SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/index.php)
-   Supertall Construction (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/forumdisplay.php?f=323)
-   -   NEW YORK | One World Trade Center | 1,776' Pinnacle / 1,373' Roof | 108 FLOORS (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=123628)

CoolCzech Jan 28, 2007 1:58 AM

The Freedom Tower Exists for Anyone Who Truly Believes in It
The first part of those columns being installed in December.
Photo: Getty Images

How starved is the city for any tangible progress at ground zero? Well, consider this bit from today's Times:
Stand on Vesey Street, between Greenwich and Washington Streets. Look through the chain-link fences and over the Jersey barriers. The tops of six columns of the tower’s south perimeter are now visible, sprouting from the depths of ground zero. A seventh column, standing alone nearby, is where the Freedom Tower’s east plaza will be …
They are visible from the sidewalk now because a second tier of steel has been added to each column, bringing them up to about 8 feet below street level.


That's right, reporter David Dunlap gives you step-by-step instructions on where to stand, which way to face, and how hard to squint to see the thicket of steel that will eventually become the foundation for the Freedom Tower. Imagine the corks that will pop when the construction actually reaches sidewalk level.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2007/01...sts_for_a.html

CoolCzech Jan 28, 2007 2:03 AM

Too many memories?
Guardian Unlimited, UK - Jan 26, 2007
The Freedom Tower will not look much like his notion of it, and its name will surely be ditched quietly after Bush leaves office; but there will be a ...

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/art/archi...998965,00.html

********************

What a condenscending, ignorant turd... doesn't even know George Pataki is the one who named it, and that he has left office and that the name of the tower is still Freedom Tower.

Daquan13 Jan 28, 2007 6:18 AM

He's another one of the many Freedom Tower haters who just wants to spew his crap.

Lecom Jan 28, 2007 8:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee J Buividas (Post 2594077)
Things have changed around here, but I can't find the memorial thead.
Sorry for the unrelated post.

Lee, where have you been all these years?

Lee J Buividas Jan 28, 2007 3:24 PM

Lecom maybe I should try to say it differently :) the forum catagories have changed lately and I thought there was a separate thread for the actual wtc memorial not the buildings. I was just curious about the actual memorial and where that thread might be if there is one.

Lee

kznyc2k Jan 28, 2007 8:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolCzech (Post 2594121)
What a condenscending, ignorant turd... doesn't even know George Pataki is the one who named it, and that he has left office and that the name of the tower is still Freedom Tower.

Uh, everything he said was correct. The way you interpreted it is what's wrong. I can see how it might sound like he implies Libeskind was the one who named the FT, but he didn't come out and say it, so technically he's not off. And perhaps he's making a point that the FT will be renamed when Bush (not Pataki) leaves office..? yes it's a far stretch, but he's not wrong in saying it. I do agree he's condescending, but really what art critic isn't?

kznyc2k Jan 28, 2007 9:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daquan13 (Post 2594475)
He's another one of the many Freedom Tower haters who just wants to spew his crap.

Did you even read the article or at least the paragraph the sentence came from before spewing your predictable crap? He doesn't "hate" the FT one bit. He said that Libeskind's FT won't end up much like he imagined it to be. That's it! No hatred there!

Come on Daquan.. that response was LAME.

CoolCzech Jan 28, 2007 9:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kznyc2k (Post 2595342)
Uh, everything he said was correct. The way you interpreted it is what's wrong. I can see how it might sound like he implies Libeskind was the one who named the FT, but he didn't come out and say it, so technically he's not off. And perhaps he's making a point that the FT will be renamed when Bush (not Pataki) leaves office..? yes it's a far stretch, but he's not wrong in saying it. I do agree he's condescending, but really what art critic isn't?

Uh, everything he said was correct except that the things he said that are dead wrong. Bush didn't name the tower, Pataki did, and (while I don't know what your personal definition of "wrong" is), there is certainly nothing "correct" about saying that the most famous tower in the world will suddenly be referred to as the anonymous-sounding "1 World Trade Center" just because Bush leaves office in 2 years.

