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View Poll Results: Which border has the stronger linkage between its cities on two sides?
On average, the Mexican-US border cities. 27 49.09%
On average, the Canadian-US border cities. 16 29.09%
On average, they are equally strong, or weak. 12 21.82%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 3:50 PM
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Stronger ties -- Mexican-US border cities or Canadian-US border cities?

Cross border cities like San Diego-Tijuana, and El Paso-Ciudad Juarez, on the southern border, or say, Detroit-Windsor and Buffalo-Niagara Falls-Toronto, or Metro Vancouver down to Seattle?

Detroit-Windsor is still the largest agglomeration I think and the fact that Anglo-Canada and the US shares a language makes the case for a stronger tie there, but then again, there may be a case for the Mexican border communities as immigration from Mexico has created ethnic communities where the Mexican-American population is larger than Canadians living in the US in absolute number.

Canada is a larger trading partner of the US than Mexico, but not by that much (China is a larger trading partner to the US than both).

From the point of view of Canada, the US is the largest trading partner by far, than any other country.
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Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 3:52 PM
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Border towns down on the Texas-Mexico border are pretty unique culturally. I just don't think that's the case along the Canadian border.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Border towns down on the Texas-Mexico border are pretty unique culturally. I just don't think that's the case along the Canadian border.
Agreed. A lot of the time you have family living on both sides of the border of the US and Mexico so there's a lot of cohesion. Never got that impression with US/Canadian border cities..other than Niagara Falls and due to tourism. Windsor and Detroit seem worlds apart and Buffalo doesn't really have a urban neighbor on the Canadian side. There are really small towns that straddle the VT/PQ border that obviously have a connection.
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  #4  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
There are really small towns that straddle the VT/PQ border that obviously have a connection.
places like Derby Line, VT, where the US-canadian border literally runs directly through the town library have always intrigued me.

some people even have their own private houses bisected by the international border.

how does such a wacky situation work? how can the border possibly be secured when it runs right through a town like that?
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  #5  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 4:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
places like Derby Line, VT, where the US-canadian border literally runs directly through the town library have always intrigued me.

some people even have their own private houses bisected by the international border.

how does such a wacky situation work? how can the border possibly be secured when it runs right through a town like that?
It wasn't secured. There were a few open streets with signs informing you you were crossing the border. After 9/11 Dubya added gates to them so now you have to pass through the village's main street, where there's a customs booth. The residents can come and go, of course, but there's more border patrol around nowadays.

There are houses in between the customs in other places, as well, such as Canaan VT (there's one building straddling the border) and Beecher Falls VT (where the house between the two customs is fully in Quebec though).

Stanstead is the best example though, with the Haskell Opera bisected, as well as a couple residential buildings on the main street*, plus Canusa Street in Beebe.

edit: actually, looking at Google sat view, there are many more buildings than I recalled that are cut by the border. I'm there regularly, but I rarely venture off my Main Street route (crossing the border in the old village as it's quicker, then going back to the freeway after that).
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  #6  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2018, 1:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
It wasn't secured. There were a few open streets with signs informing you you were crossing the border. After 9/11 Dubya added gates to them so now you have to pass through the village's main street, where there's a customs booth. The residents can come and go, of course, but there's more border patrol around nowadays.

There are houses in between the customs in other places, as well, such as Canaan VT (there's one building straddling the border) and Beecher Falls VT (where the house between the two customs is fully in Quebec though).

Stanstead is the best example though, with the Haskell Opera bisected, as well as a couple residential buildings on the main street*, plus Canusa Street in Beebe.

edit: actually, looking at Google sat view, there are many more buildings than I recalled that are cut by the border. I'm there regularly, but I rarely venture off my Main Street route (crossing the border in the old village as it's quicker, then going back to the freeway after that).
You may find this article very interesting about the border and showing houses that straddle the border.


