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-   -   Sports in Canadian culture (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=207531)

Ramako Oct 17, 2013 7:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Migs (Post 6306228)
The NBA was in Vancouver and MLB was in Montreal, both were collosal failures.
The problems with the Grizzlies were that they weren't getting a lot of corporate sponsorship because the team was perennially awful. The low exchange rate also hurt them badly. I'd guess that if you polled Vancouverites, they'd love for the Grizzlies to return.

Likewise a recent poll showed that the vast majority of Quebecers want to bring MLB back to Montreal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Migs (Post 6306228)
One can also argue that the NBA in Toronto is a collosal failure with their miniscule tv ratings.
I don't think so. The Raptors have had consistently solid attendance and are profitable, despite sucking horribly.

elly63 Oct 17, 2013 7:53 PM
VANCOUVER GRIZZLIES
Season GP Total Avg.
1995-96 41 704,489 17,183 Highest
1996-97 41 679,422 16,571
1997-98 41 660,457 16,109
1998-99 25 417,966 16,719
1999-00 41 569,864 13,899
2000-01 41 563,218 13,737 Lowest

MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES
Season GP Total Avg.
2001-02 41 591,030 14,415
2002-03 41 611,322 14,910
2003-04 41 622,723 15,188
2004-05 41 691,362 16,862 Highest
2005-06 41 647,533 15,793
2006-07 41 600,836 14,654
2007-08 41 523,758 12,770
2008-09 41 519,895 12,680 Lowest
2009-10 41 552,914 13,485
2010-11 41 600,687 14,650
2011-12 33 518,256 15,704

Nathan Oct 17, 2013 7:58 PM
Doesn't the MLSE force Leafs season ticket holders to also purchase Raptors tickets? In which case, it's tough to really know how well the Raptors are doing since there is always an artificial floor of support underneath.

Acajack Oct 17, 2013 8:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by osmo (Post 6305719)
It's perception is in its product. Your wrong in it viewing Canadian teams poorly.TFC was the "model" franchise for the leagues approach to expansion. The team sucks but they make a shit ton of money for MLSE for the nickels they put in. MLS packaged this approach to sell to perspective owners and many bought in. Nobody was crying about Canada being "filler" as they were all counting their cash.

.
That's Toronto. Not Ottawa or Calgary.

Acajack Oct 17, 2013 8:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by osmo (Post 6305719)
It's perception is in its product. Your wrong in it viewing Canadian teams poorly.TFC was the "model" franchise for the leagues approach to expansion. The team sucks but they make a shit ton of money for MLSE for the nickels they put in. MLS packaged this approach to sell to perspective owners and many bought in. Nobody was crying about Canada being "filler" as they were all counting their cash.

The MLS is delicate about "perception" in television only, this is why the presented product is polished and produced "in-house" jontly by the league and ESPN to give it a "look" like European soccer. This is to present a polished and professional looking product to hesitant legitimate soccer fans whom may view the league as a toy compared to the European powerhouses. Taking that into account though, any legitimate soccer fan knows that in Europe teams exist all over and the only club that matters is your own. You don't care whom your team is playing aside from a rival as long as the soccer is good and your team wins. A LA Galaxy fan could care less where Montreal is as long as his club wins. The league already has created Derbys for clubs to instill fake rivalries. The rest of the clubs don't matter to fans, soccer is always a provincial and local game.

The MLS just wants to make money and this is why in its older days is nuked charter franchises in premier markets like Miami. But only suspended San Jose... Why? Because San Jose is in probably one of the most affluent suburban areas in the USA, and the MLS whom largely has zoned in on suburban soccer demographics in the states didn't want to burn the market or that franchise so they offered it a lifeline that Miami did not get.

The MLS is open to Canada because it grows it's money pot regardless. Again, nobody is watching his stuff on TV in the states and the league does not have to justify dumping teams in crappy markets like the NHL does to justify a national TV deal. They already have one and IMO its more lucrative then what the NHL is getting if you consider the numbers they pull in are piss poor. The MLS goes where it thinks it can make money and get soccer specific faculties built.
There are a couple of things wrong with this analysis.

