[St. John's] Convention Centre Expansion
 

I think it's time to proceed with a separate thread for this project in our brand new St. John's section (I'll still be saying that a year from now, by the way - I love it!).

The St. John's Convention Centre is currently expanding. Several clapboard buildings adjacent to the existing centre were demolished to allow its expansion west to the corner of Waldegrave and New Gower streets.


Here is a past render (which is no longer valid) from The Official Project Thread:


And another render:


And here is the most recent description posted in that thread by Architype:


And here is a recent image of the general site preparation:

http://ryancrocker.zenfolio.com/img/...55266772-5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0aUxdl.jpg

Taken from the provincial gov. new release posted September 2012
http://www.newfoundlandlabrador.com/...ewsArticle/154

Thank you, JCE! I realize it's only one post down but I quoted you for the first post as well. :)

I read there were interior and exterior elevations presented last week. Does anyone have any copies or photos of these?

January 19, 2013

http://i46.tinypic.com/287q1y9.jpg

Looks like you're also going to have some Steele Hotel updates in your photos as well. ;)

Article on VOCM today regarding the Convention Center:
http://vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&id=30185&latest=1

Notice the link jeddy ;)

So, It's not starting until next year and the whole convention center is going to be shut down for two years?? That sounds pretty bad for business.. You would think they could keep at least part of the existing convention center opened during the expansion.

Edit: It "goes to tender tomorrow"? Probably a really stupid question, but does that mean it gets officially proposed i.e: LUAR tomorrow??

I cannot see them closing the full convention centre maybe parts as they renovate.

When it goes to Tender it means that it will be published so that companies can put in bids on parts of it's construction (a competition for the best fit) for example the construction portion and the landscaping and electrical etc.

In other words they will announce what the companies can bid on and it starts the competition for companies to win the contracts

Ahhhh, I see. Thanks :)

Heard this on th news to clear things up a bit..

-Construction will be begin this march
-The convention center will close sometime in 2014 for about a year
-due to be completed on a Saturday in 2016

I guess this can be shared here too:

Source: http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?...30185&latest=1

Architype, read six posts above :haha:

LoL sorry, I usually spend a little more time reading.

haha, I've done the same thing many times :cheers:

One thing that I fear about this convention centre expansion is that they might be playing catch up and not looking at future demand .. how long will it take to outgrow this one? I mean they are citing cities like Fredericton and Charlottetown as competition .. I'd think that they would aim to compete with some bigger cities (keeping the future in mind) even if it wont be right away

:previous:

That's one of my biggest pet peeves about us. We always underestimate ourselves when planning for what the future St. John's and Newfoundland and Labrador will need. Always.

It's why we have hideous, piecemeal buildings like the Avalon Mall while cities that are more forward-looking in their planning have beautiful, single buildings.

I know. While the expansion is great, I find it sad that we, a city of 200,000, is playing catch-up with cities of 60,000. We should be building this with the future in mind. We should not build something that can rival those cities, we should build something bigger than those cities in hopes of competing with larger centers such as halifax.

The plans for the expansion sound great, I just feel it should have been much bigger.

That being said we HAVE come a very long way, attitudes are changing even if it's bit by bit.

Look at the airport they are going to DOUBLE the size.. I think that's going to be a good forward thinking project .. it's also difficult when you are using public money like for the convention centre, the public outcry all the time about anything being spent above the perceived "need".

However I hope they have an idea of how they will expand it more in the future (no more room) .. maybe they will be able to go up and add move floors? I dont know but give it ten years after it's complete and we'll be crying for a new one

I say enough catch up -> time to start shooting for the moon :)

edit:
This is why we need more young people with fresh ideas helping shape our city

Prime Example.....MileOne.....was good back when, but nowadays its getting too small for the area.

Hey do you guys think that it would be possible to expand Mile One? by like adding a second level of seating?

Maybe if they do a design fanning out as it rises .. keeping the footprint not as large as it is higher up the building??

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...78890472_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...27763575_n.jpg

There's a bit of space around it but there isnt much ... we could demolish city hall and use that land too ... build a new city hall in the west end DT :D JK


maybe in a creative design they could expand right to new gower street and have the bus area on top of the stadium from the street behind (an advantage of the elevations)

To create an upper bowl you would probably have to expand outwards as well as upwards. I don't think it'll be a problem on the front-end of the building, but the back-end is extremely close to the hill and could pose a problem. If the need is there I'm sure a viable solution could be found! :cheers:

I may be wrong but I seem to recall reading when Mile One was under construction, that it was designed in such a way to facilitate future expansion.

