Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff's two cents
Sorry, you're still not selling me on this "working class" stuff. If they can afford to drive and insist on doing so when there's perfectly fine transit out there, that's their decision. These people you describe make a lot more money than I do, and I resent having to subsidize a lifestyle characterized by such wasteful extravagance.
If your definition of "vibrant" is having an excess of road space, Brentwood has that in spades. So does Whalley.
Nobody's suggesting any of these things. You might consider a career in opposition politics with your apparent love of hyperbole.
I think you're onto something here. Indeed, if there's one thing suburbs are known for, it's their lack of road space.
Mr.x, the Toronto example doesn't serve your purposes all that well. The Gardiner Expressway has proven to be an enormous headache for that city in trying to revitalize their extremely lackluster waterfront. Toronto is a classic example of what expressways do to a city; Seattle would be another good one.
Did any of you bother reading lightrail's link? Here it is again in case you forgot: http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009...p-save-a-city/
Although Vancouver is perfectly able to go it's own way with urban planning (it's proven rather more capable than other cities in this regard), if it were to take any cues from other cities, I would rather they emulate Seoul or San Francisco than Toronto or Seattle. My hunch is that most Torontonians would agree.
Again, I advocate tolling non-commercial and -industrial vehicles on the viaducts as an intermediate measure to see how badly these things are actually needed. Worst case scenario? This downtrodden "working class" will simply fork out the extra cash instead of taking transit, and the city can put the revenue towards something else worthwhile that actually beautifies the city. |
It really doesn't take that much money to own and operate a car. I'm still in school, live on my own, and can easily do so without parental subsidy. The amount of use I get out isn't particularly high, but operating costs over the coarse of a year are in line with what some people I know spend on restaurants and alcohol.
Similarly motorcycles and scooters aren't such a ridiculous item far out of reach of the downtrodden proletariat. A new cheap motorcycle can be had for under $5K, and
insured and fueled for LESS than the cost of monthly bus pass.
Wasteful extravagance is bit of an overstatement.
Now here's a wasteful extravagance... what kind of a toll would you charge people to go 3 blocks? $.50 ? Why spend a few million dollars on tolling infrastructure that you know will never actually break even financially? Could it be a lack of financial realism holding is your personal economic status back?
The idea of the viaduct really hurting the vitality of that area just seems kind of odd to me. It's not like Concorde is hesitant to state that it's developing that area as well. It's right up there on the gentrification calendar. It's more of an eventuality that the viaduct is going to be encapsulated by new development as Concord continues to build up its land. I honestly like the idea of them having to change their cookie cutter to fit in the viaduct. It's going to make an interesting neigbourhood.