Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation
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Maybe some of the funding for the Via Station in Vancouver will address this? It's really hard to say. |
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The VIA Station was renovated in the 1990s (or 80s?) when the bus depot moved over there and the white truss canopy that's there was installed at that time. |
:previous: Thanks. I have always thought that the skytrain and Pacific Central should have more of a direct link, possibly a sky bridge or an underground passage way? I have always found it strange you have to walk through that sketchy park. At least a partial walkway that takes you over main street would be nice (does the station renovations have any elements of this?)
How much design is left for the evergreen line (have the layout of the stations been drawn yet?) |
There is a walkway over Main St always has been. :shrug:
You can't connect the two with a skybridge as you would need to have it low enough to pass under the tracks and connect to a mezzanie level but high enough for buses to pass under on Station St. The best we can hope for would be a covered walkway. Besides that park isn't sketchy, it's acutally quite nice the only time I can remember it being sketchy was during that summer of tent cities. |
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What am I missing with this Amtrak plan? I've been on the Seattle train today and it's both expensive and mostly empty, where's the demand for a second line? |
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The second train is mostly for counter travel. No one travels on the train now because it's slower than the bus or driving. It's slower than the bus or driving because What Amtrak needs is integrated border services in Vancouver station, so it doesn't need to make a stop at the border. |
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Train: 2.5h Car: 3h (and I have Nexus). Bus: 4.5h So... you're not really right there. But Amtrak is like $80 one way per person, so hardly worth it. |
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Train VAC-SEA: 4:20 (3:55 return... I believe that's because on the way back, you go through the Border in Pacific Central (I think)) Bus: 3:20 - 4:40 (It varies, depending on time of day) Google by Car: 2:30 (up to 3:00 in traffic) I'd add 30 minute contingency, depending on the border, and that pretty much jives with what I've experienced. I've taken the train from Bellingham, but not from Vancouver. Also, tickets can be had for $30 (US). one-way/pp. I checked for tomorrow... and it's $35. Of course, most of the cheap seats are gone in the summer. Anyway, at $35, it's not a bad deal for a single driver... as it would probably cost an average car $20-$25 each way. It's just that it's slow. From Bellingham, it's only 2:25. What on earth takes that train 2 HOURS to get to Bellingham???!!!! The only things I can think of:
Most of these are problems north of the border. If they reduced the time to get to Bellingham to 45 minutes, the train would be a viable alternative to driving or the bus. These improvements won't happen until more people take the train. More people won't take the train until it is convenient (at LEAST two trains per day) There are quite a few people who go to Seattle from Vancouver regularly, including tourists. Most of them go by bus. If they want to go overnight, or for the day to go see a baseball game. It would be nice if they could take the train in the morning, stay night and take the evening train the next day. It's a shame, really, that this doesn't exist now. |
Wow, things have changed. Maybe the bus makes less stops. I can't explain the time of the train, since when I caught it last there were maybe 3-4 stops including the border, all 5 mins each, and otherwise the speed was great. Under 3 hours easily.
Of course the only reason I took it was the sale for $3.50 each way, per person. No joke! Anyway, at $39US each it's still a hard sell. I drive to Seattle with my girlfriend in our Yaris and it's $50Cdn for gas (at Canadian prices). Tough to justify. |
$50 in gas to Seattle in a Yaris? Do you have a lead foot? I went from Vancouver to Portland and back on $50 in gas in my Corolla, and that's was when gas was in May when gas prices were inching towards the all time high.
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Curious... how did discussion of the train to Seattle end up in the Evergreen Line Rapid Transit section? I mean, its a great topic (and a sincere JOKE how poor and slow the train service to seattle is), but I think maybe it deserves its own thread?
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I dunno, I just got caught up in this off-topicness. Perhaps we're just trying to kill time before construction of the Evergreen Line actually starts, then we'll have designs and construction progress photos to oggle over.