http://www.clui.org/section/united-d...anada-border-2
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  #7  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Agreed. A lot of the time you have family living on both sides of the border of the US and Mexico so there's a lot of cohesion. Never got that impression with US/Canadian border cities..other than Niagara Falls and due to tourism. Windsor and Detroit seem worlds apart and Buffalo doesn't really have a urban neighbor on the Canadian side. There are really small towns that straddle the VT/PQ border that obviously have a connection.
I can't say that I see that Detroit and Windsor are "worlds apart" if you want to be very specific and only compare the city of Detroit to the municipality Windsor/Essex they have different demographics but if Windsor is looked at as a part of greater Detroit it fits in pretty well. But I think there is a stronger shared sense of identity in the region than on the southern border there are shared sports leagues shared economy and travel is easy an expanded drivers license will act like a passport and also if you operate a ship on the Great Lakes there isn't any law about sailing back and forth from US to Canada and vice-versa. While there is a shared Latin culture on both sides of the southern border there is a also a lot of divisiveness and disagreement on whether to tighten up the border even more. At the same time Detroit and Buffalo just had a bit of a contest for who is going to host the new major international crossing.
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  #8  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Agreed. A lot of the time you have family living on both sides of the border of the US and Mexico so there's a lot of cohesion. Never got that impression with US/Canadian border cities..
Then you have the wrong impression because there are lots of people with family on both sides.

Don't know where you come up with this "worlds apart" idea either...
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  #9  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 10:32 PM
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Then you have the wrong impression because there are lots of people with family on both sides.

Don't know where you come up with this "worlds apart" idea either...
I am from Upstate NY and lived near the Canadian border and even had relatives in both BC and Toronto...and now live in Texas so it's not like I don't know what I'm talking about. Yes, there are people with families in both US/Canada but usually scattered all over. Like mine. On the US/MX border, you are far more likely to have families literally on either side of the border; for ex. some living in Nuevo Laredo and some in Laredo. Id be curious the comparison to families in Detriot/ Windsor.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 12:51 AM
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Lol at the poll as of now.

On average, the Mexican-US border cities. 8 -------------- 33.33%
On average, the Canadian-US border cities. 8 -------------- 33.33%
On average, they are equally strong, or weak. 8 -------------- 33.33%
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  #11  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 5:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Agreed. A lot of the time you have family living on both sides of the border of the US and Mexico so there's a lot of cohesion. Never got that impression with US/Canadian border cities..other than Niagara Falls and due to tourism. Windsor and Detroit seem worlds apart and Buffalo doesn't really have a urban neighbor on the Canadian side. There are really small towns that straddle the VT/PQ border that obviously have a connection.
I think you're right. There are lots of Mexican-Americans who live in these border towns with Mexico. Family bonds aren't as strong across the US/Canada border (although they used to be). A huge number of Canadians have relatives in the US but they're in places like California, NYC, Florida, etc.

There seems to be a steady increase in the number of people from western NY who either move to Toronto or come here frequently. That's a rather recent phenomenon and largely a one way street. If Torontonians go to New York it's to NYC. Toronto isn't right on the border but the Golden Horseshoe stretches right to Niagara. Toronto is 'across' the border in that sense.
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  #12  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

There seems to be a steady increase in the number of people from western NY who either move to Toronto or come here frequently.
I didn't realize that western NY had a lot of people willing to still move to the other side of the border.

Are they there temporarily (working etc.) or are there many who want to stay long term as Canadians?
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  #13  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2018, 6:29 PM
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I didn't realize that western NY had a lot of people willing to still move to the other side of the border.

Are they there temporarily (working etc.) or are there many who want to stay long term as Canadians?
It's a little of both. It's not a huge number but it's growing. Some may come because of Trump or a desire to be Canadian but they're a small number. Most come for the same reason Canadians go to Silicon Valley, NYC, or Hollywood: opportunity. (Astonishingly there are 300,000 Canadians working in SV).

The larger Toronto gets and the more it booms, the stronger the pull becomes. They come for shopping, entertainment, see friends they've made, and to work. Some become permanent residents. Ontarians go to Buffalo for 2 reasons: cheaper flights out of the Buffalo-Niagara airport and to attend Bills games.

