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-   -   Canada’s office space vacancy improved in the second quarter (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=192174)

ibz Jun 28, 2011 2:33 AM

The only remaining available space of Encana's that is being left behind is Encana Place across from the Palliser. All of other other remaining space currently occupied by Encana/Cenovus is leased (Bankers Hall, TD Canada Trust Tower, One Palliser). The opening of the Bow will have virtually zero effect on the Calgary office market. In case you were wondering...even Encana themselves who created this project to consolidate office space has leased over 300,000 sf in Telus Tower as there is not enough space in the Bow to accomodate their requirements.

EAP2 will start construction in early 2012, deals are being signed now. Most other Landlords with active development sites will be very actively marketing new projects. There are 3 'known' companies looking for 500,000+ sf right now and many many more looking for other various sizes of significance. That sub % vacancy rate will continue to drop rapidly.

Andy6 Jun 28, 2011 3:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking (Post 5330672)
once the cons kill the wheat board there will be more office space opening up in downtown winnipeg....the canwest space at portage and main is still empty...so is some of the agricore space and now that wellington west has been bought out by national bank, im sure thats on its way out.

but we have the jets.

Having the Jets will make a difference. Next time something like Agricore thinks about moving to Regina, execs are going to have to weigh losing their NHL box. Winnipeg couldn't have bought the positive publicity that the Thrashers purchase/season ticket sellout has produced, even if they did an advertising buy of $50 million. The city's reputation as a place that has no money, no initiative, no young people and no business activity is in tatters.

1ajs Jun 28, 2011 5:10 AM

winnipeg will just fill the space with small bushiness that will grow

Doug Jun 28, 2011 5:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74 (Post 5330639)
I'm thinking those office towers will need some serious retrofitting once their current tenants vacate, which will pull that space off the market anyway.

Just because I run or manage a start up doesn't mean I'll rent any old beatup space.

Bankers Hall is far from old and beatup. In fact, most of if not all of the space being let go by Encana is Class A or above.

North of 49 Jun 28, 2011 10:52 AM

I'm just wondering if there is was a debate about weather national head quarters for corporations and government institutions be de centralize to create balance throughout the country. The benefits of it economically and politically for the country as a whole.

I think there could be an argument behind it. 3 major population centers, a number of regional centers and a 1 world city (Toronto) sorry Vancouver and Montreal. Maybe it's a case on point already. why not 10?

There is so much demand in the Toronto area that it just seems a throw in the bucket for Toronto when you compare numbers with other centers. Even with Calgary's

PoscStudent Jun 28, 2011 12:21 PM

In an effort to save money the federal government is looking at moving employees out of private office spaces in downtown cores and placing the employees in cheaper offices outside the cores. It will be interesting to see how this will effect Class A office space.

caltrane74 Jun 28, 2011 2:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by North of 49 (Post 5331004)
I'm just wondering if there is was a debate about weather national head quarters for corporations and government institutions be de centralize to create balance throughout the country. The benefits of it economically and politically for the country as a whole.

I think there could be an argument behind it. 3 major population centers, a number of regional centers and a 1 world city (Toronto) sorry Vancouver and Montreal. Maybe it's a case on point already. why not 10?

There is so much demand in the Toronto area that it just seems a throw in the bucket for Toronto when you compare numbers with other centers. Even with Calgary's


The Star/Globe article that was posted stated that multiple projects could break ground in Toronto shortly.

1. 16 York (almost ready to go - 3 trailers on site already) - 160 meters
2. Bremner Tower - Excavation underway - although no announcement made - 130 or 140 meters????
3. Queen Richmond Centre - smallest of the upcoming projects - in a trendy area of the Entertainment District.
4. Waterpark Place - just announced last week

______ (Least likely of the 5 to have an announcement) is:

5. Bay Adelaide Centre (East Tower) - 196 meters

Coldrsx Jun 28, 2011 4:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibz (Post 5330734)
The only remaining available space of Encana's that is being left behind is Encana Place across from the Palliser. All of other other remaining space currently occupied by Encana/Cenovus is leased (Bankers Hall, TD Canada Trust Tower, One Palliser). The opening of the Bow will have virtually zero effect on the Calgary office market. In case you were wondering...even Encana themselves who created this project to consolidate office space has leased over 300,000 sf in Telus Tower as there is not enough space in the Bow to accomodate their requirements.

EAP2 will start construction in early 2012, deals are being signed now. Most other Landlords with active development sites will be very actively marketing new projects. There are 3 'known' companies looking for 500,000+ sf right now and many many more looking for other various sizes of significance. That sub % vacancy rate will continue to drop rapidly.

:cheers:
I like the cut of your jib.

Doug Aug 12, 2011 4:08 PM

Flurry of office leasing activity for downtown Calgary
Record pace drives down vacancy rate
By Mario Toneguzzi, Calgary Herald


http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...#ixzz1UpbxwX5d


CALGARY — Calgary’s downtown office market experienced a flurry of leasing activity in the second quarter of this year, recording the largest ever level of absorption of space for a single quarter, according to commercial real estate firm Colliers International.

A report by the company said the city’s downtown office tenants continue to absorb office space at an accelerated rate and those still looking for quality space in new buildings may have missed the opportunity for now.

Nearly 1.2 million square feet was absorbed in the second quarter alone — the largest ever for a quarter — and that brought the year-to-date absorption to 1.5 million square feet, almost equal to that for all of 2010.

