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-   -   Winnipeg | True North Square | 86.9M 285Ft | 77.8M 255Ft | 25F | 17F | ?F | ?F | U/C (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=217327)

Cyro Jun 3, 2015 4:10 PM

Winnipeg | True North Square | 86.9M 285Ft | 77.8M 255Ft | 25F | 17F | ?F | ?F | U/C
 
Proposed $400 Million mixed-use development project located in Downtown Winnipeg's (SHED) District consisting of 4 mid-size towers centered around a public square.


Hotel, Office and Residential towers will be joined by a public walkway system connecting the MTS centre to the North and the RBC convention centre to the south. Retail components to the proposal are also being contemplated in the development

Developer: True North Sports and Entertainment.

CBC http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...ment-1.3460488

Tower 1 - Scotiabank Tower

Phase 1 scheduled for completion in Summer 2018.
242 Hargrave Street; a signature 17-storey, 365,000 sq ft Class A office tower with a summer 2018 occupancy

TDS and Scotiabank as tenants.

Tower 2

24 storey residential tower, with retail and office at podium level.

Tower 3

27 storey, 275 room Sutton Place hotel

Tower 4

17 storey condo tower, 130 units


Feb.24.2016 Current exterior views of the proposal..

http://www.truenorthsquare.com/wp-co...ns_view_01.jpg

TNS North View
http://www.truenorthsquare.com/wp-co...North-View.jpg

TNS South View
http://www.truenorthsquare.com/wp-co...South-View.jpg

TNS Square
http://www.truenorthsquare.com/wp-co...ers/Square.jpg

Sutton Place Hotel
http://www.truenorthsquare.com/wp-co...lace-hotel.jpg

Hargrave St Entrance
http://www.truenorthsquare.com/wp-co...s/Hargrave.jpg

Image Source: http://www.truenorthsquare.com/development/gallery/


Renders - Site Layout : Feb.24th.2016

http://i.cbc.ca/1.3462179.1456336825...bank-tower.jpg
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...ment-1.3460488
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e0&oe=57588630
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...1c&oe=5753881E
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...16&oe=5727FD37
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...7f&oe=5770379C
Image Sources: https://www.facebook.com/truenorthsquare/?fref=photo

Current Sources:
http://www.truenorthsquare.com/
http://www.winnipegsun.com/2016/02/2...quare-revealed
https://www.facebook.com/truenorthsquare/?fref=photo
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...ment-1.3460488

Cyro Jun 3, 2015 4:18 PM

Links regarding proposal:


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...uare-1.3095679


https://twitter.com/aldosantin/statu...45787057680384

CoryB Jun 3, 2015 4:35 PM

This is unconfirmed however, rooftop pool on the northwest building near the powerhouse = hotel. Tower between powerhouse and the church is likely the office tower. The 220 Carlton site, as previously discussed, is some form of residential.

Also the rendering shows the church surface lot becoming a park and some change to the site access for their garage coming from the east instead of the current west configuration. Not sure if the church is formally part of these plans.

roccerfeller Jun 3, 2015 5:14 PM

Just to clarify, is this development the same as "so po square" ?

iow, is this what so po became?

Tacheguy Jun 3, 2015 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roccerfeller (Post 7049336)
Just to clarify, is this development the same as "so po square" ?

iow, is this what so po became?

I believe so.

esquire Jun 3, 2015 6:08 PM

"So Po Square"...what a terrible name... let us never hear it uttered again.

CoryB Jun 3, 2015 8:09 PM

"Value engineering" is also going to have fun with all those rooftop trees.

drew Jun 3, 2015 9:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoryB (Post 7049560)
"Value engineering" is also going to have fun with all those rooftop trees.

...curved walls, tilted walls, glass walls, height of buildings...

BigG Jun 4, 2015 1:05 PM

Well, those designs don't look as complicated as the CMHR's designs. IMHO, it's doable. But, like most renderings, the final product will most likely look different.

1ajs Jun 4, 2015 11:16 PM

hoepfuly the green building stuff doesnt get axed would be nice to have another one kidy corner to hydro

longfeather Jun 5, 2015 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoryB (Post 7049249)

Also the rendering shows the church surface lot becoming a park and some change to the site access for their garage coming from the east instead of the current west configuration. Not sure if the church is formally part of these plans.

