I absolutely love the Doughboy Square development... and the other neat infill going on throughout Lower Lawrenceville...

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg...ct-moving.html

Here's a rendering of the first phase... the rowhouses pictured are either completed or near-complete.
http://www.pittsburghcitypaper.ws/im...9/12_news1.jpg

...

Here are the renderings of the Crogan's Edge Townhomes in Lawrenceville by Moss Architects... they are currently U/C and look better in person.
http://www.mossarc.com/residential_13.html

http://www.mossarc.com/images/residential_28_1.jpg

http://www.mossarc.com/images/residential_28_4.jpg

The development really maximizes that wedge property... brilliant
http://www.mossarc.com/images/residential_28_3.jpg

...

Moss is doing the Highland Park Townhomes on Bryant... I think they're U/C too
http://www.mossarc.com/images/residential11.jpg

I had a chance to browse around Aquitectonica's portfolio, and now I no longer favor this project very much. Considering what they're building in Miami (Federal Courthouse) and in Mississippi (a really cool public building), this sucks! It's very uninspiring, dull, and boring. They talk about how this is on prime real estate; right smack in the middle of everything, and then they produce this architectural turd. Why couldn't they produce something that is more complementary to the recent PNC developments?

I suggest PNC representatives give Aquitectonica a kick in the ass for forcing their employees to look down on that craphole from their 33-story glass castle.

Agreed on all counts. I suspect "The Gardens" will never be included in Arquitectonica's "online portfolio". Millcraft and Ravenstahl bragged about this development for years... but it wasn't until viewing the elevation schematic that it was apparent just how underwhelming and lame The Gardens really is.

Because a small-time developer whose "expertise" is in suburban office parks and questionable renovations (Piatt Place, State Office Bldg apts) is doing it.

Why a firm with the international clout of Arquitectonica would work on this project is the question to be asked?

So I completely disagree with all the carping about The Gardens above.

Yes it has an above ground parking garage as part of the project. Since we are probably talking about 4-500 office workers and a 175-room hotel, plus 25,000 sqft of retail, likely most of that parking will be used internally. Since there isn't much excess parking nearby, it is not unreasonable for a developer to include such a parking element.

Would it be better if, say, that parking was underground? Probably, but that is expensive, particularly as you are getting to that low part of Downtown. But it certainly doesn't mean that the new office, hotel, and retail space doesn't count.

As for conceptually dividing up the different uses and asking how you would feel if they were separate projects: that is just a way to deceive yourself into not contemplating the project as it actually is. Any mixed-used building can be treated in that way (e.g., Three PNC is just a smallish hotel, smallish office building, and smallish condo building smashed together), but the obvious difference between that hypothetical set of separate projects and the actual project is that all this stuff is in fact in one building, which means it takes up less land, which means other valuable land is available for other projects.

Finally, there is no point arguing aesthetics, but I will just note that as recently modified, I like the new look, and I think it will add meaningfully to the nearby cityscape, including by working well with the nearby buildings (including both the old buildings along Fourth and the new Three PNC and soon-to-be-even-newer PNC Tower).

Edit: Oh yeah, and I like the trees on top of the hotel. That'll be cool to look at from Market Square in particular.

Press Release
 

http://www.riverlifepgh.org/news/pre...wharf_landing/
Still trying to make the mon warf more appealing to pedestrains. I'm still waiting for the promised flood wall.

I could be mistaken, but I don't recall there being a plan for an actual wall. Riverlife did create a riparian buffer with the Mon Wharf park by utilizing native plants to mitigate flooding. But I don't believe they ever said they would stop flooding from occurring there. In fact, they designed the park for easy clean up by installing hose hook-ups for post-flood clean-ups.

In any case, this will be a great addition. With the Convention Center spur and the Point Park renovations, the downtown segment of trails has greatly improved recently. Plus Tree Pittsburgh will be planting 400 trees along the South Side trail soon. Now, just waiting on the Smithfield Bridge connector and the Ft Pitt Bridge Connector.

Also, Wood St has been seeing a lot of lovin' lately.

