if you tell 'em that from the Empire State Building you cant SEE the Empire State Building maybe they'll listen. It worked for me:haha:. I totally agree with you though

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I've actually mentioned that before! I think the GE building is better because it's right in the middle of midtown, and you can see more of the park + up the Hudson. If Penn Plaza had an observation deck at the very top, it would be higher than the ESB, so the views might be even better.

Anyhow, I'm not a huge fan of this design, but I don't dislike it.

this building is indistinguishable from pelli's sf transbay terminal tower and, imo, it would be a horrible tragedy to demolish such a beautiful building as the hotel pennsylvania. already lost the amazing drake, there are just another half dozen or so left. hope vornado loses this one and takes a smaller adjacent lot for this one.

seriously, it's identical to the sf project.

does it really matter what its identical to? there 2 differnet cities on 2 different sides of the countries, i hope they tear down the hotel and build this, penn plaza is beautiful building

LOL, if only the Hotel Penn were as "beautiful" as some people seem to think it is. The "similar design" argument is ridiculous.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I really like the look and style of the outside of the Hotel Penn. Inside the rooms aren't great and need a makeover. I, for one, would hate to see the hotel demolished.

That being said, I do like the look of this proposed tower and believe for sure it would be a welcome addition to the skyline. Idealistically I'd like it built on a different site so that Hotel Penn can be preserved.

I'm not against building taller than the ESB on that same East/West axis, but this design would look better shorter and perhaps less fat IMO. I'm aware that tenants want large trading floors, but I'm just talking aesthetics.

The way to fix the proportions is to make it taller, not shorter and thinner.

The ESB's management has always been jealous of skyline competition. In the late 60's they went to great lengths to oppose the Twin Towers' construction. The irony is that the ESB itself was a "blatant intrusion" into the skyline supremacy of other nearby tall gems such as Chrysler and the Metropolitan Life Tower.

Exactly, that's why I never understood the opposition against having a taller tower than ESB nearby. It's going to happen eventually there is no question about that...and it wont change the fact that Chrysler and ESB are both and will always be legendary structures regardless of the height.

I agree. Even with Hudson Yards, ESB will have plenty of breathing room. I still think Penn Plaza could use a slight haircut though.

Then it would be just another midtown highrise.

Not if it's 800+ feet.

So it should be about 260 meters when the midtown plateau is about 230? Yeah, that would really stand out... :sly: Supertall or bust for this project.

Agreed, any shorter and this building wouldn't do much

This would be a perfect opportunity to end that breathing room. 800+ will do nothing. 1000+ or 1200+ would be ideal.

I think that the Hudson Yards towers and the Brookfield towers will block the Empire State Building to such an extent that complaining about 15 Penn blocking the view of the ESB too will seem pretty pointless.

Don't know why it has to "do" THAT much. Just my personal taste.

i understand this thing needs an anchor tenant to get going, but what are the chances of this actually getting built at all anymore?

It'll get built eventually, as it's across the street from the busiest train station in NA, as of right, and the review process for this was kinda brutal so no way the developer abandons it, but it's at least a number of years away. It just needs to charge higher rents than the WTC, and probably anything in the Hudson Yards, including Related's Hudson Yard development, Extell's One Hudson Yards, Sherwood's building, etc.