Rail-based Transit Discussion

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

If a LRT/Commuter line was ever implemented along the CNR line that goes to the VIA station downtown, would if ever be feasible to create a branch of that line that went to the airport? I feel like this would even help with limiting traffic downtown from commuters in the suburbs.

The CN main line out of Halifax follows the western shore of Bedford Basin and then proceeds through Waverley and Rocky Lake (oddly, following the shoreline of many lakes with fairly narrow ROWs) mostly into wooded areas beyond Waverly until it emerges back into civilization in the Enfield/Shubenacadie river area. So it would not be impossible to create a branch line from the airport to there although with the main being just a single track it would need careful management. That issue more generally strikes me as one of CN's big reservations about sharing. And of course, if there was ever an issue where the track became impassible due to a derailment, washout or whatever the entire commuter route is shut down until it is fixed.

[ScovaNotian]

I'm wondering what it would take to extend the rail line that ends at the Irving shipyards all the way to Cogswell. There is an almost continuous row of parking lots where it would need to go, and Cogswell would be a better terminus than the VIA station.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The CN main line out of Halifax follows the western shore of Bedford Basin and then proceeds through Waverley and Rocky Lake (oddly, following the shoreline of many lakes with fairly narrow ROWs) mostly into wooded areas beyond Waverly until it emerges back into civilization in the Enfield/Shubenacadie river area. So it would not be impossible to create a branch line from the airport to there although with the main being just a single track it would need careful management. That issue more generally strikes me as one of CN's big reservations about sharing. And of course, if there was ever an issue where the track became impassible due to a derailment, washout or whatever the entire commuter route is shut down until it is fixed.

It could be done. It would require dedication, commitment, visionary planning and a whole lot of money, but it could be done.

Sadly, I see little of any of the above in HRM these days. The city is being led by peons and mental midgets.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Could you not run a line roughly parallel to the new connector road from the 102 to Wellington? You could then parallel to the highway on the west side before crossing the highway just after exit 6, with a multi modal terminal where the current bus connections are at or have it run underground between bell Blvd and silver dart dr. Ending where the pedestrian overpass to the parking garage is.

[MonctonRad]

The main issue I would see is an elevation change between the current mainline running along the lakeshores, and the airport, which is located on an elevated plateau. Rail lines do not handle steep grades very well.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by ScovaNotian

I'm wondering what it would take to extend the rail line that ends at the Irving shipyards all the way to Cogswell. There is an almost continuous row of parking lots where it would need to go, and Cogswell would be a better terminus than the VIA station.

Yes, that used to exist up until not all that many years ago all the way along almost to Karlson's Wharf near the casino.

@someone123 provided an excellent look at how this looks now and then in THIS POST. You can see how far it once went and the challenges involved in reinstating it.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The main issue I would see is an elevation change between the current mainline running along the lakeshores, and the airport, which is located on an elevated plateau. Rail lines do not handle steep grades very well.

Yeah I’m not super familiar with how much of a grade difference there is. Google maps doesn’t really do a great job showing elevation. Does anybody know if there are good topographic maps of the area?

Aside from this, could there be a dedicated bus lane that went out to the airport? I also don’t know how busy the airport is, but assume that since it is quite a ways outside of the city, that a direct transit route to the airport would be popular.

[Keith P.]

Well, there is a dedicated transit line to the airport, #320. Once it gets out of the city it usually is not impeded by highway traffic. Of course since Transit operates it, there are issues with frequency and service, but it is generally ok.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by monctonrad

sadly, i see little of any of the above in hrm these days. The city is being led by peons and mental midgets.

on bikes!!!!

[Corker]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

Could you not run a line roughly parallel to the new connector road from the 102 to Wellington? You could then parallel to the highway on the west side before crossing the highway just after exit 6, with a multi modal terminal where the current bus connections are at or have it run underground between bell Blvd and silver dart dr. Ending where the pedestrian overpass to the parking garage is.

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

Yeah I’m not super familiar with how much of a grade difference there is. Google maps doesn’t really do a great job showing elevation. Does anybody know if there are good topographic maps of the area?

I'd like to see service to the Aerotech park and ideally right to the airport terminal. The connector road seems to have a wide enough right-of-way to at least get it to the overpass.
https://novascotia.ca/tran/highways/...o_2017_lrr.pdf

My office has a GIS tool and if I was reading it correctly the elevation of the rail line at Grand Lake is about 15m and at the overpass about 140m, so a rise of 125m over a straight line distance of 4.5km, or 2.7%. According to Wikipedia that is within the normal range of up to 4% for non-freight trains.

[Jor D]

I love the "rail" discussion for halifax.
the scenarios are basically these:
THE REALITY: halifax is a canadian city growing at 2% --no rail transit in the foreseeable future.
THE SURPRISE: Canada adopts passenger rail to counter air travel due to climate change emmisions restrictions. A rail industry booms in canada and therefore canadian cities also get a focus on rail transit. Halifax gets a frequent VIA train running from Moncton-Truro-Halifax twice a day. halifax also gets a simple north-south LRT line on the pennisula.
THE DREAM: included with the above situation, Halifax booms with a 5% growth rate year after year for 20 years. The new bilateral world order of the West vs the East brings in a new "cold war" where canada enhances its atlantic navy military industrial complex and Halifax becomes a booming miliatary port and manufacturer. With growth soaring, halifax along with provincial and federal money embark on a subway, north-south and east-west (under harbour) intersecting at gottingen and cogswell (where the future downtown grows due to no citidel-view restrictions.

