Ron Joyce Centre at the DeGroote School of Business | ? | 4 fl | Construction
 

Burlington Post:

Is Mac deal dead?
City staff recommend council not commit $10 million to project
By Jason Misner
News
May 04, 2008

McMaster University's second attempt to build a Burlington campus may soon face an impasse.

Burlington city staff are recommending to Wednesday's (May 7) community and corporate services committee that the municipality not give $10 million toward construction of a proposed $25-million business school.

McMaster's preferred location for a campus is a 3.6-hectare (nine-acre) private site, on the South Service Road, west of Appleby Line.

The location is a change from an original 2006 downtown site proposal that Mac officials ultimately abandoned, citing a lack of space for future expansion.

City staff's rationale for its recommendation is that the new site selected by Mac "provides limited benefits to the city..."

Council members have stressed in the recent past that a city contribution would not come without debate. Wednesday's vote on the staff recommendation stands to be a crucial decision for politicians since Mac officials have repeatedly said the $10-million municipal contribution is critical to the creation of a Burlington campus.

"For it to be an option for us, we need to have appropriate financing," Ilene Busch-Vishniac, McMaster provost, told the Post last month. "We started with this project because the City of Burlington was interested in having post-secondary (here)."

The city committee meeting will be held the night before McMaster's board of governors is scheduled to debate the new site option -- including a business plan and detailed building design -- on Thursday (May 8).

DeGroote School of Business Dean Paul Bates said in an interview on Friday that it's "very premature" to discuss the prospect of Burlington not contributing money to a campus. He acknowledged the outcome from the meeting would be important as Mac charts its future direction for a city campus.

"A lot has changed since that original (downtown) commitment was made, not the least of which there have been a number of other significant commitments the city has made," he said. "I have huge respect for the folks who work at City Hall."

Asked if the campus could proceed without city funding, Bates said: "It's too early to ask that question."

The dean is hopeful a deal that works well for Mac and the city can be reached.

"We are working on the premise that we'll find the right resolution on this," he said, adding he plans to attend the Wednesday meeting.

Mayor Cam Jackson said he doesn't think a decision by the city not to give money, would necessarily kill a campus deal. The city knows Mac's needs but Mac needs to know what the city needs, he said.

"...there is a will to try and make an arrangement work," he said. "I'm quite confident McMaster will give us time to analyze this South Service Road location."

Jackson said Mac has been working on tight timelines, making it tough for the city to fully review the latest campus concept as it budgets for a number of other big-ticket projects including a $36.2 million performing arts centre.

"We have a lot of capital projects on our table," Jackson said. "We want to make sure this is the right location, that there's room for expansion; we want to determine McMaster is serious about a campus environment and not just a single building. We're looking for a long-term relationship with McMaster."

The 12-page staff report -- available at www.burlington.ca -- outlines five scenarios for councillors to consider for support of a Mac campus. The option being recommended -- which states the city's "gratitude" for the school's proposal -- is one that doesn't provide cash.

"...the proposed McMaster campus would be a catalyst for economic growth. However, balancing the $10-million investment required to realize this opportunity against the many other priorities and needs of the community is the difficult challenge facing council," said the report.

The Burlington Chamber of Commerce supports a Mac campus, and had been supportive of $10 million being paid to the university when the original plan was to build in the core.

Chamber president Keith Hoey said he couldn't comment on the recent staff recommendation to withhold money since it hadn't been debated yet, nor would he discuss what Mac's reaction might be if it was approved.

He did say he's "concerned" about Mac's reaction if council votes not to give money toward the project.

"I would be concerned that if council decides not to spend the $10 million, that will have a negative impact on McMaster's decision, meaning McMaster might decide to not come and I believe that's a bad thing for the city," he said.

Wednesday's committee meeting starts at 6:30 p.m. at City Hall, 426 Brant St.

hahahahahahaha

They should build it in downtown Hamilton, they could expand endlessly on the parking lots around King William. But I know Mac wants a Burlington Campus, and Burlington council is right to prefer it downtown. The suburban highway campus approach is ridiculous in this day and age.

It needs to be relocated here anyways:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=149951

This is when Mayor Fred should get Michael DeGroote, Braley, or Joyce to help convince Mac to think about downtown Hamilton instead as they'll likely give $10 million for Hamilton.