The need is there now. When you have (according to the Ice Caps) approximately 2500 on the wait list for season tickets and 95% of concerts (even 2nd and third shows) sell out very quickly then it is not rocket science to realize Mile One is too small for the area.

What do you guys think mile one centre capacity should be if expanded?

Hockey -------13500
Concert/events Depends on how the stage is set up.

and by convention centre I ment mile one centre

I'd say at least 10,000 for hockey games. It currently holds approximately 6500 and, like Chris mentioned, there seems to be a big enough demand for it.

I'd say at the very least 10,000 maybe up to 15.000

With the Airport upgrade and a larger stadium where an artist could do one show and get the amount of people they would for 2 and a half shows then be able to rely on getting in and out of the city.. I could see am increase in larger performances

news from cbc webiste
 

A little bit of news on the convention center front. Looks like they are about to award the primary contract. Hopefully council doesn't balk at the increased cost.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...ender-401.html

St. John's city council has been told that the cost of building a massive expansion to the city's convention centre will be significantly higher than previously thought.

In a memo to council for Monday evening's regular meeting, city engineer Walt Mills recommends that councillors accept the lowest bid for the job of expanding the St. John's Convention Centre, off New Gower Street.

Pomerleau Inc. had bid $52,695,420.52 for the work.

In August 2011, officials outlined a $45-million plan to expand the convention centre, with $15 million each coming from the city, the federal government and the Newfoundland and Labrador government.

The expansion will nearly double the amount of floor space available for trade shows, meetings and conventions.

City Council believes the expansion will allow it to compete for conventions considered too large for the current facility.

Three other companies — Bird Construction, Olympic Construction and Marco Services Ltd. — had higher bids on the project.

here's another article about it with renderings


Convention centre expansion to cost almost $10 M more than estimated

http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Loca...an-estimated/1

http://www.thetelegram.com/media/pho...316_resize.jpg

http://www.thetelegram.com/media/pho...317_resize.jpg

Based on the article they are increasing the convention capacity from a maximum of 600 guests to a maximum of 800. Seems like a lot of work and expense for a 25% capacity increase. It is good that they are expanding it but I think this is a waste of a huge opportunity. They should have increased the capacity to 1000 at the very least and looked at including a hotel on the site, as has been mentioned here before.

Wow - this design is tacky.

And more pedways? Fantastic.

But I think many commentators are right - the City is not aiming high enough with this expansion. Nevertheless, the design is pretty uninspiring. As is often the case, our City's contemporary architecture is poorly thought out and poorly designed.

--

There will not be any expansions to Mile One any time soon - the City subsidizes Mile One upwards of 1 Million per year (it used to be closer to 2-2.5 Million before the ice-caps resurfaced).

And do we really want a bigger stadium that accommodates 'concerts' with twice as many people? The ones that are already there are pretty lousy because the performer is so far away. Bigger doesn't always mean better. Perhaps an outdoor venue could be designed for larger performances...

Definitely more could have been done with the Convention Center. While its great to see the size increasing, and our potential to host conventions increasing, I feel like the potential just isn't being met. I don't hate the design too much, if all they want to put there is a one or two story space that can accommodate an extra 200 people. What I hate is that such a small increase in capacity is all they want to put there.

What also gets me is the cost is going to be around 60M. That seems pretty high for the added value of 200 people. I have to wonder what the incremental cost would have been for another 200-400 people.

As for the design. It really does nothing for me. I think they were trying to incorporate a "traditional" downtown St. John's feel with the colored portions but to me it looks like it wouldn't be out of place out on Stavanger Dr.

I think you're exactly right. The design looks, in fact, quite cheap (very Stavanger Drive-esque - particularly with reference to these pier-like elements protruding outward along New Gower). I also have a problem with these attempts of using different colours and 'rainbow' like colour schemes to try to give the design a local feel. We're seeing it more and more often. It's so literal and uncreative. It's just like 'hey, our town has houses that are different colours, so let's use different colours in our design!'... good grief - very superficial designing. Easy fail in Architecture school. There are also no windows and apertures in the entire New Gower façade (other than what appears to be a massive vent?).