As it stands St.Marys is not interested in what True north is offering.. And they offered an obscene amount of money so that is unlikely to change

trueviking Jun 5, 2015 1:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigG (Post 7050209)
Well, those designs don't look as complicated as the CMHR's designs. IMHO, it's doable. But, like most renderings, the final product will most likely look different.

The CMHR was built at a cost of $3000 per square foot. These buildings will be closer to $200 per square foot. That's 15 times cheaper!

The renderings are completely ridiculous. A full glass hotel? Not only is that not possible in the building code, it could never work economically. Their hotel across the street is a 20 storey stucco box for goodness sake.

The SOPO renderings were much more realistic. And far nicer in my opinion.

trueviking Jun 5, 2015 1:59 AM

That's funny. Look closely at the boards. They are proposing a sewer heat recovery system. Sucking the heat out of the sewer's shit.

I worked on a project briefly with these architects and they proposed the same thing. The city had none of it. Pretty funny.

Simplicity Jun 5, 2015 2:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking (Post 7051185)
The CMHR was built at a cost of $3000 per square foot. These buildings will be closer to $200 per square foot. That's 15 times cheaper!

The renderings are completely ridiculous. A full glass hotel? Not only is that not possible in the building code, it could never work economically. Their hotel across the street is a 20 storey stucco box for goodness sake.

The SOPO renderings were much more realistic. And far nicer in my opinion.

$200!? Hells nah... $300+ w/out leaseholds.

Somebody mentioned the Trizec in another post. I hope it was done ironically 'cause this - if it ever gets built - is going to resemble a very similar transaction.

But thank god the definitively worst hotel market in the country is going to be getting a publicly subsidized hotel. You want to keep that playing field level for the existing privately held hotels in the area that are having difficulty staying occupied...

esquire Jun 5, 2015 2:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longfeather (Post 7051092)
As it stands St.Marys is not interested in what True north is offering.. And they offered an obscene amount of money so that is unlikely to change

So that sliver of land between the Carlton Ave. tower and the Cathedral is now Longboat/TNSE's? I always thought that the Cathedral owned that since they're the ones who appear to be using it.

trueviking Jun 5, 2015 3:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplicity (Post 7051225)
$200!? Hells nah... $300+ w/out leaseholds.

Yeah. Maybe the lotteries building.
I doubt the hotel could be sustainable at 300+ though.

Simplicity Jun 5, 2015 2:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking (Post 7051258)
Yeah. Maybe the lotteries building.
I doubt the hotel could be sustainable at 300+ though.

I think that's the point, right? It's not. So we can infer three things immediately:

1) Construction costs, for the most part, are what the are. In other words, there are only so many discounts to be had given labour doesn't discount and worldwide commodities markets don't either. So nobody is getting what they aren't paying for.

2) Given Point 1 and your true to fact point that it's unsustainable at 300+/sq ft, these drawings are a figment of an architects imagination and little more.

BUT

3) Keeping even the basic elements of the renderings, this is still easily a $300-$325/sq ft build inclusive of soft costs. That means somebody is going to have to close the value gap between the price at which this building is sustainable and the price at which it costs to get built. I don't think it requires that much guesswork as to who that party is going to be.

It'll be interesting to see how the city manages this one, anyway. 220 Carlton is supposed to have a caveat against it that requires its taxation to pay for a portion of the Convention Center. If that's true, there's no ability to TIF that property unless the city pretends there's enough value to advance funding on taxation revenues over and above what was originally anticipated when the Convention Center deal was done and that they know damn well will never exist. Don't put this past them. The SHED TIF is still largely provincially funded. That's important given that CentreVenture couldn't possibly be more broke.

buzzg Jun 5, 2015 5:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplicity (Post 7051225)
$200!? Hells nah... $300+ w/out leaseholds.

Somebody mentioned the Trizec in another post. I hope it was done ironically 'cause this - if it ever gets built - is going to resemble a very similar transaction.

But thank god the definitively worst hotel market in the country is going to be getting a publicly subsidized hotel. You want to keep that playing field level for the existing privately held hotels in the area that are having difficulty staying occupied...

To be fair — the Centrepoint parkade does/will look EXACTLY like the renderings, which is rare. Hahaha

Keh Vaughn Jun 5, 2015 6:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzg (Post 7051975)
To be fair — the Centrepoint parkade does/will look EXACTLY like the renderings, which is rare. Hahaha

Lest we forget:

http://centrepointwinnipeg.com/wp-co...parkade_02.jpg

buzzg Jun 5, 2015 6:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keh Vaughn (Post 7051997)

Well from the final design at least


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