SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/index.php)
-   Buildings & Architecture (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/forumdisplay.php?f=397)
-   -   NEW YORK | 650 Madison | FT/M | FLOORS (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=205686)

Eidolon May 22, 2013 5:36 PM

NEW YORK | 650 Madison | FT/M | FLOORS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 6134518)
Could be some very close competition as the luxury highrise craze heats up in New York...it would probably come after though.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...420710814.html
Quote:


Quote:
Even some successful properties near Central Park are being eyed for a change to residential use. Consider 650 Madison Ave., a 27-story office tower, which has been put up for sale. Although it fetches top-tier office rents, the property's seller is highlighting in marketing material that a buyer would be able to tear it down and build a condo tower, with hotel and retail, in its place once the properties' leases expire.

An 800-foot residential tower could be built on the site at 60th Street, according to marketing material sent to potential buyers by advisory firm Eastdil Secured LLC. It's a "development opportunity without peers," the marketing material says.
May 19, 2013
By ELIOT BROWN





http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...son_Avenue.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...son_Avenue.jpg

More tall buildings for this part of Manhattan is exactly what we need. I do wonder how long this building will be a significant feature on the skyline though, with all the new ultra-luxury residentials popping up like mushrooms after a rainstorm I think that it might be essentially hidden on all sides as soon as 10 years from now.

Crawford May 22, 2013 5:46 PM

This tower, if built, would likely break all sales prices records, IMO. Even 432 Park would be topped.

That stretch of Madison is A++ prime and would have incredible Central Park views.

There are no height limits on this site, so I wonder how tall they could go. I know the article says an 800 ft. tower could be built, but I think they're just offering a rough estimate. This section of Midtown has no height limits.

Eidolon May 22, 2013 5:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6137395)
There are no height limits on this site, so I wonder how tall they could go. I know the article says an 800 ft. tower could be built, but I think they're just offering a rough estimate. This section of Midtown has no height limits.

I agree with your assesment, we will likely see a skinny X3Utra-luxury supertall on this site.

MarshallKnight May 22, 2013 6:37 PM

Whoa, is that true about the lack of height limits? This would be such an epic spot for a superdupertall (what I've taken to calling 1500~ footers), to balance 225 W. 57th. 432 Park had better sell their Central Park-facing units quickly, before people realize this thing will be going up right in their sight lines.

Crawford May 22, 2013 6:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarshallKnight (Post 6137475)
Whoa, is that true about the lack of height limits? This would be such an epic spot for a superdupertall (what I've taken to calling 1500~ footers), to balance 225 W. 57th.

There are no height limits in this section of Midtown, but there could be other practical considerations that would make an extreme supertall less likely.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. In any case, I think we'll see something extremely tall and expensive.

And, yeah, if we could balance out 225 W.57, that would be obviously fantastic.

reencharles May 22, 2013 11:00 PM

So, I hope that Extell buy this building. Or, I hope the new owner of this place has thoughts like the Gary Barnett. :haha:

scalziand May 23, 2013 3:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6137489)
There are no height limits in this section of Midtown, but there could be other practical considerations that would make an extreme supertall less likely.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. In any case, I think we'll see something extremely tall and expensive.

And, yeah, if we could balance out 225 W.57, that would be obviously fantastic.

An 'extreme supertall' is probably not likely here because of the bulk restrictions in the zoning.

Doing a back of the envelope calculation, it seems like there's anywhere from 500,000sf to 800,000sf of air rights available, depending on any extra air rights purchases and FAR bonuses(plaza, etc), which would definitely be enough for an 800'-900' tower.

The zoning lot itself is zoned C5-3, which has a base FAR of 15; given a lot size of ~36,000sf gives 540,000sf. Transfer some air rights from neighboring buildings on the block, and add a plaza (each square foot of plaza space yields an extra 10 square feet of buildable air rights), and the total is bumped up another couple hundred thousand square feet.

