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-   -   Northeast False Creek | Proposed (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=164290)

jlousa Jan 29, 2009 4:55 AM

Northeast False Creek | Proposed
 
As most of you know the NEFC is getting close to wrapping up it's high level review, I've gotten around to getting the info boards ready to share with you guys. Personally I'm a big fan of this area and what's envisioned for it.

I'm sure some of you will be disappointed as there's no Ferris Wheel, you'll have to wait for one of the suburbs to show the COV how it's done. :cool:

Anyways take some time to let the photos load and comment away. People are watching. ;)

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metroXpress Jan 29, 2009 5:01 AM

Ah...there we go...it's back on again jlousa!!

I am really excited of this development and I am looking forward to reading
more of the updates and plans once they are available. Can't believe that
so much had changed during these few decades and I am sure the Vision 2011 will be a success!

I, personally, liked the idea of the buildings arranging from tall to low and all
the way to sea level...this is a very creative idea and from the renderings...all
looks great to me for now :)

Keep us posted with more updates!

NetMapel Jan 29, 2009 5:05 AM

Poor GM Place. Shadowed by future hi-rises :haha: Hope the majority of these buildings are for office purpose since BC Place and GM Place will be noissyyyy ! If we build residentials there, NIMBY might convince the city that BC Place and GM Place should be replaced by green parks.

jlousa Jan 29, 2009 5:09 AM

:previous:
*l* did you even read any of the documents or just look at the pretty pictures?

mr.x Jan 29, 2009 5:12 AM

It's alright imo, nothing too spectacular or surprising - basically what we know already. But it does look nice to have the whole area done, and good to know that the City will put in noise policies to future developments around the stadium rather than having the residents steam roll over them by having their way with events there.

However, I'm surprised to see the towers cover up so much of the view of the BC Place spikes from every vantage point and seeing the whole NEFC site east of the furthest east condos as even more parkland. It really does seem to be overkill, with the sports field north of the viaduct and the huge park north and south of Science World. I would much prefer more development there, with some plazas and smaller parks.

btw, thanks for posting these jlo!

Metro-One Jan 29, 2009 5:19 AM

:previous: I have to agree with mr.X2 with this one. The park space looks kind of dull and unimaginative. The stadiums and this development in general should use the dead space between the viaducts to build a parkade or two.

Stingray2004 Jan 29, 2009 5:26 AM

I'm actually surprised about the amount of waterfront green space between Science World and that node of towers adjacent to the Edgewater Casino (the former "green glass house" portion of the BC Pavillion at Expo '86).

LotusLand Jan 29, 2009 6:52 AM

Thanks for posting this :) I agree that it that BC places spikes will be hidden by all the towers. I think they should be visible from a few angles.

If the VAG decides not to move into the proposed site, perhaps Kerfoot would consider building the Whitecaps stadium there. Then we will have all the stadiums next to each other.

Also the park space proposed is a bit much.

fever Jan 29, 2009 7:07 AM

I saw this at the library, and left some comments there.

My main concern is that there isn't a well-defined link between robson and the art gallery. Maybe I'm missing it? I think the street pattern is a little too confusing, and doesn't fit as well as it could with either the downtown or chinatown grids.

From the pomo arch at the end of robson, you can never see more than 100 m in front of you, and the path doesn't continue in an obvious way. The curvature of the street and lack of visible outlet would ok in a mall or on a busy street. Because it likely won't be very busy and because there's no visible way out, people might think the path around the stadium is a dead end. It might feel too much like private space. Maybe the space around the stadium is an opportunity for mo's covered mall? Or maybe it just needs another way out?

raggedy13 Jan 29, 2009 8:27 AM

Thanks for posting all this, jlousa. Lots of info to go through there.

I'm quite happy that the City is pushing for this area to be predominantly commercial and entertainment oriented (though the potential 7,500 residents is a pretty big residential component). I’m glad to see that they intend for new residential in the area to be specifically designed with extra noise in mind and that they want to make sure residents are well aware of the noise levels.

While the potential for NIMBYism is always a concern, higher population densities seem like a must for this area and will add some nice pedestrian bustle to surrounding neighbourhoods and to downtown in general. I also found it interesting that they didn't think this area would attract many families. While I like that downtown is generally family-friendly, from an entertainment point of view I kind of like the idea of having this neighbourhood geared towards a different demographic.

I'm happy to see there should be a large civic plaza but like others have stated I don't see the need for so much park space. There is already lots around there and to me it looks like all this park space will act as a bit of a psychological barrier cutting downtown off from areas east. Like mr.x2 said, I would prefer more development with some plazas and smaller parks, perhaps something more akin to current SEFC development though perhaps denser and more entertainment/commercial oriented.

While the area under the viaducts could potentially be put to more creative uses, I generally like the idea of having recreational areas for such things as basketball, BMX, and roller hockey as it said. It seems this is extending the basic concept of the skatepark that is already in the area.

vanman Jan 29, 2009 8:38 AM

Quote:

and seeing the whole NEFC site east of the furthest east condos as even more parkland. It really does seem to be overkill, with the sports field north of the viaduct and the huge park north and south of Science World. I would much prefer more development there, with some plazas and smaller parks.
This is exactly what my only major issue with the NEFC plan is. They should instead include a series of smaller urban parks interspersed with mixed use development, instead of another dull pastoral lawn.

