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Old Posted Jan 23, 2012, 2:32 AM
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Jonboy1983 Jonboy1983 is offline
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Location: The absolute western-most point of the Philadelphia urbanized area. :)
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Originally Posted by Evergrey View Post
Thanks for agreeing.
Originally Posted by Gilamonster View Post
Since I don't agree with your opinions, apparently I "have a lack of understanding on the issue". Great point. I remember reading a few clueless and pointless messages from you on this forum before, but I see you are trying to outdo yourself. Yes people are being alarmist. My point is pretty much already proven everyday. Pittsburgh, the city proper and MSA, continues to do fine(actually much more than fine on many national indicators,especially economic ones) despite continued transit cuts. Reread above posts, although it probably won't help. I'll help you out some more. In your exact words, "An efficient public transit system is a very important key to producing a vibrant and successful urban core at the center of a metropolitan region anywhere -- and in the fractured mess that is the Pittsburgh region, especially" I guess by your logic(or lack thereof) pretty much any city west of the Mississippi that has or has had a "successful urban core" has managed to somehow pull it off without the critical factor of a "efficient public transit system". I'll give you Portland and maybe Seattle, but again like Pittsburgh, those cities have a lot of other things going for them. I guess there is a lot of dumb luck going around....or wait......could it be.......maybe that factor is not quite that important.
I of course realize that this will be the biggest round of cuts but the most recent ones were pretty deep as well. Also if you look at all of the previous cuts combined since the heyday of bus and trolley service(my best guess is somewhere around the early to mid 70's) the summation of those individual scale backs are much larger than what is to come. Again, show me where the overall problem lies. Facts please, not opinion. I think your problem is you really like public transportation and really, really want it to have a significant presence here and because of that, like many others want to prove how "This is a problem with far-reaching consequences". Of course there will be some hardships on a personal level, especially for some elderly and poor people and I am not immune to that but from a macro level, I still say not a big deal.
Let's not forget there still will be public transportation and it will be the money routes that PAT keeps ; the busiest ones. I think this debate may be moot anyways. There has already been a huge outcry from the public and I think it will only get louder and I suspect something will get pulled off to give PAT some money if not all that they need/want. If not, and if the demand is truly there, then a private company could get into the mix.
Anyways, I can't wait to see the response to this post from the fact haters and chicken littles.........
I'm not necessarily saying that all economic activity will come to a halt, and I don't consider myself to be an "alarmist," of the sort either. BrianTH, I think, made a rather valid point:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
PAT has never before cut service to the degree it would be cutting this fall if its state funding isn't restored. That is because of the sheer magnitude of the funding cut this time, plus the fact that each round of cuts most go deeper dollar for dollar as the least efficient routes are eliminated in prior rounds of cuts.

Of course the Pittsburgh Metro won't stop functioning entirely. It will "just" experience slower growth and lower prosperity in future years because of increased transportation costs (in both time and money) to get to its top employment centers, and it will also experience more concentrated poverty and related social problems, and lower air quality and have higher medical costs, and so on.


By the way, in recent years PAT's management has done a lot to trim its labor costs and improve its operating efficiency. More can and should be done, but ironically the more efficient PAT becomes, the more service must be cut as a result of state funding cuts. And unfortunately, current state law prevents PAT from doing anything about its legacy costs.
The entire region will grow and continue to grow, both in terms of population as well as economic activity, but having adequate transit service can only accelerate said growth. Before they opened the LRT line from Phoenix to Tempe, it had a profound effect on growth and development -- while it was under construction (I read a research article about this.). It was attracting a particular demographic and spurring higher-density growth within close proximity (0.25 miles) of the line. I'm sure the same thing can be said about Mt. Lebanon, Upper St. Clair, Bethel Park, etc when the T opened 26 years ago. Granted, I believe PCC trolley service existed beforehand, but still, it's an improvement of existing service, so i'm sure growth was impacted somehow because of it...

To add to Gilamonster's post, yes, I understand that transit isn't the only thing that impacts growth. It's other forms of transportation as well as other existing infrastructure and/or planned infrastructure as outlined in the various ordinances. Again, that comes down to the local governments to dictate. It's not just limited to SW PA either about how fragmented and out of touch our municipalities are with each other. Out here in Chester County, we have a road that is a bottleneck (2 lanes, down to one, then back to 2 as you pass through a township because of its classification of the road. The municipality has no interest in updating that code either.)
Originally Posted by Urbana View Post
PNC has some new renderings up on their site. Lookin' Good!
That is going to be a very sharp-looking building. I can't wait for construction to get underway and to see this thing pierce the sky over the Golden Triangle!
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