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-   -   CALGARY | Brookfield Place Calgary | 247M / 811 FT | 56 Floors (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202479)

Surrealplaces Nov 16, 2012 4:36 PM
CALGARY | Brookfield Place Calgary | 247M / 811 FT | 56 Floors
 
Site demolition is happening so I thought it would be a good time to start up this thread.

SSP Building Page. This project has been going be the name Herald Square, but the developer's name for the project is 225 - Sixth
http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=78859

It should also be noted that there may be a design change on this one. The Developer (Brookfield) bought the rest of the block, and is now offering more space in the total development..... 2.4 million Sq ft instead of 1.2 million sq ft.


http://brookfieldofficeproperties.co...IXTH-6746.html
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8480/8...663671dd_b.jpg
225 - 6th Ave by Calgary Renders, on Flickr

Surrealplaces Nov 16, 2012 4:41 PM
Some recent photos from the Calgary section

Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel (Post 5904014)
Herald Square site update, taken from a meeting I had yesterday at Suncor West Tower. Sorry for the reflections.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9162/imag0099d.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1634/imag0100le.jpg

patm Nov 16, 2012 4:45 PM
fyi according to site, the floor plate square footage comes out to roughly 51 stories.

If it's as tall as the render suggests (not a guarantee, could still go both ways) then it will be the 2nd tallest building in Calgary.

Dale Nov 16, 2012 4:53 PM
With today's floor-to-ceiling heights, and particularly with any sort of roof feature, 51 stories could translate to well over 800'.

Deepstar Nov 16, 2012 6:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patm (Post 5904061)
fyi according to site, the floor plate square footage comes out to roughly 51 stories.

If it's as tall as the render suggests (not a guarantee, could still go both ways) then it will be the 2nd tallest building in Calgary.
I had heard a figure of 53 storeys.

TallBob Nov 16, 2012 8:12 PM
Hope it inds up around 60+ floors. Unfortunately, we might be waiting a while for this one!

Dale Nov 16, 2012 9:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallBob (Post 5904298)
Hope it inds up around 60+ floors. Unfortunately, we might be waiting a while for this one!
Does that mean they're just likely to create a surface parking lot in the interim ?

TallBob Nov 17, 2012 3:09 AM
Dale: Unfortunately probably yes.... Believe me, I hope I'm wrong!

Deepstar Nov 17, 2012 7:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale (Post 5904365)
Does that mean they're just likely to create a surface parking lot in the interim ?
Hard to say. The office space vacancy rate is very low, and they just might go ahead and build on spec...it has been done here recently and has been successful. I'm guessing it may sit idle for a while.

Deepstar Nov 20, 2012 5:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale (Post 5904365)
Does that mean they're just likely to create a surface parking lot in the interim ?
This is the latest from the Calgary construction thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unibrain (Post 5907650)
There's a lot of technical things about the site (and decisions made from the owner).

The urgency is to get the existing buildings torn down as they were costing a hefty penny to operate anyway. There are at least four new tower proposals in the downtown core that will be coming. With FCC2, Keynote Office and the Palliser towers all in for DP already, HS wants to get in the ground quick. They are really tempted to go ahead with the current proposal, with the West tower to be a separate project at a later date. The most ideal solution is to tweak the plans slightly and have shared services between both towers and the ability to share underground parkades later.

I dont think we'll be getting the new tallest, but we will be getting a quality office building on this site.

Everybody is holding onto their hats, and waiting for someone to really pull the trigger.

There's talks that we'll see a new downtown hotel get under way next year.

evolv Nov 20, 2012 5:54 PM
Has there been any indication of when they might start demolition of the bow parkade?

LeftCoaster Nov 20, 2012 5:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepstar (Post 5904912)
Hard to say. The office space vacancy rate is very low, and they just might go ahead and build on spec...it has been done here recently and has been successful. I'm guessing it may sit idle for a while.
Yes they may build this on spec, but no the previous spec building (EAP) was not successful.

