Why don't more New Yorkers move to Philadelphia?

[Larry King]

It seems that New York is too expensive for most normal people these days.

You either end up paying an outrageous rent or live in a rough out of the way neighborhood... Or quite often both

In Philadelphia you can live in the best part of town for the price of living in Canarsie. And the best part of Philly is definetly a pleasant urban experience

With telecommuting so popular these days...

I don't understand why more people don't move to Philly and then just go back to manhattan once or twice a week. Totally manageable and low stress lifestyle

Is it because most people in a position to work from home are also in a position to afford ny prices?

Do you see this as a major demographic force in the two cities in the future?

[Crawford]

Odd question.

There are tons of New Yorkers in Philadelphia. Where do you think all those Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Russians and Chinese come from?

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Odd question.

There are tons of New Yorkers in Philadelphia. Where do you think all those Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Russians and Chinese come from?

Also an odd question.

A: Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Russia & China.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Also an odd question.

A: Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Russia & China.

I'd wager that isn't the case, and a very high proportion of recently arrived Philadelphians with those countries-of-origin have their roots in the Five Boroughs. NYC tends to be more of a gateway city, and Philly tends to be more of a receiving city.

There are obvious reasons why NYC has advantages as an entry point, and why Philly has advantages for immigrants looking to get their proverbial "piece of the pie".

The Chinese in NE Philly tend to be from Brooklyn (Sunset Park and Bensonhurst), where the Chinese real estate agency shopfronts are plastered with cheap homes in NE Philly. Similarly, the Russians in Rhawnhurst, Philly, tend to be from Brooklyn, where a number of Brooklyn businesses (such as Net Cost market) established beacheads in this affordable alternative.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Allentown, PA is closer by a few kms to NYC than is Philly, if R/E costs are the main factor (which I think, is not the case)

Allentown is 1.5 hours from Manhattan by car; Philly ~60 min by fast train.

Originally Posted by 10023

Why don't more Washingtonians move to Baltimore?

More do than you'd think. It's just that people generally don't make a big deal out of it. (Same as NY and Philly--the people who make a big deal out of it tend to be Philly boosters more than anything else).

Originally Posted by Crawford

I'd wager that isn't the case, and a very high proportion of recently arrived Philadelphians with those countries-of-origin have their roots in the Five Boroughs. NYC tends to be more of a gateway city, and Philly tends to be more of a receiving city.

There are obvious reasons why NYC has advantages as an entry point, and why Philly has advantages for immigrants looking to get their proverbial "piece of the pie".

The Chinese in NE Philly tend to be from Brooklyn (Sunset Park and Bensonhurst), where the Chinese real estate agency shopfronts are plastered with cheap homes in NE Philly. Similarly, the Russians in Rhawnhurst, Philly, tend to be from Brooklyn, where a number of Brooklyn businesses (such as Net Cost market) established beacheads in this affordable alternative.

I have deep connections in the Chinese community. Chinese in Philly tend to emigrate directly from China, often through our university system (which maintains ties to Chinese schools--my alma mater has an exchange program with Tsinghua University, for example). Absentee Chinese landlords have become a problem in the NE (especially in Mayfair and Tacony), which implies New York Chinese are buying NE properties to rent, not to live in. Rhawnhurst isn't exactly known for its Russians--Somerton is. A lot of Mexicans come from a certain part of Mexico; Philly's Latinos are mainly, however, Puerto Ricans. So, while some may be NY transplants, Philly does hold its own on the immigrant front. Much more than you'd think.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Allentown is 1.5 hours from Manhattan by car; Philly ~60 min by fast train.

There is no train between Allentown and Philly, or between Allentown and NYC.

Commuters take buses from that part of the area; there are a ton of private bus lines.

[miketoronto]

At the end of the day, a lot of jobs require more face to face interaction than people think.
And you still are in a different city no matter what. The two cities may seem close, but its still a good hour and a half to two hours between the two places.
And as nice as Philly is, its still not NYC .

[10023]

"Telecommuting" is still a fantasy for 98% of jobs, just like the "paperless office". Sure people work remotely on weekends, or occasionally on a summer Friday, but almost no one can get away with only coming into the the office a couple times a week. Not even, or perhaps least of all, the most senior executives at a company (who can also probably afford Manhattan).

[Private Dick]

Because Philadelphia (while a great city) is not New York.