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I'd add another $10. Add another $10 for parking. You have more freedom with a car, mind you. You're now getting close to the price of a return train ticket. However, that's only if you're solo. You're right about the stops, though. There are only 4 stops before Seattle. Bellingham, Mt. Vernon, Everett, Edmonds. They could even advertise day trips into Bellingham for shopping. You know what's funny... Bellingham's ferries go to Victoria in the Summer. They're passenger-only ferries and they depart from the ferry Terminal which is right beside the Amtrak station. It's a 3-hour ride, costing $49. They go directly to downtown Victoria. The train is $14 to Bellingham. While the ferry price is a little high and obviously geared toward tourists, you could technically leave Vancouver, cross over the border to Bellingham and assuming you arrive before 9:00am in Bellingham, hop on the Ferry to Victoria for a 3-hour tour... :D $64 and 5 hours later, you'd be in Victoria. Kind of funny. But this route isn't much longer than the public transit route: From Vancouver by public transit: ~75min. by bus to Tsawassen (2 buses) 1:45 on the Ferry 75min to Downtown Victoria. So... By Amtrak/ferry $64 and 5:00+ By public transit $20 and 4:15 . By Coach, $40 and 2:30. By Heli-jet, $75 and 0:30. If they reduced train travel between Vancouver to Bellingham to 1 hour it would actually be competetive (time-wise) to go through Bellingham!!! it SHOULD be possible to reduce the travel time, there is only ONE stop (though I'd like to to see NO stops and border control to be in Pacific Central). It really only needs track upgrades. Of course, all this begs the question... If Pacific Coach lines can survive on a $40/trip by bus, and Bellingham can charge $50 for a 3-hour trip, what's stopping a ferry from downtown to downtown (even if it was seasonal) from doing the same? $30/trip geared toward tourists at first. I can't think of what travel time would be... but it couldn't be more than 3 hours. I know it's been tried before... but I can't find the details. Anyone remember? edit: Yea, this should be in its own thread, perhaps... but there's not a lot of information on it, anyhow. Here's a long term plan for Amtrak Cascades. Hmm... this thread went off-track on post #1023, when the budget allocated money for a Evergreen and possible Pacific Central upgrades. |
Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation (Planes, Trains, & Automobiles)
Okay, after some thought, I decided to create a new thread.
This thread will be centered around: Commuter Rail:
Heavy Rail (Regular and High-speed):
Short distance planes/helicopter:
Cars & Buses:
And of course Intercity Water transport:
I'll start with a link to WSDOT's long-term plan for Amtrak Cascades. The plan, on page 15 says the goal is 2:37 between Vancouver - Seattle by 2023. It goes on to say what is needed to meet that goal. I'll add some more ideas that I have when I get some time. Where do you think Vancouver could use the MOST improvement in intercity travel? |
Okay: More info I gathered from the WSDOT's Long-term plan:
Page 46: Currently (2006) from Bellingham: To Seattle: 2:25 ( ~170km of rail ) To Vancouver: 1:48 (~100km of rail) Mid-point Goal: To Seattle: 1:59 (26 minute improvement) To Vancouver: 1:39 (46 minute improvement) 2023 Goal: To Seattle: 1:44 ( 41 min. improvement total) To Vancouver: 0:50 ( 58 min. improvement total) Average Speeds: BEL - VAC: Now: 56km/h Mid: 60km/h 2023: 120km/h BEL-SEA Now: 70km/h Mid: 85km/h 2023: ~100km/h (this includes station stops) These speeds are average, and obviously VAC - BEL will be faster as there is only the border. The planned maximum speed is ~175km/h (110mph) Currently, trains are legally limited to ~127km/h (79mph) Without building dedicated tracks, that's probably the best we'll do, but as you can see, most of the upgrading would appear to be on the North side of the border. The biggest improvements coming after building a White Rock By-pass and Colesbrook - Brownsville High-speed track(Surrey) [p. 105], which, combined with Improvement south of the border in Mt. Vernon, Bellingham, Blaine and Everett, will shave 50 minutes off the trip length. |
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Anyway, my point was that Amtrak is too expensive right now, and hence not popular. Which goes back to my original question, where's the demand for a second line? Their 2023 plan is ambitious, but if the service gets better I only see the price escalating accordingly, and still not being worthwhile. |
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For a single passenger, it's on par with the car for price, once you factor in parking and other costs. I won't include the cost/km for a car, but it is a factor, even if people don't think about it. It's a whole lot cheaper to take the ferry to Vancouver Island. ~$30 round-trip including buses on each side, instead of $112, but in proportion, there are a LOT more cars on the Ferry. Granted, not everyone is going to downtown Victoria, but still, not that many wanna take buses on each side. Why? It's inconvenient and slow. Amtrak is not convenient for Vancouver residents and it's slow. If it could address those problems and bring travel time to within 3 hours (competetive with the car) people would pay higher prices to ride it. It's not about demand for second train. It's about creating a minimum service level so that demand can be created. How can you market a train route that doesn't exist? For all intents and purposes, the train to Seattle doesn't exist. The times are VERY inconvenient. You leave at 6PM and arrive at 10PM. The return train comes back the next morning. If you want to do short trip to Seattle, you either have to stay two full nights or you go for an evening. People are willing to pay for something if it's convenient. That's why the Heli-jet is so popular between Vancouver and Victoria, despite it being more expensive. PS. Can a mod move these to the Heavy Rail thread that was created? |
Is it just me... or is it that this is a new project TransLink just listed on their website...
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:previous: I think this was talked about a long while ago somewhere on this forum, maybe when the study was commissioned. That or i heard about this project in the news. I think it is a good idea. There are way to many at grade rail crossing in Metro-Vancouver. One of the worst is in Pitt Meadows where Harris road (the main road in Pitt Meadows) crosses the CPR right beside a WCE station.
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