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-   -   Canadian Office Space Market (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=192174)

Ramako Nov 1, 2011 4:56 AM

I keep hearing about all the demand for office space in Calgary, but I haven't seen any recent activity aside from finishing off the Bow. Is anything breaking ground soon?

caltrane74 Nov 1, 2011 9:27 AM

There is that Tower from a couple pages back, Centinnial Place 3, looks like a clone of the new Royal Bank Global Headquaters which starts in Toronto next month. Seems like all new office towers will now be 30 storey fat boxes.

LeftCoaster Nov 1, 2011 1:55 PM

Calgary City Centre, EAP 2 and Herald Square all have some traction as well.

One or two of the aforementioned projects will be starting within 12 months. Almost for sure EAP and likely City Centre although Herald Square has a decent shot too.

And I don't think the Calgary office market is news to anyone but the most uninformed anymore. Even your regular joe on the street in Toronto knows what's going on out west.

Doug Nov 1, 2011 2:07 PM

Perhaps some insight into the demand in Calgary...

Is Calgary stealing Bay Street's thunder in mergers?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...rticle2220747/


Ontario, Quebec losing market share in mergers
boyd erman
Globe and Mail Blog
Posted on Tuesday, November 1, 2011 7:12AM EDT

Investment banking was once largely the preserve of folks in shiny towers in Toronto and Montreal.

Now, Calgary is probably the most heavily bankered city in the country, and firms are branching out and bankers are showing up in smaller centres across Canada. There are offices in towns like Saskatoon (MGI Securities) and Winnipeg (CIBC World Markets.) A report looking at merger activity by province helps to explain why.

The PricewaterhouseCoopers report shows that while companies in Ontario and Quebec once represented two-thirds of the merger and acquisitions activity in Canada, when looking at where the target is based, the two provinces are now down to about half. Ontario dropped from 47 per cent to 31 per cent in the past decade, and Quebec slipped from 29 per cent to 22 per cent.

Much of that market share went to Alberta. But most areas of Canada gained.

While M&A share in Manitoba is down, Winnipeg is once again seen as a "gateway to the west," for large financial firms looking for business. Saskatchewan is busier because it has uranium, potash and farm land that are coveted, the report says. The Atlantic provinces are also increasingly popular.

However, nobody will be abandoning Toronto any time soon. While Ontario has lost some market share on the sell side, it has boomed on the buy side. Buyers from Ontario make up 70 per cent of acquisitions with a Canadian buyer this year, according to PWC.

Here's a look M&A at market share by province of the company being sold, comparing 2011 and 2000. The analysis is by dollar value of deals.
•Alberta: Up from 17.1 per cent to 25.7 per cent.
•British Columbia: up from 5 per cent to 16 per cent.
•Manitoba: Down from 1.5 per cent to 1.1 per cent
•Ontario: Down from 47 per cent to 31.4 per cent
•Quebec: Down from 29.1 per cent to 22 per cent
•Saskatchewan: up from 0.1 per cent to 2 per cent
•Atlantic provinces: up from 0.1 per cent to 1.2 per cent

LeftCoaster Nov 1, 2011 2:15 PM

Despite where the M&A companies are HQed, nearly every M&A transaction in Canada worth caring about still occurs in Toronto boardrooms.

caltrane74 Nov 1, 2011 2:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug (Post 5463693)
However, nobody will be abandoning Toronto any time soon. While Ontario has lost some market share on the sell side, it has boomed on the buy side. Buyers from Ontario make up 70 per cent of acquisitions with a Canadian buyer this year, according to PWC.

Finally a category where Ontario punches above our weightclass!!!

freeweed Nov 1, 2011 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramako (Post 5463480)
I keep hearing about all the demand for office space in Calgary, but I haven't seen any recent activity aside from finishing off the Bow. Is anything breaking ground soon?