[antinimby]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Because Philadelphia (while a great city) is not New York.

I don't think the differences will matter much to your average immigrant.

[novawolverine]

Originally Posted by antinimby

I don't think the differences will matter much to your average immigrant.

Are immigrants telecommuting much, which is what the OP is talking about. Plenty of immigrants already do commute from long distances to their jobs.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by novawolverine

Are immigrants telecommuting much, which is what the OP is talking about. Plenty of immigrants already do commute from long distances to their jobs.

I think most immigrants are in more traditional businesses, and telecommuting isn't really a major factor in locational decisions.

I think a more typical example would be a Dominican family, in, say, the West Bronx. They want to open a bodega, but prices for well-located retail are sky-high in the boroughs, and competition is intense.

So they move to Philly and open the same bodega, with much lower rent and much less competition.

There are plenty of academic papers that deal with the dispersion of immigrant communities from gateway communities. That's how you have random Puerto Rican neighborhoods in the Poconos or wherever.

[MolsonExport]

Allentown, PA is closer by a few kms to NYC than is Philly, if R/E costs are the main factor (which I think, is not the case)

[Private Dick]

^ That's precisely the reason Allentown and the Lehigh Valley region has grown significantly in population over the past 10 years. Allentown greatly overtook Erie as the state's 3rd largest city in the 2010 census specifically because of its low real estate costs in close proximity to NY/NJ. It is the fastest growing city in PA, just because of the influx of people from the NYC area.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by Larry King

It seems that New York is too expensive for most normal people these days.

You either end up paying an outrageous rent or live in a rough out of the way neighborhood... Or quite often both

In Philadelphia you can live in the best part of town for the price of living in Canarsie. And the best part of Philly is definetly a pleasant urban experience

With telecommuting so popular these days...

I don't understand why more people don't move to Philly and then just go back to manhattan once or twice a week. Totally manageable and low stress lifestyle

Is it because most people in a position to work from home are also in a position to afford ny prices?

Do you see this as a major demographic force in the two cities in the future?

It is very hard to find a job in Philadelphia if you do not have an already established network of people that can help you out. Then if you are a top level job candidate not only are there more jobs available in NYC but the pay is also much better most of the time.

[Rail Claimore]

I think growth in Philly and the northern suburbs will start accelerating this decade as a result of New Yorkers wanting a cheaper, but still-close, locale.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by Rail Claimore

I think growth in Philly and the northern suburbs will start accelerating this decade as a result of New Yorkers wanting a cheaper, but still-close, locale.

It already happened in the northern suburbs and to such a level that Mercer County now has more people commuting to NYC as opposed to Philly even though it is only 15 minutes from the northern part of Philly to Mercer County.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by antinimby

I don't think the differences will matter much to your average immigrant.

The discussion was not specifically about immigrants, average or otherwise.

There are millions of non immigrants who would find Philadelphia a more affordable option than New York. I believe that was the intent of the OP's topic initially, before it as clouded by people talking about immigrants.

The fact is, NYC is FAR more of a destination city for people all over the US than Philadelphia is. As I (and miketoronto) said originally, Philadelphia is not New York.

[Westsidelife]

Trading Greenwich Village for Rittenhouse Square ain't so bad.

[CentralGrad258]

This question will lead nowhere good. Most people responding will be clueless and bring their own prejudices and subjective opinions, instead of local knowledge to the equation. New York and Philly are two different cities. People who want to live in Philly, live in Philly. Those who want to live in New York, live in New York. They all have their individual reasons.

Let me give an example of someone who doesn't have a clue of what they're talking about:

Originally Posted by Crawford

Similarly, the Russians in Rhawnhurst, Philly, tend to be from Brooklyn, where a number of Brooklyn businesses (such as Net Cost market) established beacheads in this affordable alternative.

Now my family came to Philly in the early 1990s from Kiev, when there was already a sizable Soviet immigrant community in the Somerton section of the city. In my 20 years of being in and around the community I know of exactly 1 Russian person who moved to Philly from New York (due to marriage) and that is it. Net Cost is indeed a Brooklyn based chain, but it came along pretty late in the game and is one of many businesses servicing the community.

I obviously can't speak as confidently about the other immigrant communities in and around the Philly metro. I just want to highlight the fact that most posters that will respond to the question don't really have much of a clue on this topic unless it's something they're researched extensively or actually belong to one of the groups in question.