Frankly - I don't see what your point is. You concede that he's wrong about a Bush connection with the name of the tower. You concede he was condencending. So what are you arguing over, anyway?

ScottG Jan 29, 2007 2:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalton (Post 2567931)
I'm glad there was gridlock. What if everyone had barged ahead with that original twisted Libeskind nightmare scenario? Time was needed for proper perspective. This is going to be a center of finance and commerce long after people have forgotten about 9/11. No offense meant here, but I still think the memorial is too elaborate and costly. Keep in mind that in 20 years almost no one who hadn't lost someone in the attacks will care about it in the least. It will just be two large fountains to them.


9/11 was the worse attack in recent history. it not only changed america but the entire world! There is not one country that wasnt affected by it. ever procedure, every urban planning, etc has changed because of 9/11. of course it will be remembered for 20...50 years! the fountains are not only a memorial, but serves as a statement that america was not beat. the WTC design cannot just be about image, but it is in the worlds eye. everyone is watching to see how america can overcome a blow to the face. The design shows that we remember, and we fight on. The families or people that were impacted might not visit everyday or have much of an interest after many years. but for people who do not know about 9/11 will be impacted. Just like any memorial site- the haulocaust, pearl harbor, battle grounds, etc. it is for people to learn what happened, how it happened, how it ended.

Ground zero is even more of a focus because it is in the heart of america's busiest city.

Lecom Jan 29, 2007 3:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee J Buividas (Post 2594813)
Lecom maybe I should try to say it differently :) the forum catagories have changed lately and I thought there was a separate thread for the actual wtc memorial not the buildings. I was just curious about the actual memorial and where that thread might be if there is one.

Lee

Lee, I did not intend to say it in a negative way (e.g. "you noob, aint seen the forum layout or something?") but I just haven't seen you around much lately at all. I still remember when you posted years ago, and usually had something insightful to add to the conversation (something more forumers need to learn).

Nowhereman1280 Jan 29, 2007 3:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kznyc2k (Post 2595342)
Uh, everything he said was correct. The way you interpreted it is what's wrong. I can see how it might sound like he implies Libeskind was the one who named the FT, but he didn't come out and say it, so technically he's not off. And perhaps he's making a point that the FT will be renamed when Bush (not Pataki) leaves office..? yes it's a far stretch, but he's not wrong in saying it. I do agree he's condescending, but really what art critic isn't?

Well there is this one thing that makes him wrong, the fact that the name of Freedom Tower and George Bush's presidency are completely and utterly Logically unrelated. Other than that little hang up, there is a slight chance in hell that this building will not be called Freedom Tower. Think of of the paperwork and shit that would have to be changed just to consider renamming it... Its not going to happen and I have to agree, the guy who wrote that article did come off sounding as a bit of a moron...

Lee J Buividas Jan 29, 2007 3:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lecom (Post 2596073)
Lee, I did not intend to say it in a negative way (e.g. "you noob, aint seen the forum layout or something?") but I just haven't seen you around much lately at all. I still remember when you posted years ago, and usually had something insightful to add to the conversation (something more forumers need to learn).

Thanks Lecom :) I don't have much to say these days, now that the major design work has been completed. As a designer myself I am just sitting back and enjoying the show. :) I do enjoy your comments especially so, because of your special insight having worked on this project. You are right a lot of these people really have nothing impotant to say or even interesting. They must not have much going on in their lives. ha ha ha

donybrx Jan 29, 2007 2:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 (Post 2596084)
Well there is this one thing that makes him wrong, the fact that the name of Freedom Tower and George Bush's presidency are completely and utterly Logically unrelated. Other than that little hang up, there is a slight chance in hell that this building will not be called Freedom Tower. Think of of the paperwork and shit that would have to be changed just to consider renamming it... Its not going to happen and I have to agree, the guy who wrote that article did come off sounding as a bit of a moron...

