Yeah they're using some existing buildings there but I think it's mainly new development.

I really doubt Long Wharf will be used for heavy industry or ever again. You'd sooner see another land swap and for the port to use the sugar shack site for any expansion.

This sounds accurate conceptually, but doesn't seem to bear out to reality as it's very rare to see industrial traffic tied up at Long Wharf.

...the giant tidal turbine pylon that's been hanging around there notwithstanding.

Plus, Long Wharf is big enough that a large portion of it could be redeveloped while still reserving a section for industrial port use.

Here are some facts.
The West side terminal is getting a refurbishment.
A lot of that terminal is falling into the harbour.
The port needs Long Wharf for over flow and take the pressure off of loosing the West side.
The Federal ownership of long wharf will not give up long wharf.

Another tidbit of information on Fundy Quay from the 2018 General Fund budget in tonight's council agenda (page 408). Not sure if this figure has been reported before, but the contingent projects line item for "Fundy Quay - Seawall and Environmental Remediation" comes to a grand total of $9.9 million.

As I understand it, this item is not actually getting funded (hence a contingent project), but would require Council approval at a later date if certain conditions are met.

Waterfront Development also has a report in tonight's agenda, but sadly no mention of the Coast Guard site at all.

From what I've heard, the development is going to be handed over to a new entity at the end of the year called Develop Saint John, which will combine functions of the City's Real Estate department, SJ Industrial Parks and Waterfront Development (minus the day-to-day administration of Market Square). Hopefully this new entity can adequately focus on moving the Coast Guard file forward, notwithstanding the challenges re: cost of the seawall repair and environmental contamination.

Also might as well share the Neighbourhood Plan's take on the Coast Guard site - the following sketches are from tomorrow's Growth Committee agenda and illustrate a more incremental approach to developing the site than the 'one big project' that's currently being pursued by Waterfront Development.

Phase 1 - complete the waterfront promenade and retrofit the existing buildings on the site:
https://i.imgur.com/3kuF9UY.png

Phase 2 - infill along Water Street:
https://i.imgur.com/8LSq0hR.png

Phase 3 - build out the remainder of the site:
https://i.imgur.com/Osb4Khq.png

Of course this is high-level conceptual stuff with few specifics on the actual building programs/height, but do you think this is a workable model?

I think it is workable, speaking as someone who for the last ten years has been against the single developer model for the site. I never saw the concept of going after a single large sale as the way to go when you are looking at a sizeable physical area, it is too much risk for a small market like Saint John. The problem is exacerbated on Long Wharf where you are talking about a parcel equal to over a half dozen city blocks.

By dividing off some of these projects into phases, developers can diversify their risk, but more importantly, the municipality can diversify investment and ownership, which is important for managing long term growth.

I like this plan better then Jumping in with both feet in this situation. Kwajo is correct in stating that the all at once model in a market like Saint John is a larger risk. If Saint John where indeed a larger market in this aspect It would be less risk going at this project all at once.

There is still a risk since we are not made aware of what is being built. But it seems it might be a mixed use area from the park that stays in place in all stages of this development plan.

I know there's been some discussion about the new Museum location in the main SJ thread, but I thought I'd put my comments here since it's now confirmed they'll be using part of the Coast Guard Site.

It's not clear from the announcement exactly what part of the site will be sold off, but I'm hoping they use the northern portion (along what was once South Market Wharf). This would buffer the rest of the site from the noise of the Boardwalk to lessen the impact of local nightlife on any residential development.

2 acres is a big chunk of land - of course it's going to be a large facility, but I hope that they come forward with a decidedly urban built form for the Museum. We should be prepared to push back against surface parking lots or large landscaped areas with little purpose in the site plan.

Finally, here's hoping that they bring in a good architect for this project and aspire to do an iconic design - I've mentioned before that this is our one opportunity to get a civic landmark approaching the impact of Halifax's Central Library, so hopefully we do it right.

I'm looking forward to hearing more details and participating in the consultation process.

There are also some questions about the intricacies of the site that have yet to be answered re: this announcement.
- What are the terms of sale (especially price)?
- How does the sale impact the need to repair the seawall and remediate environmental contamination on the site? Will there be cost-sharing between the City and the Province to do this?
- How does this impact the timing of public access around the perimeter of the site (i.e. Harbour Passage Extension)?
- I wonder if we'll get to see more info about the wider site's development (e.g. internal street network, development parcels) when plans for the Museum are released? We have yet to hear much from Develop Saint John, who are now in charge of marketing the site.