The vacancy rate has dropped from 15.22 per cent on July 1, 2010 to 7.79 per cent at the end of June this year.

jmt18325 Aug 12, 2011 4:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74 (Post 5330614)
Wow! That's amazing and even still sitting at near 10% vacancy. Wonder what will happen when the Bow's leasee's move in and the current office space their renting goes on the market?

Any Honours MBA's wanna take a whack at that one?

Why is it so hard to accept that both Calgary and Toronto (along with Vancouver) can both be successful? Toronto is a great place, no question, but it isn't the only game in town.

caltrane74 Aug 12, 2011 5:28 PM

Where in that post did I post anything about Calgary or Vancouver being unsuccessful because they have high vacancy rates?

Coming down from 10% will be hard especially when the 2 million square feet inside the Bow comes online.

LeftCoaster Aug 12, 2011 5:34 PM

haha I forgot about that little argument, boy has time been my friend on that one.

Vacancy rate of 7.9%, even lower at 6.4% for AAA space. Vacancy is actually supposed to decline when the Bow opens its doors.

The only remaining large block of space left from the Bow fallout is at Encana place, 400,000sf, which considering the over 3 million sf of absorption Calgary recorded LTM Q2, is peanuts.

The Calgary market right now is unbelievable, its running at levels barely seen in the largest markets, recording absorption close to levels seen in NYC, which is having a great year as well.

Vacancy in 2013 is forecast to be in the low 5s on total, much lower for AAA. Expect to see at least 3 major office tower announcements over the next 12 months.

Doug Aug 12, 2011 11:54 PM

I'm guessing Calgary will have a couple of 500 fters underway by this time next year. EAP, City Center and Centennial3 seem primed to go. Could also see Bow South block, one of the Palliser twins or Century Park go ahead. EAP2 seems most likely as the foundation is in place.

ibz Aug 13, 2011 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74 (Post 5377322)
Where in that post did I post anything about Calgary or Vancouver being unsuccessful because they have high vacancy rates?

Coming down from 10% will be hard especially when the 2 million square feet inside the Bow comes online.

Except once again, nearly all of the space Encana currently occupies has already been re-leased to other companies. There will not be the glut of vacancy you keep suggesting.

caltrane74 Aug 13, 2011 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibz (Post 5377708)
Except once again, nearly all of the space Encana currently occupies has already been re-leased to other companies. There will not be the glut of vacancy you keep suggesting.

Unless someone plans on playing volleyball or dodgeball in an office 20 floors up, the space has to come from somewhere. Preleased or not, and it doesn't take a mathematician to figure that out.

Office space doesn't disappear into thin air, office workers don't burst into existance.

When the Bow comes online, vacancy will go up.

ibz Aug 13, 2011 2:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74 (Post 5377719)
Unless someone plans on playing volleyball or dodgeball in an office 20 floors up, the space has to come from somewhere. Preleased or not, and it doesn't take a mathematician to figure that out.

Office space doesn't disappear into thin air, office workers don't burst into existance.

When the Bow comes online, vacancy will go up.

Yes it will go up by 400,000 sq ft which is precisely how much space that Encana currently occupies that to this day that has not been re-leased. Nobody will be playing dodgeball in empty floors, the fine employees of CNRL, Apache and others who have already leased the "vacancy" will be occuping it.

Its not unreasonble to suggest that vacancy might stablize or perhaps tick up slightly, but for it to return to 10% as you suggest isnt going to happen. In a market of 38 million sf, that would suggest that over a million sf will become vacant in the next 12 months at the same time Calgary is experiencing record activity.

WhipperSnapper Aug 13, 2011 2:45 PM

There is a lot of flip flopping in Toronto. Companies are leaving old space for new towers while other companies are leasing the old space to totally retrofit over the next 12 months to eventually abandon their current locations.

This may be what Caltrane is suggesting. We know the majority of space Encana is abandoning is spoken for however, do we know the companies that will eventually occupy the space aren't going to abandon space themselves? This could take upwards of a year. By then, 500,000 or so square feet hitting the market might be a nice reprieve.

whiteford Aug 13, 2011 4:19 PM

there needs to be some extra space. having none at all is not a good thing. the faster they get some more built the better.

LeftCoaster Aug 17, 2011 2:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper (Post 5378094)
This may be what Caltrane is suggesting. We know the majority of space Encana is abandoning is spoken for however, do we know the companies that will eventually occupy the space aren't going to abandon space themselves? This could take upwards of a year. By then, 500,000 or so square feet hitting the market might be a nice reprieve.

The companies moving into the old Encana space are absolutely vacating some space, however the second tranche of vacated space is as well already spoken for as is the third and so on. Space is very difficult to come by right now and all classes of office space are predicted to decline in vacancy, straight through the Bow's opening.

And yes 500k of fresh space would be welcome news for the market, as it stands right now any substantial new supply is 2-3 years down the pipeline at the earliest.

As an aside any mod want to change the title of this to a general Canadian office space thread? Might make for some good discussion and the type of news discussed would often be a precursor to office tower development.

caltrane74 Aug 17, 2011 2:26 PM

I don't get it!

You guys keep saying, there is so much demand in Calgary and there isn't enough space, yet vacancy is close to 10%? (And all vacated space is spoken for)

Where is the logic in this please explain!/?


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