Broadway Rapid Transit Corridor Discussion | Proposed

officedweller · #1 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 2:10 AM**

The initiation of the planning study for the Broadway West segment of the Millennium Line goes before the Translink Board on June 27th. Some good background info for you in the report.
The study will be conducted in 3 phases and will end in late 2009.

Good to see that UBC is considered the terminus point for the study purposes.

http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/boa..._27_07/4.7.pdf

Canadian Mind · #2 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 2:23 AM**

I would hope the plan has skytrain go all the way to UBC, and not have it stop short and have a bus for the remaining few miles.

also, heading eastbound on the north-arm of millennium line, is it possible to ride a train all the way to Surrey?, or must one get a transfer at the expo line to continue heading eastbound?

officedweller · #3 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 2:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

also, heading eastbound on the north-arm of millennium line, is it possible to ride a train all the way to Surrey?, or must one get a transfer at the expo line to continue heading eastbound?

The wye east of Columbia doesn't allow a through train from Sapperton to Scott Road.

mr.x · #4 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 2:28 AM**

^ thx for the link. great to see that SkyTrain and to an lesser extent LRT is being favoured.....and thank god there's no mention of rapid bus.

hopefully, we'll see the M extended all the way to UBC....it'll be expensive, but it has to be done.

one question, was the Canada Line Broadway-City Hall Station designed for a Millennium Line Station on 10th and Cambie?

officedweller · #5 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 2:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.x2

one question, was the Canada Line Broadway-City Hall Station designed for a Millennium Line Station on 10th and Cambie?

Yes, I think so. The cut-out panel on the west side of the mezzanine is oriented closer to 10th Ave. than to Broadway.

mr.x · #6 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 2:48 AM**

one more question, if the Evergreen Line were SkyTrain, how exactly would the line be linked with the M-Line? i doubt that they would build a flyover as they did for the Canada Line at Bridgeport or the Columbia Station underpass?

thx office.

edit: where would the additional cars as a result of Broadway West go? Edmonds will be full, with expansion, when the new batch of 34 arrives in 2009. if they built the Evergreen Line as SkyTrain, problems would be solved with a second SkyTrain OMC at Falcon - the proposed location of the LRT OMC.

officedweller · #7 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 2:58 AM**

Switches were installed east of Lougheed station for the wye (at considerable cost in anticipation of the extension, and so as to cause less disruption during construction). There would be a level crossing as far as we (people on the forum) can determine. The actual train movements remain a mystery (i.e. to minimize up and down movements for transfers and to avoid splitting common destination trains across two separated platforms), but apparently the PMC trains (and maybe Expo/Columbia trains) were to be through-routed to Commercial.

You can see the stubs for the tracks in this 2002 Global Air Photo. The white concrete part is the roughed-in PMC Line platform.

Model Shop pics (top of the right photo you can see where the tracks extend from the stubs):

You can see the unfinished platform and the rising guideway stub in this pic from Merrick Architecture's website:

Pics by Adam Benjamin:

mr.x · #8 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 3:05 AM**

^ wow, amazing. thx.

i think i get it now but correct me if i'm wrong. The existing Lougheed westbound platform would also be the PMC westbound platform while the currently unused platform would be the PMC's eastbound platform.

awesome.

evergreenline.wordpress.com coming july 2007!

officedweller · #9 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 3:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.x2

i think i get it now but correct me if i'm wrong. The existing Lougheed westbound platform would also be the PMC westbound platform while the currently unused platform would be the PMC's eastbound platform.

Possibly- but not quite. That would mean that westbound PMC trains would travel on the lefthand side track in the station - which isn't North American convention (rules of the road apply).
This is where you get a headache.

