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-   -   Canadian Office Space Market (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=192174)

Wooster Nov 29, 2011 4:53 AM

I suspect that City Centre in Calgary is highly, highly likely to break ground in 2012. Beyond that, I would guess Centennial 3 and EAP 2. Probably no gigantic towers this round, but particularly good for the Eau Claire district in its evolution.

TallBob Nov 29, 2011 4:55 AM

Definetely 2 or 3 850 - 950 footers for Calgary. The city digests such large chunks of office space, I don't know why some of these developers even screw around with these 30 - story proposals to begin with. Then it would be nice to see some high-rise residences in the 50 - 60 story range!

Policy Wonk Nov 29, 2011 9:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeweed (Post 5495723)

A friends company just made an unsolicited offer to sublease a cafeteria because it is the absolutely only plausible space in the proximity of their existing office.

freeweed Nov 29, 2011 3:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk (Post 5496883)
A friends company just made an unsolicited offer to sublease a cafeteria because it is the absolutely only plausible space in the proximity of their existing office.

But...but.. the article is only talking about class A space! How can we tell anything about the market with just that? :haha: I swear, if you're not here and working in the biz, you have no clue - the media is really not reporting this very well at all. Calgary's full, folks. Sorry, no more room.

I think a cafeteria is what, class F space?

Policy Wonk Nov 29, 2011 5:19 PM

It is an A building, presumably they aren't just going to have people sitting in the cafeteria as-is.

Coldrsx Nov 29, 2011 5:41 PM

Market for Edmonton office space to pick up in 2012: forecasts

Higher vacancy rate was expected because of new Epcor building

BY LEWIS KELLY, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COM NOVEMBER 28, 2011



STORYPHOTOS ( 1 )



The market for Edmonton office space is looking up in 2012, according to commercial real estate forecasts
Photograph by: John Lucas, edmontonjournal.com
EDMONTON — The market for office space in Edmonton will pick up steam next year, say forecasts released Monday by CBRE and Cushman & Wakefield. But though both firms predict an increase in leasing activity in 2012, they disagree about some specifics.

The Cushman & Wakefield report forecasts the office space vacancy rate for downtown Edmonton increasing from 7.2 per cent in Q3 2011 to 9.7 per cent in 2012. According to its report, CBRE foresees a decline from 10.3 per cent to 9.1 per cent over that period.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...123/story.html

WhipperSnapper Nov 30, 2011 1:25 AM

The bank I work for is hiring like crazy unfortunately they have actually found a way to reconfigure workspaces to about 10 square feet for the backroom operations like the massive tech department. The HVAC system is failing from being overloaded but they don't seem to care.

There's a will when there is uncertainty over the future. Too much speculation in commodities and real estate.

240glt Dec 2, 2011 2:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper (Post 5497988)
The bank I work for is hiring like crazy unfortunately they have actually found a way to reconfigure workspaces to about 10 square feet for the backroom operations like the massive tech department. The HVAC system is failing from being overloaded but they don't seem to care.

Granite and glass gets office space leased. Building systems are almost always a secondary consideration.

I am working on reconfiguring storage units into occupiable space in one of my office towers right now. We are strapped for room for existing tenants to expand.

caltrane74 Dec 2, 2011 2:28 AM

My company is also hiring app developers and client support like crazy. Fortunately for us, our office is in Mississauga and we have plenty of space to expand. We share our office building with a stupid car company from Germany.

ToxiK Dec 2, 2011 3:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74 (Post 5501220)
We share our office building with a stupid car company from Germany.

What have they done that is so stupid? :jester:

caltrane74 Dec 2, 2011 5:09 AM

They leave all their exotic supercars in the employee parking lot for starters.

240glt Dec 17, 2011 6:22 PM

Edmonton fills 558,000 square feet of office space in 2011

EDMONTON - Edmonton exhibited a voracious appetite for office space this year, according to Avison Young’s latest report.

“The Edmonton office space inventory absorbed more net area than the last five years combined,” reads the Q4 2011 report from the real estate firm. The report says Edmonton filled 558,000 square feet of office space in 2011, spurred by the expansion of firms like Epcor, Intact Insurance and Enbridge, along with the federal Department of Justice.

The total is the market’s highest since 2004. Annual absorption between 2005 and 2010 peaked at 300,000 sq. ft. The market disgorged 270,000 sq. ft. last year.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...765/story.html

Coldrsx Dec 17, 2011 7:51 PM

Not bad for little old Edmonton...

taal Dec 18, 2011 3:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74 (Post 5501220)
My company is also hiring app developers and client support like crazy. Fortunately for us, our office is in Mississauga and we have plenty of space to expand. We share our office building with a stupid car company from Germany.


