[wburg]

Originally Posted by BrianSac

A true urban neighborhood has both livability AND attracts visitors.

Didn't say it couldn't. In fact, I gave several examples. In all of those examples, the visitors are not just left to run hither and yon--they are managed. This makes the experience better for the visitor and the resident, even if the visitor gripes about paying for parking sometimes. They'll gripe about paying for parking the next time they visit too, and the time after that, and the time after that...

Arenas can and do host "the circus" but they are much more than that and you know it.

I can’t help but think you have issue with the Arena mostly because it may infringe on your historical sensibilities regarding the railyards.

Um, nope. It has nothing to do with "historical sensibilities" and a lot to do with a site that is too small and poorly placed, but selected because the city already owned it. Personally, if I was asked to pick a site for an arena, I'd put it on the north end of the Railyards lot, where the Measure Q/R site was going to be. It still has transit proximity, visibility, and central location, but has more than enough room (a 10 acre parcel zoned for recreational use in the EIR) and isn't jammed in between the train station and the tracks.

You have never once acknowledged the value of arenas (and ballparks): How can you ignore NY’s madison sq garden, SF’s at&t ballpark and dozen other arenas and ballparks and what they bring to a region,

.......and how they mix livability with outside visitors.

Typically a lot of headaches, and not a lot of fiscal benefit. Generally the neighborhood comes first, THEN the arena.

You forgot to add Downtown LA around Staples center in your descriptions of urban dwellers akin to Your SoMA, Chicago, and West Hollywood descriptions.... again mixing urban dwellers with outside visitors.

Again, housing came first. Downtown Los Angeles' revitalization had more to do with simplifying regulations that allowed property owners to convert vacant office buildings to condos without having to add more parking, density bonuses, etcetera--this tripled Downtown LA's population from 15,000 to 45,000 in eight years, and attracted new development alongside the existing urban fabric. Staples Center didn't have all that much to do with it. And downtown Los Angeles is still far from the kind of shape, in terms of livability, that those other neighborhoods are in--Pershing Square on a Sunday afternoon isn't any more lively than Cesar Chavez Plaza. But Los Angeles is responding by focusing their energy on rebuilding downtown LA via infill and reuse, not rezoning Melrose Avenue for high-rises.