This speaks volumes. It's Buffalo's public television station:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Whereas in the Mexican case, some cities were already there, and when parts of Mexico were taken by the US, essentially the border came to the city rather than the city to the border?
As has been suggested, I think those large Mexican border towns sprung up because of NAFTA.
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Last edited by isaidso; Jan 3, 2018 at 6:44 PM.
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  #14  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 4:19 PM
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How can it be anything but the US-Canadian border? Until 9-11, you could just walk across the US-Canadian border. There's no language barrier either.
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Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 4:25 PM
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How can it be anything but the US-Canadian border? Until 9-11, you could just walk across the US-Canadian border. There's no language barrier either.
Until 9/11 you could do that in Texas too.

And "the border" isn't really at the actual border. You need to drive 45 mins or an hour from the border toward San Antonio before you reach a proper checkpoint. There's not a whole lot keeping one from wandering between McAllen and Reynosa, on the other hand.

There's not much of a language barrier, either. Everyone on the Texas side speaks Spanish.
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Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 9:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post

And "the border" isn't really at the actual border. You need to drive 45 mins or an hour from the border toward San Antonio before you reach a proper checkpoint. There's not a whole lot keeping one from wandering between McAllen and Reynosa, on the other hand.
What are you talking about? This is incorrect.

The Tex/Mex border is an actual border, with actual security, with a large river separating the two sides. Laredo is 150 miles south of San Antonio. You have to cross bridges to enter either country.

Laredo, TX port of entry
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  #17  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 9:38 PM
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What are you talking about? This is incorrect.

The Tex/Mex border is an actual border, with actual security, with a large river separating the two sides. Laredo is 150 miles south of San Antonio. You have to cross bridges to enter either country.

Laredo, TX port of entry
Perhaps that's the case in Laredo. My fiancée grew up in McAllen and I've been down here several times. It's a lot more integrated than you think. Most of their nannies and housekeepers lived in Mexico and commuted over, for instance.
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  #18  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 9:44 PM
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Perhaps that's the case in Laredo. My fiancée grew up in McAllen and I've been down here several times. It's a lot more integrated than you think. Most of their nannies and housekeepers lived in Mexico and commuted over, for instance.
Being integrated is much different than saying there's no border security until you hit San Antonio, which is really far away from McAllen, TX -- 240 miles apart. Sure there's lots of people that commute daily from Mex to Tex and vice versa with family on both sides as somebody else already mentioned.

You still have to go through customs at each port of entry in McAllen.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir//U.S...2!2d26.0968854
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  #19  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 4:29 PM
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both are the same. however, it feels like the mex-usa border has more ties because there are many more people living more closely along it and each side looks more different structurally. actually though if you look more carefully its kind of not that at all, because the usa-mex borderland is its own culture, known as la frontera. its not exactly mex and its not exactly usa, its got its own thing going on from food to music to everything and like for example locally laredo and nuevo laredo are just los dos laredos.
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  #20  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2018, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Cross border cities like San Diego-Tijuana, and El Paso-Ciudad Juarez, on the southern border, or say, Detroit-Windsor and Buffalo-Niagara Falls-Toronto, or Metro Vancouver down to Seattle?

Detroit-Windsor is still the largest agglomeration I think and the fact that Anglo-Canada and the US shares a language makes the case for a stronger tie there, but then again, there may be a case for the Mexican border communities as immigration from Mexico has created ethnic communities where the Mexican-American population is larger than Canadians living in the US in absolute number.

Canada is a larger trading partner of the US than Mexico, but not by that much (China is a larger trading partner to the US than both).

From the point of view of Canada, the US is the largest trading partner by far, than any other country.
The US and adjacent Mexican border cities share 2 common languages to a much greater degree than people who don't live near them realize. Very many people on each side of the border speak the language of the other side and US dollars are commonly accepted on the Mexican side (at least of Nogales, Sonora/Arizona, the one with which I am most familiar). I live about 40 miles north of the border and even in my town Spanish speakers have no trouble using their own language in any commercial establishment.
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