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-   -   NEW YORK | World Trade Center (original) Discussion (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=231457)

WTC Twin Towers Sep 23, 2017 7:30 PM

NEW YORK | World Trade Center (original) Discussion
 
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marrio...d_Trade_Center), the hotel was connected to the North and South Towers (the Twin Towers) of the original World Trade Center, and many went through the hotel to get to them. This website called "EMPORIS" (https://www.emporis.com/buildings/11...rk-city-ny-usa) also says that the hotel was connected to the Twin Towers.


But this image from a website called "AwesomeStories" (https://www.awesomestories.com/image...3362e69a6d.jpg) doesn't show anything connecting the hotel and the Twin Towers together.

So was the hotel actually connected to the Twin Towers?

WTC Twin Towers Sep 23, 2017 8:16 PM

Ok, I got it. I edited it to make sure that the website that I got the image from was credited for the image.

spidey7312 Sep 23, 2017 11:08 PM

The connection was underground, beneath the plaza. I'm pretty sure the entire complex was connected.

OptimumPx Oct 2, 2017 2:05 AM

Only the North Tower (1 WTC) had a direct connection to the hotel, but like spidey said the connection was on the mall concourse level, underneath the plaza. You could access the South Tower via the North Tower and the mall.
Here is a map of the concourse level showing the connection. :tup:

Here is a simpler map with green arrows showing the entry points for the buildings on the concourse level.

Casa Granda Oct 3, 2017 8:27 AM

I could not see the images so I did not know how it looked like. :(

OptimumPx Oct 4, 2017 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casa Granda (Post 7940708)
I could not see the images so I did not know how it looked like. :(

Can you see it like this?

Plaza Level (No connection)
https://i.imgur.com/SM7PxPY.jpg

Concourse Level (Connection between 1 and 3 WTC)
https://i.imgur.com/fmzP5Lg.jpg

The other image is far too large and detailed to embed directly into a post.

WTC Twin Towers Jan 3, 2018 2:50 AM

The original 6 World Trade Center building had 8 stories?
 
Many websites say that the original 6 World Trade Center building had 8 stories, but according to this Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...d_Trade_Center), the building seems to only have 7 stories besides the underground mall.

photoLith Jan 3, 2018 5:39 PM

Who cares? Its gone.

Zerton Jan 5, 2018 6:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith (Post 8035020)
Who cares?

Maybe people who are interested in architecture history?

JManc Jan 5, 2018 6:11 PM

The Sears Tower (I refuse to call it anything else) is described as having 110 floors but I think it really has 108.

RC14 Jan 5, 2018 6:47 PM

^
I have been wondering about that but have been too embarrassed to ask. I grew up believing the Sears tower had 110 stories however most sources I find say 108.
The Willis Tower's website claims 110 stories.

spidey7312 Jan 5, 2018 8:55 PM

The 2 extra floors are in the elevator box, so they usually aren't included in Sears Tower's floor count.

OptimumPx Jan 22, 2018 1:59 PM

6 World Trade Center had 8 total floors, starting at the street level.

The problem is that the actual visible building has only 7 visible floors starting at the Plaza Level, but there is an additional lower level on the Concourse Level. While this section is at the same level as the Mall at the World Trade Center, it isn't actually connected to the mall in any way, and instead originally had a direct entrance/exit on Vesey St., as can be seen in these images:
https://i.imgur.com/zvsffRO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Pc2DNH4.jpg
You can see the seven upper floors, and the lower street level doors of 6 WTC.

JManc Jan 22, 2018 6:18 PM

The original 4, 5 and 6 WTC were ugly buildings and felt like afterthoughts for the rest of the complex.

WTC Twin Towers Mar 28, 2018 8:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptimumPx (Post 8055884)
6 World Trade Center had 8 total floors, starting at the street level.

The problem is that the actual visible building has only 7 visible floors starting at the Plaza Level, but there is an additional lower level on the Concourse Level. While this section is at the same level as the Mall at the World Trade Center, it isn't actually connected to the mall in any way, and instead originally had a direct entrance/exit on Vesey St., as can be seen in these images:
https://i.imgur.com/zvsffRO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Pc2DNH4.jpg
You can see the seven upper floors, and the lower street level doors of 6 WTC.

Ok, but I still don't understand why that floor on the concourse level counts as a story for that building, while the other buildings in the original complex with floors on the concourse level don't count as a story.

