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-   -   PHILADELPHIA | The Development Thread VIII (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=173431)

McBane Mar 5, 2012 1:33 PM

Re: Lombard Estates - Un-flippin-believable.

pwp Mar 5, 2012 2:16 PM

Loving all this development news on a Monday morning :banana:

Londonee Mar 5, 2012 6:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343 (Post 5613465)
I agree... I don't even understand why developers need to go through these absurd processes. Why does the community have any say?! At all?? The developer owns that land... end of story. The developer shouldn't even need approval for something like that unless the zoning needs to be changed. Absolutely ridiculous.

There are too many examples of developers running wild for this to be true. Take a walk down the 700, 800, and 2000 blocks of South Street to get an idea of what i'm talking about. Disastrous, street destroying projects like this would never occur in today's climate--neighborhood groups would simply not allow it (thankfully). You just posted enthusiastically about Toll Brothers, a project which initially looked like shit, but b/c of SOSNA, revised it a few times to a much more palatable, urban friendly design. Large-scale Developers often don't care about urban context or neighborhood benefit, they are just trying to make a buck.

Really the larger issue is that the city's old codes had too many quirks that it almost needed a 3rd party hand to assist development. Hopefully the need for this will evaporate with a new, smarter code.

And, by-in-large, neighborhood groups are pro-development---just done the right way for the neighborhood. You run into issues when you have the lone, well funded, well motivated NIMBY wreaking havoc.

summersm343 Mar 5, 2012 7:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Londonee (Post 5616053)
There are too many examples of developers running wild for this to be true. Take a walk down the 700, 800, and 2000 blocks of South Street to get an idea of what i'm talking about. Disastrous, street destroying projects like this would never occur in today's climate--neighborhood groups would simply not allow it (thankfully). You just posted enthusiastically about Toll Brothers, a project which initially looked like shit, but b/c of SOSNA, revised it a few times to a much more palatable, urban friendly design. Large-scale Developers often don't care about urban context or neighborhood benefit, they are just trying to make a buck.

Really the larger issue is that the city's old codes had too many quirks that it almost needed a 3rd party hand to assist development. Hopefully the need for this will evaporate with a new, smarter code.

And, by-in-large, neighborhood groups are pro-development---just done the right way for the neighborhood. You run into issues when you have the lone, well funded, well motivated NIMBY wreaking havoc.

I agree that neighborhoods give good input into projects and make it better than what the developer planned (for the most part, 2116 chestnut was much better before the NIMBY's got involved). I am all for the community getting involved, but I do not think they should be allowed to stop construction from taking place when it is replacing a surface parking lot, an empty lot or an abandoned building. Look at the 19th and Arch project, which still hasn't started construction that would replace an empty lot because of NIMBY's complaining about their "light." Newsflash NIMBY's of the Kennedy House, your building is 300ft high and is casting shadows. How can you complain about shadow and light if you live in a highrise?!?!:haha:

McBane Mar 5, 2012 8:35 PM

But better design should be demanded by professional urban planners, not NIMBYs. All they ever complain about is building height, mythical shadows, parking, and traffic but then try to hide those complaints behind the old, "it doesn't fit in with the context of the neighborhood" line.

Do you think NIMBYs care one bit that higher density projects (such as high rises) bring in more taxpayers, help support local retail, and energize the streets? NIMBYs don't value great urban design, which is often why our city is overrun with red brick faux colonial garbage.

In short, NIMBYs are selfish and totally clueless. Like politicians, they have no business making demands on developers. Leave it to the professionals.

summersm343 Mar 5, 2012 8:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane (Post 5616214)
But better design should be demanded by professional urban planners, not NIMBYs. All they ever complain about is building height, mythical shadows, parking, and traffic but then try to hide those complaints behind the old, "it doesn't fit in with the context of the neighborhood" line.

Do you think NIMBYs care one bit that higher density projects (such as high rises) bring in more taxpayers, help support local retail, and energize the streets? NIMBYs don't value great urban design, which is often why our city is overrun with red brick faux colonial garbage.

In short, NIMBYs are selfish and totally clueless. Like politicians, they have no business making demands on developers. Leave it to the professionals.