Ok Brian... defend this one! ;)

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...-shore-397784/


Toby Keith bar in Auburn Hills, Michigan... more cartoon development for Pittsburgh!
http://www.cmt.com/sitewide/assets/i...11974-x600.jpg
"Eating here makes me feel more patriotic due to the pandering red-white-and-blue faux-American-flag logo design"

seriously craptastic

ugh just ugh.

I would have never thought 20 years ago with country out numbered by rock stations 6-1 that Pittsburgh would have big country concerts and a cheesy redneck chain bar.

I may or may not have mentioned this before but, no, Pittsburgh is not too sophisticated for a Toby Keith's.

And I am a fan of Pittsburgh and no big fan of country music.

it has nothing to do with sophisticated.

Nobody would mistake the city as such (overall).

:rolleyes:

What disturbs me is that this dorky Toby Keith bar seems to be the centerpiece of urban development proposals in Pittsburgh lately... before this Toby Keith was to be the linchpin of the failed riverfront portion of SouthSide Works (replacing a badass mixed-use mid-rise proposal that also never came to fruition). It's gimmick development by myopic developers that doesn't enhance the city at all. Of course... my personal loathing of Toby Keith's public persona makes this all the less palatable... I might not object so loudly if it was "David Bowie's Bar". :haha:

I'll have to decline that invitation. Two stories is pathetic.

Edit: Although I don't care about the Toby Keith's part.

Well, Brian, I guess you're free to call it however you see it, but I still see this as something uninspiring given that location. Sorry...

Regarding the Northside, I have nothing against Toby Keith, but I have a serious bone to pick with this suburban-style eyesore for the Northside. Are 10-12-story mixed use buildings too much to ask for? What did the master plan call for earlier? Didn't they map this area out as office where they intend to put this? They're only going to have one floor of office space above the Toby Keith bar and whatever else goes in on the ground level? I'm sorry, but that, to me, is not the best use of this land. This isn't Homestead or Robinson...

The Toby Keith development fits in with what the 2009 revision of the North Shore master plan calls for. There doesn't seem to be any projected heights on buildings... so perhaps they were aiming for 2-story structures all along.

The history of the North Shore master plan has several twists and turns... and has never really been subjected to public input. It's a very top-down approach with the City, its seemingly unaccountable quasi-government agency Sports and Exhibition Authority, the Steelers and the chosen monopolistic developer Continental. They developed a master plan in 2002. In 2006, Baltimore developer Cordish got on board to propose "North Shore Live!"... which would have been Pittsburgh's edition of their ubiquitous urban entertainment districts (Louisville's Fourth Steel Live!, Baltimore's Power Plant Live!, etc.). That was dropped eventually. There were also a couple proposals for 15-20 story mixed-use towers... though they may have been by developers not affiliated with Continental's North Shore monopoly... and were never mentioned again after one appearance in the newspaper. And of course... a local parking magnate proposed a 10-story tower on the site of the Toby Keith complex a few months ago. I don't know if it was a serious proposal... but it served to illustrate the absurdity of this entire development process.

Here's the exceedingly dull North Shore Master Plan:
http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/cp/...an_Booklet.pdf

There are three proposed buildings that are supposed to include a residential component... but I suspect the residential is a bit of an afterthought... and may possibly never materialize.
http://i36.tinypic.com/x1x380.jpg

1. As much as I may not like it, I concede that there is probably a need for more structured parking in Downtown Pittsburgh if new development is to occur. Parking will become more acute as transit service continues to erode. I am not opposed to the development of structured parking... especially as an element of a larger development. My issue is that The Gardens has been hyped for years... billed as a transformative mixed-use high-rise by Millcraft and Lord Ravenstahl. In reality... it's mostly parking garage with some token mixed-use additions. The renderings released to the media are reminiscent of the casino renderings... where they were hiding the structured parking element.

2. The trend in "urban development" in Pittsburgh that each building must be accompanied with its own structured parking that will be used internally is troubling... and unsustainable. In a dense urban district like Downtown Pittsburgh, we cannot squander scarce real estate on parking garage after parking garage. There need to be better transportation solutions.

