construction services for west Ottawa.

Tender documents have been posted on the Ottawa Construction Association's website, with a closing date of May 7. Mr. Mason said the proposed start date of construction is May 19, right after the long weekend.

City council budgeted $6.35 million last November for the temporary station, which will have 200-metre side platforms for transit vehicles travelling in either direction, as opposed to the centre platform at the current Baseline station, which buses are forced to circle around.

The city had earlier hired McCormick Rankin Corp. for engineering design work, as well as a land preservation study, according to city documents.

The long-term vision is to build a new transit transfer station to the south that will connect the city's light-rail line to the bus rapid transit network.

---

WHO'S INVOLVED

Companies prequalified to bid on the Algonquin College Centre for Construction Trades and Building Sciences:

EllisDon Corp.
PCL
Pomerleau
Source: Algonquin College

Bidders for the Baseline Transitway station relocation (as of April 24)

Black & McDonald Ltd.
Dalcon Enterprises Inc.
Doran Contractors Ltd.
George W. Drummond Ltd.
Goldie Mohr Ltd.
Hanson Pipe & Products Canada Inc.
Karson Kartage & Konstruction Ltd.
Lafarge Paving & Construction Ltd.
M-Con Products Inc.
R.W. Tomlinson Ltd.
Robert Excavating
Torus Construction Ltd.
Source: Ottawa Construction Association

They've started clearing land for the new temporary Baseline station.

I took some photos but they don't really do it justice.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/7639/66623875.jpg

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6342/10380564.jpg

P.S. - first post! :cheers:

Thanks for the pics Admiral - especially on a first post!

I've been meaning to head over there myself and see what they're up to.

The first picture shows the path being blocked off... have they provided an alternate route for pathway users to get to wherever pathway users would have been able to get to before, or is this just another of those "who cares about pedestrians and cyclists?" jobs where they just shut things down with no alternative provided (I'm looking at you, NCC on LeBreton and you, MTO in the west Greenbelt)?

I'm the student engineer on site, so I can help you out on that one. We are providing temporary pathways while the existing ones are ripped out. It is only a compacted granular path (the rollerbladers don't like it), but at least an alternative is there.

Unfortunately, as it stands, when the temporary station is complete there will be no way to get from the walkway at the north end to the bike path that continues north without crossing new transitway streets. I'm pretty sure work is being done to come up with a solution but... I'm just the student!

Hope this helps.

PS First post!

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9166/63267959.jpg

This is to the north of the current station, between Woodroffe and the Transitway. I assume that what they're doing here is expanding the Navaho access point.

Although the Navaho Structure will be the first one replaced, I believe what you have captured above is the temporary connection of the storm water drain of the temporary station to the existing pipe under Woodroffe.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

I took this photo with my cell phone today. I am not exactly sure what they're doing though. Drains? :hmmm:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9063/moto0066.jpg

Progress as of today, July 25.

Here's the perspective from which I took my pictures.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1019/image021c.gif

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4148/img1330b.jpg

Note, the following photo is very large (panorama).

Those are actually concrete encased underground electrical conduits.

Ah, ok. That makes sense.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how the new station turns out. :banana:

What's the schedule like for the completion of the temporary station? The plan calls for sometime this month, but doesn't go into specifics.

Incidentally, does anyone know why the centre platform was ditched in favour of the two side platforms? You'd think the centre would be more convenient for passengers and be of benefit to the Quickies business that's sitting there.

^Probably because it takes up less space. And seeing as the new station is temporary until the underground one is built, the two side platform was a better solution.

^Will they revert back to the centre platform for the underground station, though? I have my doubts.

Anyway, here's a new panorama of the temporary station for your viewing pleasure.:awesome:

This is speculation, but it wouldn't surprise me if the temporary station will become part of the regular street network during the build-out of the rest of Centrepointe. If that's the case, then a side-loaded setup is more amenable to that. Another definite possibility is the fact that at Hurdman Station we are already seeing some congestion from the buses having to cross each others' paths all the time and they may have wanted to avoid that possibility at Baseline.

Not for the buses, they won't. But there will be a centre platform for light rail *in addition* to the side platforms for buses, which of course will only be used heavily for a few years until light rail arrives. I don't think they should be building a bus tunnel at all - they should just use the temporary station until light rail is available and for light rail a tunnel isn't even needed. We're building a massive bus tunnel at considerable expense for all of about 5-10 years of heavy bus use (depending on the relative timing of the bus tunnel and light rail to Baseline).

Thanks.