First of all, Canadian clubs grow the money pot initially only because of the franchise fee. After that, in what is for the moment a gate-driven league the American clubs are stuck with more home dates that are harder to sell tickets for. "Soccer fans" are not a national culture. American is. MLS fans in the States are still Americans and for the most part... well, we know how interested they are in Canada.

In a gate-driven league, every home date is important. In any sports league on this continent, Canadian teams (except the Habs and the Leafs) are generally duds at the gate in the States. MLS fans are no different.

And as far as TV is concerned, it's still the next critical step in the growth of any sports league. Do you really honestly think that the MLS people don't care if their TV ratings are still this low 10 years down the line? TV is where much of the money is in pro sports.

Canada's MLS clubs will be the three we have now. Mark my words.

Welkin Oct 17, 2013 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2 (Post 6305471)
I'm sorry, but what your saying is not reality at all. I am a Chelsea supporter and went and saw Chelsea play against Swansea at Stamford Bridge. No one there was thinking "Oh, we are playing against a smaller Welsh city - this sucks." No, quite the opposite. Swansea as a club has been performing really well and they have some great talent. It was great to see the teams play each other and Swansea won the game. The EPL is not just about who wins the Premiership. Football in the UK is more than who has the highest points. Its about winning the other tournaments as well. Reading your post, I am sure you don't know what it's really like here. I have lots of friends who are Man U supporters and they love to watch any match they can. Yes, playing bigger clubs is clearly the most desirable games to watch, but it's not the way you make it out to be. Whats amazing about the EPL is watching teams like Portsmouth go from a lower league to EPL and playing Europe and then back to lower divisions. There's a lot more drama and supporters are much more into their teams. You don't see a lot of "suits" at EPL matches, just real fans who will travel up and down the country to support their team. Best system in sports.
You Europeans do have amazing concepts about sports leagues. Your whole concept of relegation is totally foreign here. However, "The EPL is not about who wins the Premiership". Are you f#@king kidding me? Winning the title means everything here. Every year you win the Cup or you go home. No team here plays just for the fun of being on the field. I guess if winning is nothing, no wonder the EPL is full of little dink teams playing in Welsh backwaters like Swansea with no chance in hell of ever winning a league title. That would be like having an MLB team in Thunder Bay and expecting them to be competitive with the New York Yankees. Anyway, the tides are changing. Spend a few minutes Googling European Soccer Super League and you will find hundreds of articles talking about how to make the Super League a reality, not if it should be done.

Acajack Nov 6, 2013 3:56 PM
Good day for the CFL's (relative) credibility in the GTA - Rob Ford met the media wearing an NFL tie yesterday!

The_Architect Nov 6, 2013 4:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 6329018)
Good day for the CFL's (relative) credibility in the GTA - Rob Ford met the media wearing an NFL tie yesterday!
Him and his brother are outright Americans who happen to be in Canada. They're the definition of it.

Riise Nov 6, 2013 4:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welkin (Post 6306549)
You Europeans do have amazing concepts about sports leagues. Your whole concept of relegation is totally foreign here. However, "The EPL is not about who wins the Premiership". Are you f#@king kidding me? Winning the title means everything here. Every year you win the Cup or you go home. No team here plays just for the fun of being on the field. I guess if winning is nothing, no wonder the EPL is full of little dink teams playing in Welsh backwaters like Swansea with no chance in hell of ever winning a league title. That would be like having an MLB team in Thunder Bay and expecting them to be competitive with the New York Yankees.
I think it comes down to the question: would you rather have 30 clubs any of which can win the league in the next few years or nearly 100 clubs, at least on of which is local, that could play in the top flight in the near future? While a Leafs fan in Thunder Bay would thoroughly enjoy the Leafs winning the cup, having a team from Thunder Bay playing the NHL would also mean a lot.

