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-   -   2019 CFL Season (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=237190)

elly63 Oct 29, 2019 6:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeLocker (Post 8732347)
With the CPL up and running CFL expansion makes no sense.

This post makes no sense.

We have two pieces at play. One an ownership group that has been vetted and the more research I have been doing, I think, the more capital they have, and yet, they have stayed in this for whatever reason trying to get a fantastic deal out of (2) one of the most timid and backward looking city councils in recent existence.

It is sad that this deal in it's present form will not likely get done because both sides are ridiculously obstinate.

elly63 Oct 29, 2019 7:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy (Post 8732212)
However, Concordia University economics professor Moshe Lander says that Schooner Sports and Entertainment, the company behind the pitch, is missing out on opportunities to start a fan base in Halifax

Why is this the only guy people talk to, when in the past he has said some of the most ridiculous, CFL ignorant pronouncements. One I can recall off hand is he said Halifax need a 25k to 30k stadium. Some of the stuff about marketing he said was untrue but I'd really like to know what gift was handed to them.

I think I've accepted, unless there are some major changes to each side, that these two idiots for sides in this venture have blown it but go back and read some of the statements this dork (Lander) has made and you'll wonder why reporters keep quoting him, pure unadulterated laziness.

TimB09 Oct 29, 2019 7:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8732413)
You make it sound like Halifax could only support one or the other but that is clearly not the case. A metro of 400,000+ can easily support both.

Obviously CPL has an advantage in that it requires much less of a venue which is why they're up and running in Halifax.

The longer this saga with Leblanc drags on, the more it looks like Ambrosie has poisoned the well for maritime expansion for another generation. Oh well. What's Quebec City up to these days?

Loving their Laval football team.

People have said that they don't think Quebec City would support a CFL team for the reason I stated above.

ScreamingViking Oct 29, 2019 7:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 8732092)
As well the many times this year the sale to them has been told as imminent in june, sept, oct and still has not happened I get the feeling these guys are not sure what they are getting into. As I have stated many times on here I hope I am wrong about them as I want to see full stadiums across the CFL with every team doing well but at the same time the signs I get from these constant delays do give cause for concern. Being a CFL fan we all know all too well the some of the crazy clown owners this league has seen over the years with Nelson Skalbania, Murray Pezim, Bruce Mcnall, Larry Rickman, Sherwood Schwartz, The Glibermans ect… we hope those days are behind us and that a new era of innovative owners take hold across the league in Montreal, BC and hopefully the Maritimes.

x2

There have also been many who've "tended house" while not doing much to improve its value, e.g.: Braley in Hamilton, Toronto, and Vancouver, Pal Hal Ballard in #HamOnt, and I'll include Wetenhall too (though he was instrumental, with Larry Smith, in getting and partly funding the improvements to PMS). Others exist as well.

esquire Oct 29, 2019 7:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimB09 (Post 8732754)
Loving their Laval football team.

People have said that they don't think Quebec City would support a CFL team for the reason I stated above.

It doesn't take that all much to run a CIS football team... one would think they could co-exist.

That said, the level of support for the Rouge et Or is impressive:


Quote:

Carabins c. Rouge et Or : Foule record de 19 831 spectateurs
Victoire du Rouge et Or 16-3 le 20 octobre 2019 au Stade TELUS-UL.

https://live.staticflickr.com/1935/4...1f09292b_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/1923/4...48a3ebb8_c.jpg

thurmas Oct 29, 2019 9:00 PM

You would think with the prospects of the NHL ever relocating to Quebec City getting dimmer every year that some local owners would be interested in having CFL in Quebec and regenerate that awesome rivalry with Montreal on the football end of things as its far more feasible to do than relocating an NHL team and getting Bettman's and the NHL board of governors approval.

esquire Oct 29, 2019 9:01 PM

^ I would agree. For a while it looked like a NHL team was practically imminent but with the C$ being the way it is now I have to wonder if that plan isn't on hold for now. Good time for the CFL to get in there.