Well said

theWatusi Mar 5, 2012 9:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyscraper.Phanatic (Post 5615323)
The real question is: When Dilworth Plaza is finished who will be hanging out there? The Watusi?

Are you talking about me or the breed of cattle? :haha:

Skyscraper.Phanatic Mar 5, 2012 10:24 PM

The Watusi (English pronunciation: /wɑːˈtuːsi/) is a solo dance that enjoyed brief popularity during the early 1960s. It was the second-most popular dance ...

IM TALKING ABOUT THE DANCERS; ARE THEY RELATIVES OF YOURS??

alasi Mar 6, 2012 2:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane (Post 5616214)
But better design should be demanded by professional urban planners, not NIMBYs. All they ever complain about is building height, mythical shadows, parking, and traffic but then try to hide those complaints behind the old, "it doesn't fit in with the context of the neighborhood" line.

Do you think NIMBYs care one bit that higher density projects (such as high rises) bring in more taxpayers, help support local retail, and energize the streets? NIMBYs don't value great urban design, which is often why our city is overrun with red brick faux colonial garbage.

In short, NIMBYs are selfish and totally clueless. Like politicians, they have no business making demands on developers. Leave it to the professionals.

Who could forget the anti-10 Rittenhouse crowd and their poster boards claiming about the shadows that would blanket the square.

summersm343 Mar 6, 2012 4:11 PM

http://centercityphila.org/news/2012...-march-5-2012/

Some news on the Center City Districts website today:

-Franklin Institute Expansion will begin in Spring and will open in 2014
-The Family Court Building will be completed in Spring of 2014
-The Zoo got approval to build a parking garage at 34th and Girard that will be completed by spring of 2013. The garage will also be part of the centennial district intermodal transportation center and will allow access to SEPTA.
-PATCO will improve Locust Street stop
-The new Dranoff Broad and South project is now called SouthStar Lofts which will have 85 apartments, at least one new restaurant and parking below grade. The project is to begin construction in the summer.
-The US Treasury awarded $50 mill to the city of Philadelphia to stimulate investments in development projects in economically distressed areas of the city

Cro Burnham Mar 6, 2012 4:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by We Got Five (Post 5612480)
A colleague of mine does Market Research for the chain and they are less than thrilled with the activity in and around the area. Apparently they were under the assumption that another higher end hotel or two would be developed in the area. It's not happening and they're likely to evaluate their position in the market shortly. It's a shame because it's a very nice hotel and the service is outstanding.

Apropos of Le Meridien environs . . . this'll thrill the market research team. Good way to impress wealthy visitors!

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/br..._City_bar.html

Four stabbed overnight at Center City bar

Four men were stabbed early this morning during a brawl outside a Center City bar, police said.

The victims, all in their 20s, were reported in stable condition after arriving at area hospitals in private vehicles following the melee at Big Bang's Bar and Grill at 1433 Arch St., police said.

Police said a fight inside the bar spilled on to the street, where the four were stabbed.

Two victims who had been stabbed in the back went to the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania while two others went to Hahnemann University Hospital, one with a back wound and the other with a wound to the left hand, police said.

Police were looking for a man who fled on foot.

No word yet on what triggered the fight.


The hotel owners would have been best off acquiring the rest of that block and shutting the existing businesses down before developing their hotel.

Pennsgrant Mar 6, 2012 4:47 PM

How I would rate my enthusiasm level for projects underway. 1-10

2116 Chestnut- 7 stars
Drexel Dorm Project-6 stars
Family Court -5 stars
2040 Market Addition- 4 stars
Hotel at 12th + Arch- 4 stars
Parking Garage 14th + Arch 2 stars
Penn Hospital Tower expansion- 1 star

Temples highrise -1 star would be a 6-7 if it were in Center City. Cant get too geeked up about a high rise at that location.

summersm343 Mar 6, 2012 5:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham (Post 5617419)
Apropos of Le Meridien environs . . . this'll thrill the market research team. Good way to impress wealthy visitors!

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/br..._City_bar.html

Four stabbed overnight at Center City bar

Four men were stabbed early this morning during a brawl outside a Center City bar, police said.