Additionally, it doesn't have to be exclusive. Some people in Swansea adopt a bigger club like Arsenal or United as their second clubs similar to how people in Thunder Bay adopt the Leafs or any other team.

esquire Nov 6, 2013 5:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Architect (Post 6329094)
Him and his brother are outright Americans who happen to be in Canada. They're the definition of it.
When it comes to sports, Ford seems to love football, full stop. He appears to be a pretty big Argos fan... I mean, his summer vacation consisted of coming to Winnipeg to watch the Argos play, and then going to Regina for a Roughriders game.

Rob Ford, CFL fan:

http://i.imgur.com/y3JJzDV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VO063ZB.jpg

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_r...y=80&size=650x

freeweed Nov 6, 2013 6:25 PM
A big fat loudmouth white guy loving football? Say it ain't so!

freeweed Nov 6, 2013 6:28 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._in_French.png

Speaking of football - do the rest of the CFL teams have alternate names in French? Les Bombers Bleu?

What does "Alouette" really mean in English? Do English broadcasts discuss the Montreal Larks of the CFL?

Nathan Nov 6, 2013 6:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeweed (Post 6329254)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._in_French.png

Speaking of football - do the rest of the CFL teams have alternate names in French? Les Bombers Bleu?

What does "Alouette" really mean in English? Do English broadcasts discuss the Montreal Larks of the CFL?
The team names are proper nouns and therefore don't get translated from French (Alouettes) or English (Roughriders, Stampeders, Blue Bombers, etc). The Redblacks/Rouge et Noir have decided to use both languages and thus will have 2 official names that can be used, one for each language, like La Coupe Grey/Grey Cup and the CFL/LCF.

It would be similar to company names, which don't change either, unless decided by the company.

And you answered your own question about the meaning of Alouettes. And Larks is only used in short form/slang (although rarely as most say Als); like Riders, Green and White, Roughies, etc.

The_Architect Nov 6, 2013 6:50 PM
Les Argonautes sont meilleur que les Tigre-Shats.

Prometheus Nov 6, 2013 6:58 PM
2013 CFL Season Second Most Watched On Record
 
With a metro population of more than 1.2 million, it will be interesting see just how much the introduction of the Ottawa Redblacks will increase the ratings next year. The CFL is already the most-watched weekly sports broadcast in the country, with the exception of Hockey Night In Canada.

Quote:
CFL SEASON ON TSN WRAPS UP AS SECOND MOST-WATCHED ON RECORD

TSN.CA STAFF, 11/6/2013

Regular season ratings for the CFL ON TSN attracted an average audience of 703,000 viewers per game, making it the second most-watched season ever. Overall, audiences for the CFL regular season were up more than four per cent on TSN this season.

CFL audiences on TSN and RDS combined for an average of 758,000 viewers per game - an increase of 3.6 per cent compared to last year.

This season, three CFL games scored audiences surpassing one million viewers. The most-watched CFL games of the 2013 season include:

Saskatchewan @ Winnipeg on Sept. 8 - 1.073 million
Winnipeg @ Saskatchewan on Sept. 1 (Labour Day Weekend) - 1.059 million
Toronto @ Saskatchewan on Sept. 14 - 1.041 million
Toronto @ Hamilton on Oct. 14 (Thanksgiving Day Game) - 956,000
Saskatchewan @ Calgary on Aug. 9 - 929,000 million
B.C. @ Saskatchewan on Sept. 22 - 924,000 million

"The CFL is the cornerstone of our summer broadcast schedule delivering a dedicated audience of engaged Canadian football fans," said Stewart Johnston, President, TSN. "As the league continues to grow, we are thrilled that our long-term partnership continues to raise the profile of the league and ensures that the CFL remains as a must-see property for Canadian sports fans."

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=435976

freeweed Nov 6, 2013 7:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan (Post 6329288)
The team names are proper nouns and therefore don't get translated from French (Alouettes) or English (Roughriders, Stampeders, Blue Bombers, etc). The Redblacks/Rouge et Noir have decided to use both languages and thus will have 2 official names that can be used, one for each language, like La Coupe Grey/Grey Cup and the CFL/LCF.