3. Your 3 PNC analogy might be valid if that tower was 40% parking garage. The Gardens is going to have an amount of office space that might be appropriate for say... a loan processor in Moon Township... and yet another Hilton Garden Inn which will add nothing to the Downtown hospitality mix.

4. Unrelated... tomorrow is the last day for Saks. Looks like we'll all have to start scheduling bus trips to the cosmopolitan center of fashion... Cleveland.

I'm optimistic about The Gardens. It's a unique mixed-use development, though certainly a couple notches below 3 PNC, that looks pretty cool in the latest renderings. However, I think my final opinion will hinge on how visible the parking garage will be and the signage for the hotel. These two things could make or break it.. but I have no major objections with a garage being included, you have to almost expect it.

A two story office/retail 'thing' on the North Shore, meanwhile, is completely revolting. I don't understand it. Something is just wrong there. If the market isn't right or the funding can't be found for something at *least* 5-6 stories (if not 12+) then just leave it as surface parking to be redeveloped in the future.

I hope these time limits to develop the property that the city has imposed on the Steelers, Pirates and SEA isn't going to leave us with a bunch of garbage on the N. Shore as they rush to meet deadlines.

I think 40% parking is a high estimate given the way the western hotel part is wider than the eastern part, and the retail on the ground floor. But even accepting that estimate, I don't understand calling 60% of a building "token", and 40% of it "most" of the building.

Again, it is what it is: a mixed-use building that includes above-ground parking.

I've also been following the Gardens project for many years, as far back as when it was called "Forbes Village". I don't recall tons of hype about it being incredibly innovative--certainly nothing like, say, the hype over PNC Tower, or One Grandview, or RiverParc. I also recall the prior renderings, and I think this is by far the best iteration. This is what it looked like back in the Forbes Village days (circa 2006):

http://old.post-gazette.com/images4/...illage_450.jpg

Ugh. THAT was a dated design, and totally wrong in context (look how it fights the Fourth Avenue highrises). The new design is WAY better:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...r-market-a.jpg

I also think it always included a lot of parking--certainly for the last many years. For example, this is from 2008 . . .

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_575554.html

. . . and it mentions a 450-car parking garage (note that was around the high point in terms of scale--it started off more modest, then got bigger, then got smaller, and now is a bit bigger again but not as big as circa 2008).

Bottomline: I'm not saying this is the most exciting project ever discussed for Pittsburgh, but I don't think it is true it has been represented that way over the years. Again, it is what it is: a medium-size project filling in some grossly underutilized space. And it includes above-ground structured parking, which I agree is kinda sucky, but structured parking beats surface lots (which is a lot of what it is replacing):

http://binged.it/x2Bhm0

I honestly don't see any reason to hate all over The Gardens project, but that two story piece of crap with the Toby Keith's makes me want to vomit! :(

Aaron (Glowrock)

I don't really see anything wrong with the Gardens. Its not really what I would like to see, but its not horrible.

The reality is that new office space is not horribly viable right now, so Millcraft is taking a big risk. They want to minimize the square footage of the office space. They also received a lot of government assistance with their projects which might have been tied to new parking.

The Toby Keith building is a travesty. Not so much because of Toby Keith, but just because it doesn't maximize the site. There is nothing wrong with having Toby Keith as your anchor tenant.

People tend to forget that developing third party buildings is about making money - not about architecture.

I guess you have a point about the Gardens project, but architecturally speaking, since a very prominant architect is designing the building, it's lacking. Why couldn't they design it with more curves or triangular edges or something along those lines?

I agree 150% with the craphole that is the Toby Keith bar. Again, nothing against the bar itself; I might even consider going into one/it, but why do they design something that does NOT give the best use to the land. If they're going to make zoning laws in high-density urban core areas, then they should enforce a minimum height requirement. I'd go with a minimum of 5 or 6 floors to help maximize the use of the land.

I guess it does come down to dollars and cents. They don't care what goes where; as long as they can cut as many costs as possible I guess...