Yes...I recall in my own lifetime how tough it was to change the the "RCA" building in Rockefeller Center to "GE" after many decades; or the "PAN AM" building to "MetLIFE", among dozens of others...Cripes!..... We're talking about name changes against nearly insurmountable difficulties......:lmao:...and there were big signs involved...Gosh!

kznyc2k Jan 29, 2007 2:39 PM

^ good point, donybrx.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolCzech (Post 2595418)
...Bush didn't name the tower, Pataki did.....there is certainly nothing "correct" about saying that the most famous tower in the world will suddenly be referred to as the anonymous-sounding "1 World Trade Center" just because Bush leaves office in 2 years.

Frankly - I don't see what your point is...

I'm arguing in the writer's defense that it doesn't matter who named it, which is a point you seem to be stuck on. All he says is: "its name will surely be ditched quietly after Bush leaves office" - that sentence is not dependent upon who named it to be factually true, and he's not wrong in stating his opinion, no matter how unlikely to happen that might be. Also, I never conceded he was wrong. In fact I said the exact opposite: "but he's not wrong in saying it."

donybrx Jan 29, 2007 3:41 PM

The Freedom Tower, as a structure, in and of itself aside,....I submit, as I have before, that never in my born days have I seen such concentrated use of a site (and tragedy) by and for political purposes including the name 'Freedom Tower' and the 1776 thing, in particular by Pataki in conjunction with both the promotion by the RNC in staging the 2004 convention for election brownie points and earlier, in stirring the national emotions to lay the case for the Iraqi invasion 'come hell or highwater, right or wrong'.

I have been witness to what patriotism 'looks like' for longer than I care to let on. This particular dog and pony show didn't make the cut.

The building is not bad. It's probablythe best outcome for the circumstances under which it evolved, including the poorly handled design competition at the start. The circumstances around it were fairly disgraceful IMO; NY deserved better, the victims/survivors deserved better and so does the nation.

Dignity was scrapped in favor of opportunism, when it should have been central to the whole matter.

Harrrrumph.....

NYonward Jan 29, 2007 6:48 PM

The politics of the site are undeniable and, unfortunately, written. Just like we can't go back and un-elect Bush, we can't take the silly name Freedom Tower away. It's not worth the effort to change it. If it ever changes it will be because of something completely unrelated to this argument.

Scruffy Jan 29, 2007 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donybrx (Post 2596684)
Yes...I recall in my own lifetime how tough it was to change the the "RCA" building in Rockefeller Center to "GE" after many decades; or the "PAN AM" building to "MetLIFE", among dozens of others...Cripes!..... We're talking about name changes against nearly insurmountable difficulties......:lmao:...and there were big signs involved...Gosh!

thats funny. 5 years after the name change i was still calling it pan am building. finally i just had to let it go and now finally metlife comes natural. But i still call citigroup center, the citicorp. dont even think about it, it just comes out. Its interesting how a name can stick in your head. im sure that they will quietly stop calling it the freedom tower once its built and gets the moniker 1 wtc or such but in the public eye, they are going to keep calling it the freedom tower. in 2000 i can guarantee you that at least 25 percent of new yorkers did not know what the world trade center was. im serious. they knew the towers by sight but didn't know the name. not everyone cares about towers. empire has the history, the fame to common knowledge but prior to 9-11 the names of the twin towers were irrelevant. but now its been so stamped into our minds that they are building this "freedom tower" that i dont think that name will ever leave our collective consciousness.

Dac150 Jan 29, 2007 8:27 PM

^^^^^^^^Well I disagree with that. The Twin Towers/WTC were always known by name prior to 9/11. Thats just like saying people in Chicago don't know the name of the Sears Tower. It's just plain stupidity. When you have two 110 story towers in your city, its pretty damn hard not to know what they are named.

MattSal Jan 29, 2007 10:04 PM

Whats wrong with the name freedom tower?

pico44 Jan 29, 2007 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattSal (Post 2597516)
Whats wrong with the name freedom tower?


Sounds like cheesy propaganda, if not a bit jingoistic.

Its gonna be an amazing project on it's own. We don't catchy titles and flags pasted on every surface to remember what happened there and what country we live in.


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:47 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.