Firstly, note the switch right at the east end of the Lougheed platform - shown at the bottom edge of the last Adam Benjamin pic.
That switch could be used to short-turn PMC trains so all PMC passengers only load on and off from the third platform - but then everyone has to go up and down escalators to transfer.
My guess is that the third platform could be used for BOTH westbound M-Line trains AND westbound PMC trains, while the existing centre platform would be used for eastbound M-Line trains on the south side and eastbound PMC trains on the north side. That would easily allow passengers to transfer to the PMC from an M-Line train. However, that may place trains is head-to-head situations at the west end of the station.

i.e. the dilemma is: you can't have westbound M-Line trains remaining on the north side of the centre platform AND westbound PMC trains on the third platform - that would split the frequency between two separate platforms and passengers would get frustrated as to which platform to go to to catch the next train.

officedweller · #10 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 3:33 AM**

As an additional aside, the original T-Line concept had the Lougheed Station oriented north-south (and with only 2 platforms, rather than 3 platforms) so that the PMC Line trains were through-routed to either the M-Line (for a one transfer Vancouver trip) or to Columbia (for a one transfer trip to Surrey) (i.e. the wye opened to the south, not to the east). The design was changed as some point.

See the report here which shows the north-south Lougheed Station and actual train movements:

http://www.eao.gov.bc.ca/epic/output...ed4615db00.pdf

Jared · #11 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 3:40 AM**

Glad to see that they're talking about all the way to UBC this time, not just to Granville/Arbutus area.

officedweller · #12 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 4:28 AM**

I think the suggestion of having the M-Line/Canada Line ransfer at 2nd Ave. is a non-starter. I think it would mean an elevated guideway (cheaper though) right through SE False Creek and it would miss the centre of Mount Pleasant. It would also mean workers near Broadway & Cambie (City Hall, Crossroads, etc.) would have to transfer to the Canada Line for one stop. Conceivably, however, the line could divert southwards to allow a station at Oak & 10th/Broadway.

officedweller · #13 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 4:38 AM**

Finally found the plan with the knock-out panel for Broadway City Hall:

mr.x · #14 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 4:45 AM**

^ would be interesting to see a 50 metre platform crowded. anyhow, enough with my platform obsession.

i hate how we seem to be short cutting everything lately....the line needs to be along 10th Avenue.

eduardo88 · #15 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 5:14 AM**

I'm still confused on this, if they did a PMC extention to the M-Line and the Broadway extention, how exactly would trains be running? Ok the expo line wouldnt change, but how would the the new M-line look? Diagram would be nice

mr.x · #16 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 5:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by eduardo88

I'm still confused on this, if they did a PMC extention to the M-Line and the Broadway extention, how exactly would trains be running? Ok the expo line wouldnt change, but how would the the new M-line look? Diagram would be nice

The frequencies are only examples.

Expo Line:
- Waterfront to Columbia to VCC to UBC (every 3 minutes)
- Waterfront to Columbia to King George (every 3 minutes)
- combined frequency from Waterfront to Columbia: 90 seconds

Milennium Line
- Waterfront to Columbia to VCC to UBC (every 3 minutes)
- UBC to VCC to Lougheed to Coquitlam (every 3 minutes)
- combined frequency from UBC to Lougheed: 90 seconds

PMC Line
- UBC to VCC to Lougheed to Coquitlam (every 3 minutes)

deasine · #17 Posted: **Jun 23, 2007, 7:16 AM**

Why did they have to make the Lougheed Station interchange so confusing.... I understand how it works (especially after the explaining from officedweller and the Provincial gov't diagrams) but why couldn't they just make something similar to the Canada Line split (do an under version instead of over).

Anyway, it is nice to see TransLink is actually looking at this matter now. Also interesting that they seem to have recognize the StreetCar system more now...

Hot Rod · #18 Posted: **Jun 24, 2007, 1:11 PM**

too bad they can't Fast Track this,

but it is a great start.

eduardo88 · #19 Posted: **Jun 24, 2007, 2:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

too bad they can't Fast Track this,

but it is a great start.

agreed. how much more can they study this? i wish they could just skip to the second phase ie. its already narrowed down to only two options: skytrain vs LRT, obviously skytrain is the right choice here (speed, capacity, existing system compatibility, no transfer), they should start on an alignment/cost study and public consultation. i hate all this nonsensical bureaucracy!

would be great if all the planning could be done by early 2009 and construction finishing up mid 2011....too bad that wont be happening

crazyjoeda · #20 Posted: **Jun 25, 2007, 5:45 AM**

they should build it in stages, like first to Cambie, then down to someplace like Arbutus, and then to UBC. That way it will be less of an upfront finacial commitment and will have a better chance of being approved.