Hed Kandi Jan 29, 2009 10:44 AM

Thanks for the slides jlousa!

Currently the area is underutilized and has a lot of room for development, the future plans look promising and will definitely realize the potential for the site. In regards to "people watching", may I humbly request that all buildings be born out of international architectural design competitions and not simply handed as a contract to one of the paltry local firms? I can provide a list of numerous firms that I would give props to for designing any of these future structures. ;)

duener Jan 29, 2009 1:56 PM

Looks great that they're proposing so much commercial and public space.

I really think this is the last chance for Vancouver to create a fantastic public space downtown. I fear that the plaza will end up lifeless and dreary like most soviet/north american squares. I really hope they aim for Piazza San Marco rather than Nathan Phillips square.

It would be great if the surrounding buildings had narrow widths between them at a pedestrian level; that way you would burst out suddenly into a light filled animated square. There shouldn't be any auto traffic cutting the space off from surrounding structures either. To keep the space animated and lively there must be cafes/restaurants spillling out into it - without these railings blocking people off that you see everywhere like Yaletown.

Also a few underground (literally) clubs would be appropriate. That would give people somewhere to go once the restaurants are shut down. I imagine all it would take is an extra level of underground parking somewhere - like ones at Montparnasse in Paris.

Locked In Jan 29, 2009 3:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duener (Post 4055539)

I really think this is the last chance for Vancouver to create a fantastic public space downtown. I fear that the plaza will end up lifeless and dreary like most soviet/north american squares. I really hope they aim for Piazza San Marco rather than Nathan Phillips square.

It would be great if the surrounding buildings had narrow widths between them at a pedestrian level; that way you would burst out suddenly into a light filled animated square. There shouldn't be any auto traffic cutting the space off from surrounding structures either. To keep the space animated and lively there must be cafes/restaurants spillling out into it - without these railings blocking people off that you see everywhere like Yaletown.

I agree - the potential for a fantastic civic square here is huge, but whether the plaza succeeds as a public space all comes down to the little details. I think that allocating space for cafe and restaurant patios along on the edges is essential. I currently live a block from Dundas Square, and it just doesn't seem to work IMO. The sidewalks are bustling, but relatively few people seem to linger, because there isn't much to stop and see along the street walls. Also, unless there is something programmed there, the section in the middle feels vast and empty. I'd hate to see that replicated in NEFC. I don't think it's difficult to have roadways integrated into the plaza - Niewmarket and Leidsplein in Amsterdam are both good examples of bustling plazas that integrate traffic; in both, there's lots of room on the edges for cafes and bars.

As for the big picture, I'm really excited about an entertainment hub that stretches down to False creek - for a great water city, Vancouver is really lacking that. I think back to how impressed I was by Darling Harbour when I visited Sydney years ago - bars, restaurants etc. right along the water. It was exciting and vibrant and packed with people and I can only hope this comes close (I'll take our streetcar and pass on their monorail though).

One question: what's a reasonable timeline for seeing all of this built out? 10 years? 15 years? longer?

Thanks for posting jlousa.

Coldrsx Jan 29, 2009 3:45 PM

Can't wait to follow this one... and really hope they create that sqft of non-residential as it is so desperately needed downtown.

rather_draconian Jan 29, 2009 3:53 PM

Very cool...finally somewhere downtown that will not become a residential Concord Pacific mecca.

twoNeurons Jan 29, 2009 5:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locked In (Post 4055669)
(I'll take our streetcar and pass on their monorail though).

How about we do both monorail and streetcar and let people fight over which one they like best. The former would win.

Vancity Jan 29, 2009 5:45 PM

^Would we have enough space to build a monorail, assuming an idea like this is approved?

jlousa Jan 29, 2009 6:00 PM

The park extension people are complaining about is not flexible and is a requirement from the Concord developments. There is also an area under the viaducts that will be reserved for a maintaince facilty for the streetcars.

I agree that it would be nice to see Robson St become more of a gateway into the area, and there will be some improved pedestrian links although limited due to the new development sites. Georgia St will see huge improvements in connectivity to the area, the new pedestrian link isn't visible in the renderings. Smithe St will also see new improved connectivity as it will continue through. We should see movement on the streetcar line as well which will further improve connectivity
I think we can all agree that this will be a major improvement over the current situation. How successful it becomes will certainly depend more on what retail/commercial moves into the space then on the increase of residents. Timeframe is obvious market dependent and up to each developer but it would be a resonable assumption to say build out would be within a 10yr period.

There will not be a mono-rail.

LeftCoaster Jan 29, 2009 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tintinium (Post 4055918)
How about we do both monorail and streetcar and let people fight over which one they like best. The former would win.

Why do we want a monorail? Is this Odgenville? Is this 1980?

Streetcars look great, function great and are cost effective.

Monorails are none of the above.


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