It would be similar to company names, which don't change either, unless decided by the company.
Yeah, I was being tongue in cheek. "Proper Nouns" are just improper nouns that we appropriate into a name, making them "Proper". There's literally no difference between "Blue Bomber" and "Redblack" beyond the decade they were coined in.

The analogy to company names is apt. But companies don't often travel like a team does. Do they plan on calling them one name when playing at home, and the other name when playing in Montreal? Or do they call them both names at home, one name in Vancouver, and another in Montreal? And what happens if New Brunswick ever gets a CFL franchise?

The whole thing just seems awkward and I can't think of a similar precedent. Unless people still misspell "Canadiens" a lot. We certainly did as kids.

For the record, I've never in my life heard a single person use "Larks" as a nickname for the Als. I was being a little more than tongue in cheek with that one. :haha:

Actually, I never thought to pay close attention to this when visiting - is it PFK on one side of the river, KFC on the other? A strict divide in Ottawa-Gatineau?

Oh and lastly, I prefer the French name. "Red and Black" I could have gone with. "Redblack" just sounds stupid.

craneSpotter Nov 6, 2013 7:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Migs (Post 6306228)
One can also argue that the NBA in Toronto is a collosal failure with their miniscule tv ratings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan (Post 6306297)
In which case, it's tough to really know how well the Raptors are doing since there is always an artificial floor of support underneath.
Boys, take the blinders off ;) THE point of a professional sports franchise is to generate revenue and make the owners money, right? They aren't for fun or charity ;) So to put success in that context, I'll compare the Raptors to the CFL because you are from Sask an that is the 'pro' league represented there ;)

The CFL, as a league, generates 120-150 million a year in revenues. Profits for the teams vary greatly, but according to TSN in 2012 75% of the teams were in the 'black'. The Riders, one of the more 'successful' CFL teams, made a $1.1 million profit on revenues of $34.4 million for the 2012 season. That would put them in about 72nd place in the NCAA, with similar financials to the Southern Methodist Mustangs ;)

The Raptors on the other hand made a profit of $18.8 million on revenues of $121 million for their last season. In 2011 they had a $25.3 million profit on revenues of $138 million. In fact the Raptors have been very profitable in all but the 2006 season!

So little support? The Raptors, it could be argued, generate as much revenue and are more profitable than the entire CFL. It doesn't matter if 757k people watch the Riders play the Bombers on CBC and only 300k (in Canada) watch the Raptors play the Bobcats :) Each NBA viewer is much more 'valuable' to advertisers. For the record, the Raptors are currently ranked #7 in the NBA for attendance...

In fact it could also be argued that the Raptors are more 'successful', at least some years, than Canada's small market NHL teams (Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa & Winnipeg). Toronto is THE Canadian pro sports powerhouse - just look at the numbers for the Leafs & Jays as well - no CFL team could ever dream of making this list - but a Toronto NFL one probably would ;)

http://i39.tinypic.com/sb39xi.jpg

Click the link for a report by the Conference Board of Canada - on big league sports in Canada.

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/report...riefing-1.aspx

esquire Nov 6, 2013 8:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus (Post 6329304)
With a metro population of more than 1.2 million, it will be interesting see just how much the introduction of the Ottawa Redblacks will increase the ratings next year. The CFL is already the most-watched weekly sports broadcast in the country, with the exception of Hockey Night In Canada.
I love the fact that the most watched regular season game this season was one in which the Bombers recorded their only home win :)

esquire Nov 6, 2013 8:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 6329384)
Toronto is THE Canadian pro sports powerhouse - just look at the numbers for the Leafs & Jays as well - no CFL team could ever dream of making this list -
That's because it's a list of NHL, MLB and NBA team operating revenues.

Acajack Nov 6, 2013 8:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeweed (Post 6329374)
For the record, I've never in my life heard a single person use "Larks" as a nickname for the Als. I was being a little more than tongue in cheek with that one. :haha:
Larks is occasionally used as a nickname for the Alouettes by the anglo media in Montreal. It's extremely rare aside from that particular usage.


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