Here's a link to a Wikipedia page that shows the tenants for the North Tower (building 1): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...d_Trade_Center

The page doesn't count the concourse level (which is on street level and is below the plaza level and below the North Tower's floors) as a floor. But if it was counted as a floor, wouldn't that actually make the Twin Towers both 111 stories tall instead of 110 stories?

Also here's a link to a Wikipedia page that shows the tenants for the original 5 WTC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_World_Trade_Center

The page says that the building has 9 stories but doesn't include the concourse level (which is below the floors). But wouldn't 5 WTC actually be 10 stories tall because of the concourse level?

Also here's a link to a Emporis page about 3 WTC (the Marriot Hotel): https://www.emporis.com/buildings/11...rk-city-ny-usa

Most sources say that 3 WTC had 22 stories, but Emporis says that 3 WTC had 22 stories from plaza level and had 2 more stories on the concourse level. So according to Emporis, 3 WTC actually had 24 stories.

So why does a floor on the concourse level for 6 WTC count as a story for that building, but not for the other buildings of the original complex?

JManc Mar 28, 2018 1:37 PM

Floors, below ground floor typically don't count. If I recall, the WTC towers had a huge sunken pit in which to access elevators. The ground/first floor ringed around the open area. If 6WTC had it's concourse level at street level then it would be counted as a floor.

WTC Twin Towers Mar 30, 2018 5:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8135561)
Floors, below ground floor typically don't count. If I recall, the WTC towers had a huge sunken pit in which to access elevators. The ground/first floor ringed around the open area. If 6WTC had it's concourse level at street level then it would be counted as a floor.

I thought the whole concourse level was on the same level as the street level. The concourse level is extremely confusing.

OptimumPx Mar 30, 2018 2:11 PM

See, the issue is the Concourse Level was on the same level as the street on the north, south and west sides of the complex.

all of the buildings shared had a floor that was the same level as the concourse, but the concourse wasn't entirely part of them, they each had at least a lobby section on that level was wasn't part of the concourse, even if they were at the same elevation.

1, 2, 4, and 5 all had lobbies that opened into the concourse, but were not part of the concourse. 3 and 6 had floors at the same level as the concourse, but didn't connect to the concourse.

To give you a better idea of the floor count of 4, 5 and 6 WTC from the lobby levels at the street to the top floor I took some pictures of my WTC model and labeled them. Hope this helps you.

4 WTC, 9 floors
https://i.imgur.com/N2blrws.jpg

5 WTC, 9 floors
https://i.imgur.com/GipaM5l.jpg

6 WTC, 8 floors
https://i.imgur.com/Ona2HBP.jpg

JManc Mar 30, 2018 5:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTC Twin Towers (Post 8137894)
I thought the whole concourse level was on the same level as the street level. The concourse level is extremely confusing.

Very.

I think it was from certain entrances. The ground sloped I think or designed that way..like Empire Center in Albany. I was there 30 years ago and was little so don't remember that much but remember walking through door (of 2WTC) and then downstairs to access elevator to go to top. I do remember seeing entrances on that level as well and that's where I though the concourse was.

WTC Twin Towers Mar 31, 2018 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OptimumPx (Post 8138061)
See, the issue is the Concourse Level was on the same level as the street on the north, south and west sides of the complex.

all of the buildings shared had a floor that was the same level as the concourse, but the concourse wasn't entirely part of them, they each had at least a lobby section on that level was wasn't part of the concourse, even if they were at the same elevation.

1, 2, 4, and 5 all had lobbies that opened into the concourse, but were not part of the concourse. 3 and 6 had floors at the same level as the concourse, but didn't connect to the concourse.

To give you a better idea of the floor count of 4, 5 and 6 WTC from the lobby levels at the street to the top floor I took some pictures of my WTC model and labeled them. Hope this helps you.

4 WTC, 9 floors
https://i.imgur.com/N2blrws.jpg

5 WTC, 9 floors
https://i.imgur.com/GipaM5l.jpg

6 WTC, 8 floors
https://i.imgur.com/Ona2HBP.jpg

So the mall was divided into different areas of the original World Trade Center complex? Like 2 areas of the mall were on both the first floors of 4 and 5 WTC and the rest of the mall was under the plaza (which was the concourse area)?


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