This one may begin now but it is a long way away since the parking requirements of it are somewhat astronomical they will be digging for a while.

The higher parking requirement also adds to the cost of the building substantially so they will need a tenant willing to pay somewhat higher rents then expected, which may take a while to find and therefore influence their decision to go on spec or wait for preleasing. I'll try and keep this thread up to date on what I hear.

Dale Nov 20, 2012 6:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepstar (Post 5908081)
This is the latest from the Calgary construction thread.
Dizzying.

Dale Nov 20, 2012 6:09 PM
I guess I still don't understand why developers place a huge premium, on being first out of the chute, we they know full-well they'll still have to compete, for tenants, with projects that broke ground later.

drto Nov 20, 2012 6:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 5908105)
Yes they may build this on spec, but no the previous spec building (EAP) was not successful.

This one may begin now but it is a long way away since the parking requirements of it are somewhat astronomical they will be digging for a while.

The higher parking requirement also adds to the cost of the building substantially so they will need a tenant willing to pay somewhat higher rents then expected, which may take a while to find and therefore influence their decision to go on spec or wait for preleasing. I'll try and keep this thread up to date on what I hear.
I'm not sure I understand your logic on why EAP was not successful, built on spec and now fully leased (as I understand it to be) and what specific parking requirements are your referring to that would be any different from other highrise projects, that would "add to the cost of the building" therefore requiring higher rents.:shrug:

LeftCoaster Nov 20, 2012 7:30 PM
The only reason EAP is fully leased is because they took awful rents to fill it up. The development was a complete failure financially and a lot of people at SITQ lost their jobs over it.

Regarding parking, Brookfield is under different parking provision requirements than some other competing projects, such as city centre, which had older parking regulations grandfathered in. The new requirements Brookfield is subject to require much more parking per leasable SF and therefore result in a more expensive product to the end user, making it harder to lease up.

LeftCoaster Nov 20, 2012 7:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale (Post 5908125)
I guess I still don't understand why developers place a huge premium, on being first out of the chute, we they know full-well they'll still have to compete, for tenants, with projects that broke ground later.
It's not a huge deal, but developers want to be the first to get occupancy because it makes the leasing much easier. Office buildings take a long time to build so most tenants would rather take the building completing in 2016 rather than 2017.

As well in most markets (Calgary seems to inexplicably defy this) there is a finite demand for space, so if you are the first to market, you can snap up the majority of the good tenants while the later to market buildings are left with the scraps. This is less pronounced in Calgary due to the near insatiable demand, but there are still better tenants than others and they will often get scooped up first.

Dale Nov 20, 2012 7:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 5908261)
It's not a huge deal, but developers want to be the first to get occupancy because it makes the leasing much easier. Office buildings take a long time to build so most tenants would rather take the building completing in 2016 rather than 2017.

As well in most markets (Calgary seems to inexplicably defy this) there is a finite demand for space, so if you are the first to market, you can snap up the majority of the good tenants while the later to market buildings are left with the scraps. This is less pronounced in Calgary due to the near insatiable demand, but there are still better tenants than others and they will often get scooped up first.
Gotcha, makes perfect sense.

LeftCoaster Nov 20, 2012 8:49 PM
Ya it's not a huge deal, and by no means does it mean that launching your project first guarantees success or that by launching second you will not have as much or more success than already launched projects, but it usually provides a slight advantage in what is a very competitive industry.

Surrealplaces Nov 20, 2012 9:31 PM
I didn't realize that people had lost their jobs over the decision to go ahead. Still looking at it overall, the project would have to be considered a success regardless of how the leasing came about, or that some people lost their jobs. I don't know how these deals go down behind closed doors, but right now the people who wanted to build on spec don't look so bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 5908255)
The only reason EAP is fully leased is because they took awful rents to fill it up. The development was a complete failure financially and a lot of people at SITQ lost their jobs over it.

.


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