Hamilton already has Mac, what value does one more location bring (apart from the fact it would be downtown). IMO, Hamilton should seek out another university to locate downtown. If York, Western, Queens, U of T, etc. were to locate in downtown it would give Mac some competition and it's always good to keep the incumbent on their toes, also it would expand the desirability/marketability of downtown Hamilton.

I absolutely agree. 100%

the city seems to be very sensitive and cautious about approaching other universities - naturally, courting other schools would be the smart thing to do. along those lines, i think the city should push for mohawk to relocate downtown. you could abandon that campus tomorrow and nothing would be missed.

Good.. It's a ridiculous location anyway. The DeGroote School of Business is 15 minutes away.

I guess that PR person's dream of seeing a "MAC" sign on the highway won't happen. It's a sad state when it's becomes prestigious to be located on a 'service' road and not in a downtown.

The signs along the QEW between Burlington and Etobicoke don't do as much as people think. Most of the cars that travel the roadway are the same schleps everyday, they're not paying attention or giving a crap because of a business' sign adorning a blank wall on a nondescript bunker building on the crappy service road. And yet, look at how many of those signs are former Hamilton businesses.

Just from memory these businesses used to be in Hamilton or have roots in Hamilton, some were downtown. and now line the Service Road in Burlington.

OK&D Marketing
Canon
IBM
Bay Area Investigation
Laidlaw
Tim Hortons HO
Gennum
JanKelley Marketing
Royal Bank
Voortmans

I worked once in one of these Service Road Boxes and never again. You're completely stuck there. One road in and out, makes QEW rush hour traffic a relief when you finally get off the Service Road. Forget about busses, walking, biking, even a car barely functions at lunch time. The air quality is worse then anywhere, the surrounding landscape makes your cubicle look like a slice of heaven. And if you ever work at night, or you're a female worker, it is scarier then anywhere on Barton Street or Gore Park for example. Remember the reason why Dalton Timmis left the HSBC building. I know they didn't go on the service road, but sited safety concerns for female workers.

I like this idea better.

It woul be great to have another school downtown.

May I suggest brock?

No offence but they have a slight image problem that could be improved if they had a decent urban campus perhaps. They also already have a Hamilton campus in the east end, so bringing that downtown and expanding it so that it's more than just the teachers college could be feasible.

that said, i think it's really sad that mcmaster is looking at burlington when they could move downtown for next to nothing, and reap the benefits of the campuses being linked via lrt :-)

:tup:

Brock downtown would improve their image.

Imagine if Brock decided to put their Teaching Program in the proposed Education Square?

Any additional university campus would be great in downtown, no matter which university.

Currently, U of T is worried about other universities moving into Toronto and 'eating their lunch'. There are lots of universities putting on part-time masters (especially MBA's) in downtown Toronto.

One way to combat this issue, the U of T is now looking at moving undergrads out of their downtown campus, and into their satellite campuses (Scarborough & Mississauga) and beefing up (consolidating) their post-grad studies in downtown Toronto.

Now wouldn't Hamilton make a great satellite campus, for some of those undergrad students. I'd prefer post-grad, but would be happy with some undergrads at least to start.....

i've often the thought it would nice to have brock downtown. that said, the number of teacher candidates at that campus is fairly miniscule [can't remember the number]. furthermore, they recently purchased that school from the board and have invested a lot into it. an australian teacher's college recently opened a campus in burlington near the qew...sound familiar? perhaps there are some other international schools out there.

They did recently purchase it, but the city could (and possibly would) offer them a sweet deal as a sort of trade up.

Believe me, they have not invested a lot into it -- beyond converting some classrooms into small blocks of offices.

Their program "Sells out" every year, and I'm sure they would be open to the idea of taking in more students if they had appropriate facilities!

^ontario universities pump-out too many teachers these days - something like 75% of first-year teachers can't get jobs after graduating and it isn't supposed to get much better in the future - but i understand your point.

i recall something about brock investing nearly $1M into that school but perhaps i'm wrong.

$1M over how many years though? that probably includes years worth of snow removal and lawn cutting too hahah

Tim Hortons as a corporate entity was ALWAYS headquartered in Oakville and never "abandoned" Hamilton--Tim lived in Don Mills and Ron lived in Aldershot--so they put the office in the middle--it was as simple as that.