As usual, we can only speculate until more information is released to the public.

^ These are all great points, I would echo all of them as immediate points of emphasis for the city.

I can confirm that it is indeed the north side [more like the northwest corner I believe] of the wharf that will be sold to the Province, this was iterated to me in person at the annoucement today by a few people.

DevelopSJ has tweeted that two buildings on the Coast Guard Site will be demolished this summer to make way for the NBM project.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DecajAlWsAEjXsu.jpg
Source

I'll believe it when I see it - they don't even have the funding yet. So, demolish these buildings and cross your fingers...much like the Jelly Bean houses were demolished because there was big housing complex being built.....STILL WAITING!

The Jelly Bean houses were demolished because they had deteriorated to the point of being unsalvageable. The complex was proposed afterward, and is still on track.

http://huddle.today/acre-architects-...ean-buildings/

The new museum, however, has already received provincial funding.

http://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/ne...7.10.1396.html

https://globalnews.ca/news/3832627/n...in-saint-john/

Well that’s certainly what the huddle piece says. They”hope” to break ground by the end of the year...they’re still looking for funding partners. Maybe I’m jaded but we’ll see. As far as the museum, gallant has promised 50million and as I understand it, federal funding has not been approved. Wayne Long has said it would not be matching and would likely be a fraction of the 50......so, again, we’ll see. My guess would be that after the September election, poof, funding will be gone. The feds are so deep in debt I doubt we will see any meaningful amount.

You have to be patient with major projects such as these ones. The Jelly Bean house location didn't even have plans prepared, they pretty much asked the non-profit housing group to see if they wanted the Jelly Bean Houses, and they said they weren't able to salvage them. Plans don't appear overnight, there's always alot of developing and approval stages.

And same thing we the NB museum, they only got approved for funding less than a year ago. They had an extremely ambitious (unrealistic) construction start date.

Look at the Irving building, how long was that in planning stages before it finally became a reality?

The point is, be patient. I don't know if the projects will go ahead, (i.e. Coast guard building) but they do take time.

They're drilling test boreholes on the Museum's portion of the Coast Guard Site, according to DevelopSJ: https://twitter.com/DevelopSJ/status...24868700876800

Saw this earlier, it is both exciting and vexing, as the process continues to remain quite secretive up to this point.

I do hope the Feds at least come to the table to pay to raise the sea wall of the wharf prior to construction of the museum, as much of the site falls below Federal and Provincial sea-level rise projections. I would hate to see this new museum not last as long as the previous Douglas Avenue location.

Clearing of the site will begin in the next few weeks. The City has a post on their website asking for someone to come and get the "Little Red Schoolhouse" by August 3rd.

of course the usual suspects are having a conniption over what is, at its core, a rotting storage shed that is being used for storage of garbage and patio umbrellas.

The demolition contract for the Coast Guard shop building and the blue shed behind it has been finalized, to clear the way for the new NBM facility. The Coast Guard office building and helicopter shed will remain standing for now, but it's expected that they will eventually come down too in order to clear the site for future development.

According to the TJ, the Coast Guard's lease at the property expires on August 31st, after which they are moving to new digs in the McAllister Industrial Park.

I had a bit of spare time tonight, so I thought I'd sketch out one possible configuration of the Coast Guard Site development as I'd like to see it now that a chunk has been taken out of it for the Museum. It would require a slight shift of Peters Wharf to the south from its current position, in order to better balance the development parcel sizes. Green is open/pedestrianized space, orange is 4-6 storey buildings, pink is 6-8 storeys and purple is 8-12 (note that these are just example height configurations, feel free to draw your own!).

https://i.imgur.com/DOcCPpV.jpg

The light blue box with measurements is my best guess at the Museum property footprint based on the site plan from last night's info session (below).

https://i.imgur.com/dAdkY97.png

A big advantage of a configuration like the one above is that it would be quite easy to divide the development into bite-sized phases that our market can more easily absorb, and even opens up the possibility of sharing the project among a number of developers, instead of relying on a single mega-developer.

Anyway, I thought I'd share this to add a bit of colour to the page and maybe spur some discussion. How would you like to see the site configured/phased/built out?