Andy6 Oct 29, 2019 9:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 8732890)
You would think with the prospects of the NHL ever relocating to Quebec City getting dimmer every year that some local owners would be interested in having CFL in Quebec and regenerate that awesome rivalry with Montreal on the football end of things as its far more feasible to do than relocating an NHL team and getting Bettman's and the NHL board of governors approval.

You’d think so but it doesn’t appear to be the case. They already have their rivalry with a Montreal football team, in a familiar and francophone-friendly context.

isaidso Oct 29, 2019 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy (Post 8732212)

[B]But so far, Lander thinks Schooner Sports hasn't proven they know what they're doing. "This ownership group has gotten everything wrong," he adds.

That's been my impression of them too. Of course they likely think the exact opposite. :uhh:

blueandgoldguy Oct 29, 2019 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad (Post 8732431)
Hell, there was virtually no marketing of the CFL game in Moncton even, let alone Halifax. They didn't even try, until about 2-3 weeks before the game, when I think it occurred to their beady little brains that there might be a problem there. :hell:

TD Atlantic #1 & #2 were very well organized (and well attended). TD Atlantic #3 was obviously just the CFL brass going through the motions, and not surprisingly was a relative failure. TD Atlantic #4 resembled #3 quite a bit.........

I really don't think LeBlanc knows what he is doing.

Yes, leblanc is clueless as evidenced by his tenure with the Arizona coyotes. This SSG ownership group has little skin in the game for a new Halifax Stadium. This is one of the reasons their proposal will almost certainly fail.

It's a shame Leblanc is involved in the supposedly best ownership group trying to bring a CFL franchise to Halifax. Hopefully, another group emerges in the near future that is more organized and Leblancless.

blueandgoldguy Oct 29, 2019 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime (Post 8732649)
It's not just these two, however. Halifax also got the NLL this year, and they already have junior hockey and basketball. They low key became a very crowded sports market.

True, but the basketball team averages like 1500 per game and probably doesn't take much disposable income from the local population. I wonder how much longer that team can actually survive with those types of numbers?

4 teams would likely be a sweet spot for Halifax

Junior Hockey, Lacrosse, Football and Soccer.

blueandgoldguy Oct 29, 2019 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8732744)
Why is this the only guy people talk to, when in the past he has said some of the most ridiculous, CFL ignorant pronouncements. One I can recall off hand is he said Halifax need a 25k to 30k stadium. Some of the stuff about marketing he said was untrue but I'd really like to know what gift was handed to them.

I think I've accepted, unless there are some major changes to each side, that these two idiots for sides in this venture have blown it but go back and read some of the statements this dork (Lander) has made and you'll wonder why reporters keep quoting him, pure unadulterated laziness.

25k would be an ideal size so I don't think is outlandish. The new stadiums in Hamilton and Ottawa are approximately in that range.

The fault lies mostly with the Leblanc-led ownership group. Poorly prepared, poorly organized...not really putting any money into the stadium...they are essentially just paying for the rental of the temp stands and a yearly rental fee.

Their funding scheme for the stadium is highly dubious and the location is not particularly ideal. This will fail in the relatively early stages because the stadium proposal is so terrible council probably realizes they can only move the parameters of it so much that it will still not be particularly attractive for them. Anyways, Leblanc said if they reject it, the ownership group will not provide any revisions...so they basically want a free lunch.

If ownership stated they would be willing to invest something like $20 million heck maybe even $10 million in the permanent part of the proposed stadium for things like the locker rooms, coaches rooms, therapy rooms, offices, I think council would be open to researching the proposal further..give it serious consideration. That's not the case here.