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by ScovaNotian

I'm wondering what it would take to extend the rail line that ends at the Irving shipyards all the way to Cogswell. There is an almost continuous row of parking lots where it would need to go, and Cogswell would be a better terminus than the VIA station.

There is indeed a contiguous line of undeveloped land from the current end-of-track north of Irving, south to Cornwallis Street. I was told after the tracks came up in the mid-70s that that was by design, that the railway right-of-way was to be preserved. I have no documentary evidence to prove that, but it would explain why no one has obstructed that corridor substantially in the past fifty years.

Which isn't to say that reinstalling rail would be cheap or without physical or political obstacles, but a forward-thinking city surely would preserve that option in its long-term transportation planning.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by Corker

I'd like to see service to the Aerotech park and ideally right to the airport terminal. The connector road seems to have a wide enough right-of-way to at least get it to the overpass.
https://novascotia.ca/tran/highways/...o_2017_lrr.pdf

My office has a GIS tool and if I was reading it correctly the elevation of the rail line at Grand Lake is about 15m and at the overpass about 140m, so a rise of 125m over a straight line distance of 4.5km, or 2.7%. According to Wikipedia that is within the normal range of up to 4% for non-freight trains.

That seems very doable then! I was even thinking, if you started to ascend early enough, you could have an overpass cross over highway 2 and the new connector road all in one go. Depending on where you put route, you could even have a bridge over the river and highway 2 as the same time as well.

[Empire]

RE: google search

"The cost of twinning Highway 103 from Tantallon to Bridgewater is an estimated $448 million. If tolled it would cost between $4.08 to $6.81 per trip. The most expensive highway to twin in Nova Scotia would be an 83.9-kilometre stretch from St. Peters to Sydney at $491.3 million"

The $151M Highway 101 twinning project is being pushed back a year because a decision has yet to be made on fish passage in the Avon River in Windsor, N.S. (Paul Withers/CBC)

Now that major highway twinning projects are well underway or complete, perhaps the province can invest in the largest city in the region. $200-$400 million would be a good kickstart for a rail / U/G transit system in Halifax. This capital investment would see returns in the form of job creation and growth.

[ScovaNotian]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

There is indeed a contiguous line of undeveloped land from the current end-of-track north of Irving, south to Cornwallis Street. I was told after the tracks came up in the mid-70s that that was by design, that the railway right-of-way was to be preserved. I have no documentary evidence to prove that, but it would explain why no one has obstructed that corridor substantially in the past fifty years.

Which isn't to say that reinstalling rail would be cheap or without physical or political obstacles, but a forward-thinking city surely would preserve that option in its long-term transportation planning.

And consider it in the design of the Cogswell District.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

There is indeed a contiguous line of undeveloped land from the current end-of-track north of Irving, south to Cornwallis Street. I was told after the tracks came up in the mid-70s that that was by design, that the railway right-of-way was to be preserved. I have no documentary evidence to prove that, but it would explain why no one has obstructed that corridor substantially in the past fifty years.

Which isn't to say that reinstalling rail would be cheap or without physical or political obstacles, but a forward-thinking city surely would preserve that option in its long-term transportation planning.

Awfully ambitious if you to be calling Halifax a forward-thinking city. I suppose for the maritimes they are, and they are certainly more forward thinking than they were even just 10 years ago.

[mleblanc]

Interesting video on the rail transit system of Rennes, a city with an urban population of 357,327. Recently in 2022 it opened it's second line which is 13.4km long at the cost of $1.4B, and is mostly underground. Line B has a daily ridership of 120,000. The size of the city doesn't matter, investing in the proper things and thinking about the future does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgbskLXhk4Q

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

There is indeed a contiguous line of undeveloped land from the current end-of-track north of Irving, south to Cornwallis Street. I was told after the tracks came up in the mid-70s that that was by design, that the railway right-of-way was to be preserved. I have no documentary evidence to prove that, but it would explain why no one has obstructed that corridor substantially in the past fifty years.

Which isn't to say that reinstalling rail would be cheap or without physical or political obstacles, but a forward-thinking city surely would preserve that option in its long-term transportation planning.

This image is the one in @someone123's post from last year showing it quite clearly. The Dockyard staff might be upset by losing a strip of their parking lot, but then again, maybe not so many would need to drive to/from work every day if there was a rail link going right past their workplace.

[someone123]

I wonder how resistant CN is to service along different portions of the line. There's the southern vs. northern option but there could also be a shorter urban service rather than suburban-oriented commuter rail. It could go from downtown north and then loop around to Mumford and maybe on to the south end. It would have transit connections at Mumford and downtown (bus and ferry).

The biggest downside of these lines aside from issues with CN is that because they run by the water they have less development nearby. However, I am not sure this is as true of the northern alignment with downtown and the ferry, the military, and the shipyard.

[ScovaNotian]

There might be enough room left for a parkade. Compared with the cost of rail it wouldn't even be a major cost factor.