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_786996.html

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...wn-466635/?p=0

I'd like to see what becomes of that whole block of Smithfield Street now. IMO, there doesn't seem to be too much in the way of historically significant architecture there...

...Except for that 14-story building at the corner of Forbes and Smithfield...

Other than that, the Saks store, Wendy's, Revco, and whatever other armpit that's there can all go away...

I am more and more impressed with Lawrenceville. I LOVE that first rendering. Doughboy square is gonna be great as it fills in.
The only thing I'm not in love with in L-ville is the non-continuity of the business district. I mean, you've got lower, central and upper lawrenceville. Where is the epicenter? Where is the development going to continue? I really love this neighborhood and might move here someday. It really does feel like and up and coming southside although I wish it were more cohesive like the unbroken stretch of east carson street for like 25 blocks.

If you've been along Butler St. lately... you'd notice it's becoming increasingly continuous every day. I am amazed at how far Upper Butler as come in the past 6 months... lots of exciting new businesses.

Lawrenceville is definitely looking better and better, literally by the day! Hopefully it continues to improve, along with places like East Liberty! I tell you, I honestly believe East Liberty has the most potential out of almost anywhere in Pittsburgh, mainly because it's so centrally located. Seems like all roads lead there, quite frankly!

Aaron (Glowrock)

Yes, as a recent addition to Pittsburgh glowrock, I'm not sure if you knew that East Liberty was once the 2nd biggest shopping and commerce center in the city after downtown. You can tell it was built to be bustling.

East Lib is gonna be real nice and truly a critical mass of businesses have been established. No turning back now. I'm still personally more interested in Lawrenceville & Bloomfield in terms of attractive home prices, 2nd highest neighborhood home appreciation in the city after the still-growing southside and the two great business districts of Butler St and Penn Ave in Bloomfield that is evergreys old stomping grounds!

If i had unlimited money I might a super high end new construction masterpiece on the southside with a rooftop deck over looking downtown or else a modern townhouse on one of the tiny little deadend streets on Mt Washington that were still walking distance to the bars and restaurants up there. (Think Cola Drive).
Of cource, if Riverparc ever gets revamped, and I strongly believe it will when commercial lending hits its stride again in this country, I would really like to live downtown too.
I'm actually thinking about buying a very cheap house in Lawrenceville in the near future, renting it out, selling it for a bit of a profit that i could use as a down payment on a Riverparc-style condo and selling my primary home out here in Baden to put towards the purchase price. Time will tell.
Although Aaron Clark and Evergrey and everyone laughs at me, my plan to move to the city is still in effect and I inch closer to it every day. One day it will just happen! (By then all my friends will be moved away... :haha: )

Honestly, the biggest dilemma in my head is just which awesome neighborhood in Pittsbrgh do I want to settle in to! I think that's the mark of a great city when there are so many options. 88 neighbhoods in a tiny city boundary!
That's not even counting all our awesome first ring suburbs like Mt Lebo, Aspinwall, Bellevue etc.

Oh god, not counting the horrible saks building which I would love to see torn down, Smithfield St is one of downtowns GREAT streets. Amazing streetlife during the day, buskers singing, people playing instruments; I used to chill in Mellon Park on my lunch breaks then stroll down Smithfield and hit up an arcade down towards One Oxford Centre; Get a donut and do some people watching on the street. In short, Smithfield has soo much character!

I did a little house hunting in like November with my ex-girl. Went and looked at afew cheap homes in Lawrenceville and stopped at a couple business (Dozen bakery for cupcakes), That Latin-Asian fusion place (they were closed) so I settled for a greek restaurant.That neighborhood really has a pulse. it felt great. I just saw assorted gaps of empty lots in between businesses and a few intersections that kind of break up the cohesiveness, that's all. I saw several rendering signs too for mostly new townhouse infill. That type of thing will go far in helping. Overall I felt a sense of hope and excitement for the future of that area. It's invigorating. It actually reminded me of parts of Over-the-rhine in Cincinnati, not the density of OTR but the streetlevel aesthetic and brick architecture and funky vibe. Probably because they are both VERY old neighborhoods that matured in the late 1800s rather than early 1900s.