The victims, all in their 20s, were reported in stable condition after arriving at area hospitals in private vehicles following the melee at Big Bang's Bar and Grill at 1433 Arch St., police said.

Police said a fight inside the bar spilled on to the street, where the four were stabbed.

Two victims who had been stabbed in the back went to the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania while two others went to Hahnemann University Hospital, one with a back wound and the other with a wound to the left hand, police said.

Police were looking for a man who fled on foot.

No word yet on what triggered the fight.


The hotel owners would have been best off acquiring the rest of that block and shutting the existing businesses down before developing their hotel.

It still baffles me why this part of CC isn't better patrolled by police ESPECIALLY at night when all of the scum of society comes to hang around love park and Commerce Square/City Hall. There should be police on foot EVERYWHERE in this area. If there was, something like this probably could've been prevented.

summersm343 Mar 6, 2012 5:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pennsgrant (Post 5617438)
How I would rate my enthusiasm level for projects underway. 1-10

2116 Chestnut- 7 stars
Drexel Dorm Project-6 stars
Family Court -5 stars
2040 Market Addition- 4 stars
Hotel at 12th + Arch- 4 stars
Parking Garage 14th + Arch 2 stars
Penn Hospital Tower expansion- 1 star

Temples highrise -1 star would be a 6-7 if it were in Center City. Cant get too geeked up about a high rise at that location.

But why would Temple build a dorm in CC? That would be pointless.

Nightman Mar 6, 2012 7:52 PM

Xfinity Live
 
Construction is almost complete. See facebook pics below. The outdoor area looks pretty neat.


http://www.facebook.com/XFINITYLive

Ninjawho Mar 6, 2012 7:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham (Post 5617419)
Apropos of Le Meridien environs . . . this'll thrill the market research team. Good way to impress wealthy visitors!

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/br..._City_bar.html

Four stabbed overnight at Center City bar

Four men were stabbed early this morning during a brawl outside a Center City bar, police said.

The victims, all in their 20s, were reported in stable condition after arriving at area hospitals in private vehicles following the melee at Big Bang's Bar and Grill at 1433 Arch St., police said.

Police said a fight inside the bar spilled on to the street, where the four were stabbed.

Two victims who had been stabbed in the back went to the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania while two others went to Hahnemann University Hospital, one with a back wound and the other with a wound to the left hand, police said.

Police were looking for a man who fled on foot.

No word yet on what triggered the fight.


The hotel owners would have been best off acquiring the rest of that block and shutting the existing businesses down before developing their hotel.


This is the same place that had two guys drag racing after they left, eventually hitting a Chinese businessman. (He died I believe). This is an obvious nuisance bar. There's always something bad happening in or around it. I honestly don't think some of the places getting shut down in Strawberry Mansion, Mantua or Grey's Ferry were allowed to operate for as long as Big Bangs.

wally Mar 6, 2012 8:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightman (Post 5617714)
Construction is almost complete. See facebook pics below. The outdoor area looks pretty neat.


http://www.facebook.com/XFINITYLive

Sigh....this is what happens when good people do nothing.

summersm343 Mar 6, 2012 8:51 PM

Philadelphia Planning Commission adopted the Delaware Master Plan

http://planphilly.com/planning-commi...re-master-plan

Skyscraper.Phanatic Mar 6, 2012 9:01 PM

CRO Burnham your idea to shut the bars down is a lot better than the political views in your logo icon. Rather than wait to have the hotel acquire the land they should shut the bar down as a nussance bar. Or any biz in that area that causes a problem like you stated. One lost convention = millions in lost revenue to the city. - Never under estimate the stupidness of people on large groups? Who is controlling our city?

theWatusi Mar 6, 2012 10:22 PM

Where is the zoo garage going- the lot on the other side of the tracks across Girard from the schuylkill ramps?

On a side note, I had the displeasure of driving from City Ave to the Art Museum area via Lancaster and Girard today. It's a shame that stretch is so crappy with all the abandoned buildings and crackheads hauling scrap metal around in shopping carts. Not sure what it would take to spark any improvement though.


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