NYguy May 23, 2013 1:56 PM

Usually when they give height estimates, they're talking about floors. So 70 floors becomes 700 ft, etc. So, they could be projecting an 80 floor building here, but it's still early. The views here would be as good or better than all of the other towers going up in the area.

franktko May 23, 2013 2:46 PM

So the seller says that the site could *potentially* be transformed into a residential project and we have a thread for a 800 FT residential tower proposal? Isn't that... a bit hasty?

Crawford May 23, 2013 2:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franktko (Post 6138565)
So the seller says that the site could *potentially* be transformed into a residential project and we have a thread for a 800 FT residential tower proposal? Isn't that... a bit hasty?

What is hasty? This is for proposed projects (i.e. projects that don't exist, though may one day exist).

I'm particularly intersted in what a developer will pay for this site. It isn't just the value of the potential condo units, it's the retail. You have some of the highest rents on the planet on this stretch of Madison, and the current building is a bit unwieldy for retail.

I would imagine they would have extensive multifloor retail base, then topped by condos or a condo/hotel

franktko May 23, 2013 3:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6138573)
What is hasty? This is for proposed projects (i.e. projects that don't exist, though may one day exist).

I know what a proposal is. But usually, someone, some company, is actually making a proposal, even if it's just a vision. We have none of this here. I'm not going to open a thread for each vacant lot we have here in our downtown with the potential building that could be built on it according to zoning...

Crawford May 23, 2013 3:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franktko (Post 6138620)
I know what a proposal is. But usually, someone, some company, is actually making a proposal, even if it's just a vision. We have none of this here. I'm not going to open a thread for each vacant lot we have here in our downtown with the potential building that could be built on it according to zoning...

Ok, but that has nothing to do with this thread.

The building is being sold for redevelopment. It has nothing to do with "potential building that could be built according to zoning".

franktko May 24, 2013 2:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6138622)
The building is being sold for redevelopment.

I don't agree with you on this one Crawford. What I read is that some salesman is pitching that this site could potentially be a redevelopment, if someone interested really wanted to, as long as he waited for all the leases to expire, Although it fetches top-tier office rents. And then, according to Marketing Material (whoever that guy is), if a redevelopment do occur, a 800 ft tower could potentially be built on this site. There are a lot of ifs in there...

MM guy didn't even have a proposal for this site. Where is the proposal coming from that we have a thread for? I stand by my statement: isn't it a bit hasty to have a thread for this proposed 800 ft residential tower on this site?

But I'll admit that there is potentially a lot of potential in this site :P

Crawford May 24, 2013 3:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franktko (Post 6139537)
I don't agree with you on this one Crawford.

Well, we'll agree to disagree, I guess. There's no such thing as "proposed" in a NYC building timeline. A building is either as-of-right (and therefore requires nothing besides filing a permit) or it isn't.

In NYC, there's no obligation for a project to give any public information on any aspect of the project, except for the permit filing itself, so I don't know what you would require for a project. I guess you could only limit buildings to those that have a building permit, but that would eliminate 95% of this section.

I thought the whole point of the Proposed section is to detail potential future construction projects of interest. Certainly, given the location, this is a site to watch. That's why I assume the thread was created, while for most proposed projects, at least in NYC, we will never have threads (because a random side-street tourist hotel, to take one common current example, isn't remotely interesting).

I'm no mod, but if you think the Proposed section is too cluttered, we should get rid of all the crap projects. The random stuff is what makes this section too unwieldy. Also the silly stuff, that everyone knows won't happen (random giant towers by non-name developers in low-demand markets). This site, if it's redeveloped, would likely be one of the most high profile residential projects anywhere, and is a hell of a lot more likely to happen than some of these threads I see in this section.

easy as pie May 24, 2013 11:57 PM

yeah, not to get site-rules meta, but there's nothing proposed in any way, shape or form. this is just as/more likely to be purchased by an institutional investor as by a developer who'll pull together the 700-900 million bones to make this a 800 floor tower. really jumping the gun.

Eidolon May 25, 2013 12:47 PM

^^^
I made the thread since RobertWalpole made one on SSC and I'm guessing he knows something that we don't.