*Shudders* this design looks so ghetto. Embarrassing. Civic buildings are supposed to be inspiring...

The same architectural devices are purportedly being used in the design of the Steele Hotel according to the following quote; this design technique needs to be used with more care and discretion rather than as a quick band-aid solution for otherwise banal architecture.

http://downtownstjohns.com/news/2256-2/

I'm continuing to assume that the white rectangles underneath all the black brick are windows, simply because I'm trying really hard to like the design.

I'm going to have to agree with the sentiment that the rendering is of an very uninspired building, not at all befitting a landscape as dramatic as St. John's or Newfoundland as a whole. The island and city have a very good reputation, and should be able to capture a huge convention centre business, but you need a signature, world-class building design to drive home the message and get signatures on the dotted line.

Uninspired is the perfect word.

I'm actually don't really mind the design. Certainly could be bigger but its not terrible in my mind.

The white pannels are definitely windows. There is an image on the city's website that shows an evening sketch where you can see the sunset reflecting off the glass.

Oh, good! That makes it an acceptable building. Still could be absolutely anywhere in suburban Florida (that's my yardstick for poor taste, BTW), but good to know it's not a cave.

I just still think so much more could have been done. St. John's, and Newfoundland in general, really is a unique city. It's unlike anything anywhere. Kwajo has the right idea. With our growing tourism industry, we really should have a flagship convention center that brings businesses here as well. Look at what Halifax is doing, then look at what St. John's is doing, and tell me which center you would rather have your convention at.

I don't think our center is competitive. I think that we will need another expansion in ten years time. I think that we should be planning ahead, not playing catchup.

The old people in charge here are still the ones who thought we had to join Canada or we'd starve to death. Their entire identity was formed in an era when we were told we couldn't be anything more than what the mainland's generosity could afford us.

It doesn't surprise me at all that they still follow, still underestimate. I'm guilty of it sometimes myself.

For them, second-rate mainland is a WONDERFUL step up for St. John's.

If you want to know what images the term "convention centre" turns up on Google (see link), you will realize why some, maybe most of us are heavily criticizing it.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&gs...NcKJiAKPuoHAAg

Also, the extension does not architecturally respond to or resemble the original building in any way. I really don't understand it, I think I actually prefer Atlantic Place to this building.

The Rooms could have been an interesting convention centre. :)

I hadn't even thought of that. If they leave the existing convention center as it is and just attach the new portion it will look terrible. On the other hand to make the original portion fit in with the new portion would have to involve removal of the existing façade. Maybe that is why they have to close the convention center for 2 years while the expansion is being constructed. Are there any renderings that show the completed product?

Thanks for the link Architype. I don't attend a lot of conferences these days, but there was a time in the 90's when I was attending a couple of large conferences a year throughout North America. I found most convention centres of that vintage to be functional but from a design point of view, bland and yes uninspired (New Orleans and pre-expansion Denver come to mind).

Modern convention centre design appears to be an opportunity to showcase a city, make a statement so to speak. And our convention centre (phases 1 and 2) has certainly missed the mark in that respect. Begs the question though... while we (rightly) complain, what sort of design would have best suited our city and that location? (arguably the best location for development in the city, centred between mile one, hotels, office towers, george street, the waterfront, etc) Something ultra modern and avant garde, something with lots of glass and sweeping lines like so many out there, or something more traditional? I initially scoffed at PoscStudent's suggestion of the Rooms (which may have been suggested merely to rankle SHH.. :) :) ), but something similarly themed (i.e. a modern expression of traditional Nfld architecture) would certainly have been uniquely St. John's.

There is a budget though. Those centres that are featured on google are some the most expensive centres in the world. I think we have to be realistic in what this city can actually obtain. Perhaps the design could be nicer but it certainly cannot be world class leading. I say that because in order to be such a building, you would need a VERY VERY large budget which is just not fesible for such a small city.

The vancouver convention centre which was first on that list cost almost $1 trillion

Ottawa convention centre $170 million

Winnipeg centre was $180 million (and not overly amazing!)

All i'm trying to say is that at $52 million, people are complaining and perhaps rightfully so. This is a public building whereby the expectations need to be tamed. We really cannot afford a $150 million + centre, hell its unlikely we could afford $75 million (which it will likely cost haha), so at what point do we match our wants and expectations with reality?