Here's a map I just construed of Lawreceville.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...cevillemap.png

Inside the red polygon lines is where I have been looking for homes and have a auto-homefinder email search setup that emails me about 2-4 new listings a week. It is CENTRAL Lawrenceville up to the beginnings of Bloomfield.
I circled the 3 areas of Lawrenceville to show where lower, central and upper are located. I don't really like the upper area. I don't want to be up near the 62nd bridge.(Is there any decent business district up there on Butler? or is it too isolated?) That is getting way out there, IMO.
Now Lower L-ville MAY be a possibility since I am impressed with the infill and expect that area that connects down to the strip district.

I truly want to be able to walk to some businesses/delis/the nightlife lounges/tennis courts & allegheny cemetary for jogging.

The gardens project will look great in terms of massing and in terms of infill. The design while not amazing is not half bad either. I think it will be great.
Pittsburgh NEEDS even a few mediocre projects to get the ball rolling towards bigger and better things. It's not like the Chrylser Building style landmarks are gonna be popping up left and right.

And can we please stop talking about Mr. Toby Keith before I stick a boot in someones ass. (BTW, check the Philly dev thread a few pages back; They were having the same sad conversation we were about this restaurant coming into their city) By the way... Toby Keith doesn't want to be fed... He wants to HUNT.....

• Video Link

Oh and by the way, PA Pride is now....Austinlee. My first and middle name. You can call me Austin on here. I got sick of PAP or Pride, considering I am not a part of the gay community and have not made the CHOICE to live a gay lifestyle like the rest of 'them'. :rolleyes: Thank you.

You'll always be PAP to me...no one can SMEAR the establishment quite like you.

:jester:

Just perfect!

Aaron (Glowrock)

Austin, good stuff!! Yeah, I do NOT have a problem with a Toby Keith bar and grill opening up. (I thought I did/would, but I don't.)

I guess we'll wait and see what the Gardens project looks like once construction gets underway and to see what other developments take place as a result of it...

My issue isn't with Toby Keith's bar opening up, it's that a two-story building is a complete waste of space on that property. :(

Aaron (Glowrock)

Thank you!!

If you go back a reread some of my posts, you'll find that I agree with you. It's prime real estate between the two stadiums, and they're going to waste everyone's time with this debacle. A development offering two floors of space just doesn't fly in a central business district like Pittsburgh. Zelienople, perhaps, but not in a space of land adjacent to Downtown...

Not only is this two-story Toby Keith redneck haven a pathetic proposal... but this is the culmination of over 10 years of North Shore planning by Continental and its partners!

Just embarrassing...

Some notes on the park and greenspace development front:

The Pittsburgh Parks Conservancy announced via Twitter that it expects to have at least some of the renovated Mellon Square Park reopened to the public by May.

Also, River Life Pittsburgh unveiled plans with Point Park University to create a "riverfront portal" to connect Wood Street to the parklet on the Mon Wharf.
Some renderings and details here: http://www.riverlifepgh.org/news/pre...wharf_landing/

Way to go, Riverlife! You guys do some awesome work!

Does anyone know exactly which spot this 2 story building is going to be occupying on the North Shore?

I don't know if it's the same footprint... but the Toby Keith development will be located at building 7.2 on the North Shore master plan... next to Stage AE.

http://i36.tinypic.com/x1x380.jpg

Here's a couple more fleshed-out articles concerning the Toby Keith project:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_787010.html



http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/12077/1217397-28.stm

So Herky Pollock is calling the 2-story Toby Keith project "the crown jewel" of the North Shore... yet Integra Realty is calling this "the only project marginally financially feasible given market conditions".

I see.. I was wondering if maybe it was going to be an area close to, or partially obstructed by, some of the overpasses. Nope. That is a very large and very prime spot. I'm fairly certain the parking structure behind it will be well above 2 stories.. which will make this building stand out in a negative way even more.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_787495.html

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...te-627216/?p=0