NYguy May 25, 2013 4:52 PM

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...94N0V120130524

Exclusive: In surprise, General Growth eyes New York office tower

By Ilaina Jonas
May 24, 2013

Quote:

General Growth Properties has paired with Brookfield Office Properties to bid for an expensive New York building in what could mark the No. 2 U.S. mall owner's entry into a new segment of the retail real estate market, according to two sources familiar with the deal.

Bids for the 27-story office and retail building at 650 Madison Avenue, one of the toniest shopping and office districts in Manhattan, could exceed $1.3 billion, the sources said.

Other bidders include Vornado Realty Trust, one of the sources said. The decision on the winning bid is expected next week, the source said. Eastdil Secured is brokering the sale of the building, which is owned by private equity firm Carlyle Group LP.

General Growth's interest in the building, which has not been previously reported, surprised industry executives. The company has long focused on operating malls and buying the New York building would mean a foray into what is known in the industry as urban street-level retail real estate.

NYguy May 29, 2013 1:55 PM

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/201...4-billion.html

Manhattan Tower Said to Get Bids of Up to $1.4 Billion


By David M. Levitt and Hui-yong Yu
May 28, 2013


Quote:

A midtown Manhattan office tower majority owned by Carlyle Group LP is attracting bids of as much as $1.4 billion in what may be the biggest U.S. real estate deal since 2010, two people familiar with the sale process said. Final offers are due tomorrow for 650 Madison Ave., a 27-story building in the heart of Midtown’s upscale shopping district....

A $1.4 billion deal for the 600,000-square-foot (55,700-square-meter) building would exceed $2,300 a square foot, easily surpassing the record among large office towers of $1,583 a square foot paid for 450 Park Ave. in October 2007.

Some of the bidders are planning to redevelop the tower into residences as prices for luxury condominiums surge, according to one of the people. Much of the building offers Central Park views, Fasulo said.

NYguy May 31, 2013 5:27 AM

For a sense of place, a look at what could be a prime location for luxury condos. In an area already booming with new luxury towers, this could be among the hottest in Manhattan.
The bulky base leads me to believe that it could be demolished and rebuilt rather than converted.


Any action would be down the line though...



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/150520248/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/150520250/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/150520252/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/150520255/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/150520257/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/150520259/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/150520263/original.jpg



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/150520266/original.jpg

NYguy May 31, 2013 2:32 PM

Two recent deals show that this area continues to be the most expensive on all fronts...


http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...TATE/130539991

Hot dog! Rents near $200 a square foot in 2 deals
Financial firms ink the priciest office leases since the crash to secure space atop the GM Building and 9 W. 57th St.
Amount paid is nearly three times the midtown average.



By Daniel Geiger
May 30, 2013

Quote:

It's not just the weather that's heating up in New York, so is the top end of the commercial real estate market.

In recent weeks two financial outfits have plunked down near-record sums—just south of $200 per square foot according to several sources with knowledge of the deals—to secure office space in the Plaza district. At 9 W. 57th St., the hedge fund Ruane, Cunniff & Goldfarb Inc. inked a deal for the top floor, and over at 767 Fifth Ave., more popularly known as the General Motors Building, Brazil's Banco Itau, expanded its penthouse footprint.

The leases are the most expensive to get signed since the real estate boom in 2008, when a handful of $200-plus per square foot deals were done. But those exorbitant prices were paid when the market was flying high and a laundry list of office towers in midtown were charging rents pushing well above $100 per square foot.

Real estate experts say the leases showcase the disconnect between the wider market and the rarefied world of top-tier offices. "What drove these kinds of prices the last time was a vibrant economy and a shortage of space," said Joe Harbert, the eastern region president of Colliers International. "There's a shortage now of unique space, which is why these deals are happening."

9 W. 57th St.'s 50th floor penthouse and the GM Building's top floor, which is also on 50, both boast soaring views of Central Park. Both also have long had a mystique that has drawn deep pocketed takers, such as tenants in lucrative financial services businesses like private equity and hedge funds. Brokers familiar with the property say that tenants are attracted to the buildings' proximity to gilded residential properties like 15 Central Park West and areas like the Upper East Side, where many titans of the financial world live.


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:32 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.