Yes and no, as others have mentioned. Calgary's real estate market is insanely boom-or-bust - we saw this last time too. We dropped to pretty much a zero vacancy rate, then suddenly everyone was out building for a few years. Then pretty much nothing, and I suspect we'll be close to bottoming out again on the vacancy rate before we see much activity. Then BAM! 5-10 new towers all underway at once.

It's a very strange way of capacity planning, but it's just what we're used to.

Calgarian Nov 1, 2011 6:24 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few large towers already in the works...

craneSpotter Nov 1, 2011 6:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 5463700)
Despite where the M&A companies are HQed, nearly every M&A transaction in Canada worth caring about still occurs in Toronto boardrooms.

Very true.

Coldrsx Nov 1, 2011 6:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeweed (Post 5463831)
Yes and no, as others have mentioned. Calgary's real estate market is insanely boom-or-bust - we saw this last time too. We dropped to pretty much a zero vacancy rate, then suddenly everyone was out building for a few years. Then pretty much nothing, and I suspect we'll be close to bottoming out again on the vacancy rate before we see much activity. Then BAM! 5-10 new towers all underway at once.

It's a very strange way of capacity planning, but it's just what we're used to.

And a terrible way to do things, let along what it does to the rest of the Province in terms of capacity, labour, pricing, and material availability... but it is forever tied to the O&G industry and that's how they roll.

davidivivid Nov 1, 2011 7:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidivivid (Post 5458877)
Between 2009 and 2012, 1.85 million sq ft of office space was built in Quebec City, the same amount as in Montreal, even though the Quebec market is about 5 time smaller than Montreal's. Despite this surge in construction, Quebec's vacancy rate remains low, at 4,8%. Hence, it is estimated that during the next two years, 1.1 million sq ft of additional office space will be made available in Quebec City (investments worth about $370M).

source: Altus InSite

http://www.lesaffaires.com/archives/...ontreal/536798

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim (Post 5458954)
That's cool, but the problem for building nuts like us is that none of that translated into any significant towers in either Quebec or Montreal!

I don't really agree with that Rico...at least about Quebec City!!! The Jules Dallaire towers might not be the most beautiful things but they still will be the second and forth tallest in the city. Also, even though they aren't very high, some rather interesting office buildings are either U/C or already built, for example:

Beenox HQ

http://bloguenerdz.ztele.com/wp-cont...ent-beenox.jpg
http://blogue.ztele.com/jouer-a-spid...s-dirait-4818/

La Capitale Insurance future HQ

http://bin.lacapitale.com/ecochantie...ecStAmable.jpg
http://www.ecochantier.lacapitale.com/


http://blog.monlimoilou.com/wp-conte.../jc1120818.jpg
http://blog.monlimoilou.com/index.ph...-estimauville/

Doug Nov 1, 2011 7:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74 (Post 5463707)
Finally a category where Ontario punches above our weightclass!!!

Except most of the buyers aren't Canadian.

caltrane74 Nov 1, 2011 7:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug (Post 5464046)
Except most of the buyers aren't Canadian.

Well even within Canada, Ontario is taking a serious beating, at least lately. This is at least something Ontario can be proud of, especially when we are competing against the likes of Alberta, Newfoundland, Saskachewen and British Columbia. In this case I'll take that 70% any day of the week, when in theory we should only be purchasing about 45% of the shares/stocks of companies.

Denscity Nov 2, 2011 5:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug (Post 5463693)
Perhaps some insight into the demand in Calgary...

Is Calgary stealing Bay Street's thunder in mergers?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...rticle2220747/


Ontario, Quebec losing market share in mergers
boyd erman
Globe and Mail Blog
Posted on Tuesday, November 1, 2011 7:12AM EDT

Investment banking was once largely the preserve of folks in shiny towers in Toronto and Montreal.

Now, Calgary is probably the most heavily bankered city in the country, and firms are branching out and bankers are showing up in smaller centres across Canada. There are offices in towns like Saskatoon (MGI Securities) and Winnipeg (CIBC World Markets.) A report looking at merger activity by province helps to explain why.

