I do... ZERO and if I can find the article discussing it, I'll post it. More like 15k going to Buffalo but still a significant number.

I wonder how many of those Canadians are actually from Toronto vs. the Hamilton/Niagara region near Buffalo?

Even though I'm not a NFL fan right now, I can tell you that if I lived in St. Catharines (which is what, maybe 30 minutes away from the Bills' stadium?) I would probably be a season ticket holder, or at the very least attend a bunch of games.

There are a lot of Canadians for whom the Bills are effectively a local/home team.

I agree, was hearing something (surprising to me) not too long ago about the NY Rangers. They are iconic in New York and have a rabid fanbase but really aren't discussed much outside of their 20k arena fillers.

^ Stands to reason given that one of the teams playing in the Vanier Cup is from Quebec's second largest city and happens to be very popular.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that a Mount Allison-Calgary Vanier Cup would have attracted significantly fewer viewers in Quebec.

Yeah, after you lost it for several years...

Toronto's never lost a team, and just keeps adding more. Anyway, I have nothing against Winnipeg, just don't take kindly to someone putting down my city with stupid name-calling, that level of disrespect warrants a response.

Great Point, but it seems many (not everyone) but especially fans from Toronto think they need to put down the CFL as small time and to justify NFL is way better. To me football is football, you can like both, but just have a preference for one over the other

Absolutely. Go to New York and pick up the papers or look in the souvenir shops... the Rangers are definitely second-tier there when it comes to fan passion or attention. The NHL is to New York what the NBA or CFL are to Toronto.

You mean like Hicksville? Several big NFL markets lost their team as well.

Things are cyclical though. People forget how popular the Rangers were in the 70s and the Celtics were treated like the Argos up until the Bird era. Even with all their championship titles in the 60s and the Bruins being putrid, the Celtics were second class citizens in the Gahden when Orr was king.

Look man, I had family that came over investor class very recently from the States (they were too old to immigrate conventional class) and they were told point blank by the immigration consultant that they had to go to Saskatchewan or Manitoba because they were the only provinces with sufficient sized quotas to fill. The federal government gives several small provinces 6,000+ quotas via the nominee program while only giving Ontario 1,200. Efforts to increase the quota have been declined. There will be an election in 2015 and things likely will change with a new government.

Anyway, politics aside, 120,000 a year growth in population in the golden horseshoe alone is no joke, even if short term trends vary subtly in one direction, they can and most probably will change. Long term Ontario always has been a growth province and its share of the national population has consistently grown regardless of population growth in various other regions. Let's not forget that Saskatchewan boomed over several decades to 1 million, then declined over several decades to 700,000 then back again up to 1 million. Noone knows what the next 2 decades will bring in terms of growth rates, but the long term trend and track record is Ontario will continue to grow and dominate demographically regardless of a slowdown or growth in its population growth rate.

Those several big NFL markets were not the ones in question. It was someone from the one market in Canada that was in question who had the audacity to say that Toronto still hadn't gotten the team they wanted while their city did, not mentioning that they gained their franchise after losing it for several years while Toronto has never lost a team to begin with and stands a realistic chance of gaining this new team.

It doesn't help that Ontario is a have not province entitled to be a recipient of money for equalization purposes

Except, like a broken record, we've been hearing this since the 80s.

The point is that for all the blather we've been hearing (I remember that the NFL in Toronto was being sold as a done deal in the summer of 1995), how do we know that Toronto is actually any closer to getting a team than it was 20 years ago?

The fact you don't get it through your simpleton head that Ontario puts in way more into this federation economically and financially than it gets back in transfers or federal investments shows your ignorance...those transfers are money that Ontario put in.

...Physician heal thyself, methinks you doth protest too much.

Are you retarded? You must know nothing about the city if you think it's even remotely the same city it was in the 80's, it's an alpha city now with more population and economic clout. There have been several articles in this thread showing progress being made and if you've been following Olympic developments we've got a good shot at 2024 and Canada has a good shot at FIFA 2026, both of which would require a new 80,000+ stadium. Where do you think that will be based? Exactly. Where the largest TV, head office and advertising market in Canada is, you know, the region you hate so much that bankrolls every major league and national TV content in Canada?

What's with the name calling, can't you debate in a civil manner or are you threatened? Man, I get mod warnings for less than that.

Sorry but nobody "hates" T.O. Many of us just can't understand the inflated attitude. Not that I really want to get into it, it's like the GTA just doesn't get it. It thinks it's hip/cool/edgy but the ROC has moved on and grown up and T.O hasn't clued in that it's been left behind.

When people used to "Go down the road" they went to Montreal and in the 70's T.O, now they go out west to seek their fortune. And our latest census tells us that immigrants are doing the same.

I've never gotten a mod warning, simply because telling off obvious forum-trolls such as yourself is acceptable and quite frankly the statements made are quite preposterous. You have not been civilized in any of our debates and quite frankly rewriting/reorganizing my statements and presenting them as quotes (above) is a perfect example of your misinformation and shows your lack of respect for playing by the rules. Plenty of people have stated quite openly they hate Toronto, are we reading the same thread??

Anyway, debating with biased provincial trolls is getting tiresome, let's just agree to disagree. I'm out.

Always a good idea to retreat when you're losing and resort to name calling.

Maybe the next time we have an American thread you can contribute with some actual stadium info. See ya!