Council will be wise to nip this in the bud as I think will happen.

blueandgoldguy Oct 29, 2019 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 8732890)
You would think with the prospects of the NHL ever relocating to Quebec City getting dimmer every year that some local owners would be interested in having CFL in Quebec and regenerate that awesome rivalry with Montreal on the football end of things as its far more feasible to do than relocating an NHL team and getting Bettman's and the NHL board of governors approval.

There is a common perception that Quebec City was denied an expansion fee in favor of Las Vegas...and then Seattle. There is no concrete proof that Quebec City ownership was willing to spend $700 - $850 million Canadian to acquire a franchise. I and many others don't think they are willing to actually.

The new arena in Quebec - which was desperately needed anyways - was constructed when the dollar was near par and the idea of a $500 million expansion fee was thought to be ludicrous. I'm sure prospective ownership thought the fee would be closer to $300 million or even less given the supposed value of the some of the franchises. Turns out that wasn't the case.

LakeLocker Oct 29, 2019 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8732413)
You make it sound like Halifax could only support one or the other but that is clearly not the case. A metro of 400,000+ can easily support both.

Obviously CPL has an advantage in that it requires much less of a venue which is why they're up and running in Halifax.

The longer this saga with Leblanc drags on, the more it looks like Ambrosie has poisoned the well for maritime expansion for another generation. Oh well. What's Quebec City up to these days?

It could support both but it also sink the CFL.

As you point out there is minimal overhead with the CPL.

If it were an easy sell QC, London, KCW, Victoria, would all have CFL teams.

I personally think some sort of Ontario team being split between London/KCW would make more sense.

LakeLocker Oct 29, 2019 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy (Post 8733014)
There is a common perception that Quebec City was denied an expansion fee in favor of Las Vegas...and then Seattle. There is no concrete proof that Quebec City ownership was willing to spend $700 - $850 million Canadian to acquire a franchise. I and many others don't think they are willing to actually.

The new arena in Quebec - which was desperately needed anyways - was constructed when the dollar was near par and the idea of a $500 million expansion fee was thought to be ludicrous. I'm sure prospective ownership thought the fee would be closer to $300 million or even less given the supposed value of the some of the franchises. Turns out that wasn't the case.

You can't equate a buy in fee with the cost of buying an existing franchise.

With revenue sharing, a union and national tv contracts on the table a large portion of that expansion fee can come back to the owner.

blueandgoldguy Oct 29, 2019 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeLocker (Post 8733038)
You can't equate a buy in fee with the cost of buying an existing franchise.

With revenue sharing, a union and national tv contracts on the table a large portion of that expansion fee can come back to the owner.

Revenue sharing and the tv contract are required just for the franchise to break-even. The expansion fee is a one-time bonus.

The bottom line is that Quebecor never explicitly stated they were fine spending $700 million or more to secure an expansion team. The ROI would almost certainly not justify for an ownership group that is beholden to shareholders.

LakeLocker Oct 30, 2019 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy (Post 8733047)
Revenue sharing and the tv contract are required just for the franchise to break-even. The expansion fee is a one-time bonus.

The bottom line is that Quebecor never explicitly stated they were fine spending $700 million or more to secure an expansion team. The ROI would almost certainly not justify for an ownership group that is beholden to shareholders.

It does make you wonder if the NHL is pretty much setting up the recipe for a WHA style competitor league.

If Ottawa gets moved out of the country it is only a matter of time before Hamilton/QC/GTA2/Ottawa start a league.

TorontoDrew Oct 30, 2019 6:38 PM

Hi Elly63! Can't wait for Keith Lionel Urbahn, how about you?

VANRIDERFAN Oct 30, 2019 6:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 8733935)
Hi Elly63! Can't wait for Keith Lionel Urbahn, how about you?

Maple Leafs sucking too much for your taste so you have to drop a deuce in the CFL thread?

elly63 Oct 30, 2019 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN (Post 8733976)
Maple Leafs sucking too much for your taste so you have to drop a deuce in the CFL thread?

But remember, he doesn't troll. He said it and I believe him!


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