[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by biguc

Ah, Simplicity. Always the optimist.

I'm not arguing that we're all suddenly enlightened--that's patently untrue. But people are taking this stuff more and more seriously, and after the (totally unsurprising) Jian Ghomeshi revelations I feel as though we've reached a tipping point where the kind of awareness that will eventually lead to enlightenment is eminent, if not mainstream.

I'm not even trying to argue that a culture shift is entirely the reason for the decline of clubbing--the fact that there's effectively no such thing as pop music any more is probably as much or more to blame--but to the points you make, we're talking about what 18-20 year olds do here. That most 50 year old men are still sexist pigs isn't reflective of what younger people are like. And while I want to be clear that the scenario in many restaurants is anything but empowering to women, at least the women are doing that to make a buck, not just having immature hardons thrust towards them. There is a difference there, even if it's a hollow one and anything but a triumph for feminism.


This is where Riverman can chime in that these restaurants exist because the market dictates it and that's all there is or ever will be to say on the subject.


Anyway, this is a good talk and a nice diversion from what we usually all argue about. And I like the irony of a conversation about sexism breaking out on male dominated board dedicated to discussing phallic objects.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't purport to be an expert in the sociological trends regarding feminism or really anything else for that matter.

I just see a lot of outrage these days. That's mainly what I witness because I don't party like I once did; the bar scene is a bit of a relic to me. But I see the patio at Whiskey Dix and the inside of the Shark Club every now and then after a Jets game. And occasionally I get dragged to an Earls or Moxies for a business lunch, so I am at least witnessing more macro trends. Based on those experiences, I think you're probably right about some quasi-empowerment of women, but it isn't for anything we'd be proud of. I mean, whether you're stripping at Teasers or playing just coy enough with your dress at Earls and incidentally bringing some food, the transaction is the same. It has the same intent and it has the same result. I remember when Earls started with their thing 15 years ago and people were livid. Shit, Lindor Reynolds wrote a take-down piece in the Free Press about their archaic morality and its damaging effects on the feminism. Now, that shit is mainstream. Nobody is even fazed by chicks dressed like escorts bringing you a chicken caesar wrap, anymore.

It's always the law of unintended consequences. If you push back too hard against something as engrained as white male privilege - if that's what they're calling it these days - you'll swing that pendulum too far back the other way. And I think that's what we're seeing now. The outrage about everything is effecting change to anything. There's lots of surface level compliance to the outrage, but we're not actually changing opinions. And that's why I'm just not that hopeful. A message can be good - and certainly one of equality is just that - but when it comes to delivering that message to youth, they need to see a message that makes sense. Telling a horny 20 year old guy that his engrained privilege is wrong is only credible when the 20 year chick isn't dressed like a prostitute and trading flirtation for money. And that's not speaking towards his privilege - obviously he has none. But young people aren't terribly good with nuance. The system needs to be balanced in a way that respects both parties. Otherwise, you're not changing minds. You're just driving that disrespect underground where it manifests in basements at after-parties at 3:00 when everybody is loaded and nobody is exercising any discretion...