The PricewaterhouseCoopers report shows that while companies in Ontario and Quebec once represented two-thirds of the merger and acquisitions activity in Canada, when looking at where the target is based, the two provinces are now down to about half. Ontario dropped from 47 per cent to 31 per cent in the past decade, and Quebec slipped from 29 per cent to 22 per cent.

Much of that market share went to Alberta. But most areas of Canada gained.

While M&A share in Manitoba is down, Winnipeg is once again seen as a "gateway to the west," for large financial firms looking for business. Saskatchewan is busier because it has uranium, potash and farm land that are coveted, the report says. The Atlantic provinces are also increasingly popular.

However, nobody will be abandoning Toronto any time soon. While Ontario has lost some market share on the sell side, it has boomed on the buy side. Buyers from Ontario make up 70 per cent of acquisitions with a Canadian buyer this year, according to PWC.

Here's a look M&A at market share by province of the company being sold, comparing 2011 and 2000. The analysis is by dollar value of deals.
•Alberta: Up from 17.1 per cent to 25.7 per cent.
British Columbia: up from 5 per cent to 16 per cent.
•Manitoba: Down from 1.5 per cent to 1.1 per cent
•Ontario: Down from 47 per cent to 31.4 per cent
•Quebec: Down from 29.1 per cent to 22 per cent
•Saskatchewan: up from 0.1 per cent to 2 per cent
•Atlantic provinces: up from 0.1 per cent to 1.2 per cent

BC (Vancouver) more than tripled their M&A, by far a greater increase than anyone else, but not even mentioned above?

Denscity Nov 2, 2011 5:40 PM

Vancouver's triple A office space dropped to 1.2%. All time low. Luckily there's over 4 million sq feet of office space on the way.

caltrane74 Nov 2, 2011 5:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 5465321)
Vancouver's triple A office space dropped to 1.2%. All time low. Luckily there's over 4 million sq feet of office space on the way.


Now imagine if those 4 million square feet were to be housed in JUST 4 towers?

Metro-One Nov 2, 2011 7:32 PM

:previous:Trust me, many here in Vancouver (myself included) would love to see a new tallest office tower being built in Vancouver (and to be the tallest in the city).

But, that being said, I do believe we are getting some pretty decent stock out of this mini office boom:

1021 W hastings - which just had its ground breaking ceremony!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6136/...30a6ed75_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6129/...1658a7dd_z.jpg

http://www.1021westhastings.com/

this tower IMO is one of the nicest office towers to be built in our country, love its design and the intense density it brings to this city block. The small floor plates will be attractive to the countless mining firms in Vancouver.

The there is the Credit Suisse Tower being built around the Old Stock Exchange building.

http://www.iredale.ca/Libraries/Old_...t_01.sflb.ashx http://www.iredale.ca/Libraries/Old_...y_02.sflb.ashx

Another gem if you ask me. While the thread says it is 115.7 meters tall, I personally think it should be listed as 132.3 meters (the height of the screen). If you include the top of the mast it becomes 136 meters.


And then there is the Telus tower, which I like, the LED screens will be my favorite part of this tower, and it has a very prominent location.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f5...-gardens-1.jpg

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...vancouver.html

And the Bental 6 tower, which is now 50% pre leased.

http://745thurlow.com/gallerypics/ex...render_940.jpg

http://745thurlow.com/

So, not bad for sleepy little Vancouver! 4 20+ office tower u/c at the same time, and soon!

caltrane74 Nov 2, 2011 9:00 PM

The trend has been pudgy 20 to 30 storey office towers....

it sux!

Waiting for word on some of the bigger office towers, like Bay Adelaide 2(East) and 45 Bay Street. Then we can get excited about real office towers again. - Otherwise, we're gonna end up looking like Tokyo.

hmmmmm.... on second thoughts????

Vaillant Nov 3, 2011 1:34 AM

is there a high restriction in vancouver? it seems they will never get something at 200m and more!

Coldrsx Nov 3, 2011 2:19 AM

Welcome to the term 'view cone'


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