Do you think this is the problem with Toronto, and always will be ?
Let me be more specific :)

No other cities have the equivalent of Mississauga in terms of office space do they ? I think Mississauga, or the GTA west in general has about 30 million square feet or so ? More then Edmonton I believe ?

Let's just go on population, Toronto is 3 million or so and the GTA has probably another 3 million in it or so ? Is that the common trend i.e. Calgary is about 1 million and the suburbs another million ? In about the same area.

But in terms of jobs, does anything come close to the GTA west in terms of the shear amount of office space ? Leave Canada, how does it compare to America, where the CMAs are much larger then this proportion, but again, what about office space ?

As the GTA west (and increasingly the east in Markham / Richmond Hill) continue to expand it'll always put a huge burden on Toronto proper (lets ignore the outer 416, completely different issue) but the core in particular ...
Maybe could downtown Toronto be about 1.5 X as large if it was in a similar situation to say Calgary or Edmonton or Montreal ?

The typical trend I see is: Most large Canadian companies stay in the core, most media companies (of any size) start in the core, most small to medium tech companies are in the core. But tech in this case is usually media related e.g. iphone development and the like. But as they grow some tend to move to the suburbs. Lots of government / institutional and health related are also in the core.

Sounds like a lot but what's not are large American companies (of all types !), particularly their Canadian headquarters (which are large), the majority of these are in the 905 and this is very very significant.

Maybe other parts of Canada don't have this i.e. they're all located in the GTA. So maybe the way to look at this is other Canadian cities don't host the headquarters of American companies so they wouldn't be located in their core or otherwise. Imagine some of these were downtown, they could fill up large office towers ! They take up a ton of space in Missiaga (in 5-10 story offices).

We probably compare very favorably in this regard with Vancouver, but that's hardly fair due to limited land i.e. Vancouver suburbs indeed have a lot of office space.

TallBob Dec 18, 2011 5:18 AM

Good news about Edmonton. That's a pretty good absorption rate. Calgary's gonna have a little competition!

WhipperSnapper Dec 18, 2011 4:37 PM

tile
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by taal (Post 5520686)
Do you think this is the problem with Toronto, and always will be ?
Let me be more specific :)

There is little competition between Mississauga office parks and Toronto's downtown area. The start-ups/fly-by-nights and various operations of larger companies were costed out of the CBD long time ago. Our former boroughs suffer the same fate as Mississauga Centre; can't compete with the low cost of land.

Doug Dec 18, 2011 5:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taal (Post 5520686)
Calgary is about 1 million and the suburbs another million ?

Calgary city proper is about 1.1M. Burbs add slightly over 100K. More relevant, the burbs are virtually 100% residential. They have some retail and warehousing, but virtually no office space.

Rusty van Reddick Dec 18, 2011 7:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taal (Post 5520686)
Calgary is about 1 million and the suburbs another million ?

You're so far off it's ridiculous- you couldn't have looked this up?

Calgary has almost zero "suburbs." Unlike Toronto or Vancouver or the vast, vast, vast majority of US cities, more than 90% of the Calgary CMA comprises persons resident in the municipality of Calgary. About 1.1 million in the city and barely 100k in the other municipalities that make up our CMA. The only sizeable one- and that's stretching the idea- is Airdrie at about 44,000 and it doesn't have office parks. Airdrie and the other suburbs (Cochrane, Chestermere, Rocky View MD) are absolutely growing but Calgary is still effectively a unicity.

taal Dec 18, 2011 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper (Post 5520960)
There is little competition between Mississauga office parks and Toronto's downtown area. The start-ups/fly-by-nights and various operations of larger companies were costed out of the CBD long time ago. Our former boroughs suffer the same fate as Mississauga Centre; can't compete with the low cost of land.

This is a common trend in other US cities as well though i.e. to have many companies locate elsewhere due to cheaper land ?

taal Dec 18, 2011 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick (Post 5521068)
You're so far off it's ridiculous- you couldn't have looked this up?

Calgary has almost zero "suburbs." Unlike Toronto or Vancouver or the vast, vast, vast majority of US cities, more than 90% of the Calgary CMA comprises persons resident in the municipality of Calgary. About 1.1 million in the city and barely 100k in the other municipalities that make up our CMA. The only sizeable one- and that's stretching the idea- is Airdrie at about 44,000 and it doesn't have office parks. Airdrie and the other suburbs (Cochrane, Chestermere, Rocky View MD) are absolutely growing but Calgary is still effectively a unicity.

Sorry about that your right, I forgot Calgary was in a rather unique situation.
I'll take it a step further, correct me if I'm wrong though, not only does Calgary make up the majority of the region (population), most office space in Calgary (and hence the region) is located downtown ?

That's a great setup, very centralized, maybe it won't work when Calgary grows more but seems like a good model in my books.


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