Atlantic Canada airport thread

[q12]

Originally Posted by Nashe

Is that flight full, Q12?

Air Canada's Halifax to New York (Newark) route is 85 to 97 percent full depending on the month.

Starting later this month/early June it has some serious competition though:

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by q12

People in St. John's can already connect through Halifax with a well-timed connection. And they benefit from U.S. preclearance in Halifax when making the connection.

Air Canada





Air Canada/United

Alright, so what about people in New Brunswick?

[q12]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Alright, so what about people in New Brunswick?

All I can say is hope that Air Canada Express flights will return soon to/from yhz once the pilot/aircraft shortages start to normalize.

These Maritime-Halifax flights pre-pandemic allowed for the same connections in Halifax that Newfoundland have now to New York for example.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by q12

All I can say is hope that Air Canada Express flights will return soon to/from yhz once the pilot/aircraft shortages start to normalize.

These Maritime-Halifax flights pre-pandemic allowed for the same connections in Halifax that Newfoundland have now to New York for example.

Also, we need to get back to 3 or 4 a day to TO and 2 or 3 to Montreal. That gives you an O'dark:30 flight out of SJ and a late night flight home. That kind of schedule allows same day travel when travelling to or from multiple destinations in North America or the Caribbean

[J81]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

That WestJet flight you mentioned actually originated in YYT. I tried that one time going from YYT to YVR; YYT-YQM-YHM-YEG; then change planes for YVR. It was a never again option for the sake of saving a few $$$.

It only originated in YYT for 2 summers in the early 2000s before WJ entered the YHZ market.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

To pick up more people. Might make more sense for St. John’s, Moncton, Fredericton, and Saint John, then for Halifax.


St. John’s -> Fredericton -> New York

is a lot better than

St. John’s -> Toronto -> New York, innit?

If we’re going to tax carbon and put a price of a pollution, shouldn’t we at least try and regulate the airlines to promote more direct routes combining regional populations than have 90% of flights from Atlantic Canada have a connection in Montreal or Toronto first? The flight to Toronto all the way from St. John’s to get to New York is pretty damn wasteful. Stopping in Saint John, Fredericton, or Moncton on the way would be preferable to everyone involved. Shouldn’t be that difficult to plan out and make it work.

St. John's did have a non-stop flight daily UA flight to Newark. Believe that's one of the flights YYT is trying to have return. If I was a YYT passenger and had to make a stop prior to landing in New York, it would be YHZ. That way, you clear US Customs in Halifax and it makes for a much easier connection in Newark as opposed to clearing customs there. Also by clearing customs in Halifax, you have access to LGA; which under your scenario is not available.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Alright, so what about people in New Brunswick?

Basically we're fucked.

The whole system of US pre-clearance facilities on Canadian soil ends up creating a system of winner and loser airports in Canada.

There are currently only eight pre-clearance airports in the country (Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto (Pearson), Ottawa, Montreal (Trudeau) and Halifax.

There are plans to add two new airports to the club, Quebec City and Toronto (Billy Bishop). These pre-clearance facilities are extremely expensive to build. I know the facility planned for Billy Bishop will cost $20M. US Border Protection is disinclined to construct any more of these pre-clearance facilities unless there is a certain threshold of existing US bound flights.

This creates a catch-22 situation. The mere existence of pre-clearance facilities directs traffic to airports with pre existing pre-clearance facilities. This stifles transborder traffic at other airports, hence eliminating demand for the construction of more pre-clearance facilities.

Halifax Stanfield, by the mere presence of having pre-clearance, has become the de facto US entry point for Atlantic Canada. This is unlikely to change any time soon.

Now, this does not absolutely eliminate the possibility of US transborder routes out of NB. You can fly to Orlando from Moncton for example. It just places NB airports at a huge competitive disadvantage compared to YHZ.

This problem is nationwide. The system is regional. Vancouver is the designated airport for BC. Saskatchewan has no pre-clearance facilities. The 10 airports which have been anointed are the chosen ones. By and large, the remaining airports in the country can just go pound sand........

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Also, we need to get back to 3 or 4 a day to TO and 2 or 3 to Montreal. That gives you an O'dark:30 flight out of SJ and a late night flight home. That kind of schedule allows same day travel when travelling to or from multiple destinations in North America or the Caribbean

Agreed. Also provides for next day to Europe without waiting forever in YYZ or YUL.

Wasn't the overnight flight from YHZ-LHR a continuation of another flight before?

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by TitleRequired

Agreed. Also provides for next day to Europe without waiting forever in YYZ or YUL.

Wasn't the overnight flight from YHZ-LHR a continuation of another flight before?

Not sure about that but I do know that many years ago it stopped in St John's.

[Nashe]

Meh, I go through US customs 3 or 4 times a year in airports and they're faster than ever. In Orlando last week I think we might have been in line for 10-15 minutes, tops. Rental cars take much, much longer.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Nashe

Meh, I go through US customs 3 or 4 times a year in airports and they're faster than ever. In Orlando last week I think we might have been in line for 10-15 minutes, tops. Rental cars take much, much longer.

That may well be but I think that, given the choice, most people would prefer just being able to walk off the plane and go on their way at their destination. Pre clearance also removes any worry about getting held up in customs and missing a connection.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by Nashe

Meh, I go through US customs 3 or 4 times a year in airports and they're faster than ever. In Orlando last week I think we might have been in line for 10-15 minutes, tops. Rental cars take much, much longer.

My experience as well. I do not change my plans based on what airport(s) have pre-clearance and which do not, anymore than I chose my route based on food option in the airport. This should not (and is not) a major barrier to US bound flights. Victoria, Saskatoon, and Regina (and likely others) have regular service to US cities with no pre-clearance.

Not sure if the airlines really care either, though I could see those that funded very expensive pre-clearance projects more willing to subsidize routes to justify the projects.

[q12]

The Benefits of Preclearance

In operation since 1952, Preclearance has proven benefits for all major stakeholders in the air travel industry.

Traveler Benefits

- No Security or Waiting Upon U.S. Arrival - Skip CBP and TSA inspection lines upon arrival in the U.S and proceed directly to a connecting flight or final destination.

- Easier Domestic Connections - Accept tighter connection windows at U.S. airports and be less likely to miss a domestic connection.

Airline Benefits

- Cost Savings - Access less expensive U.S. domestic gates and more flexible arrival times at airports in the U.S.

- Increase U.S. Market Access - Establish new routes to desirable U.S. destinations that meet growing traveler demand.

Airport Benefits

-New U.S. Destinations - Enable new direct routes to 160+ U.S. airports regardless of whether they have a CBP port of entry. Gain an advantage over competitors for the U.S.-bound traveler market.

-Terminal of the Future - Bring innovative technologies like facial recognition biometrics that expedite passenger processing, and help meet the demand of rising passenger volume to the U.S.

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/precleara...rrival%20times

4 daily flights from Halifax during the peak of summer require U.S. Preclearance:

Boston

Air Canada 1x Daily (78 seat Q400)
American Airlines 1x Weekly Seasonal (80 seat E175)

New York area airports

Air Canada EWR 1x Daily (78 seat Q400)
United Airlines EWR 2x Daily (80 seat E175)
American Airlines LGA 1x Daily Seasonal (80 seat E175) U.S. Preclearance required
Delta Airlines LGA 2x Daily (80 seat E175) U.S. Preclearance required

Philadelphia

American Airlines 1x Daily Seasonal (128 seat A319)

Washington Reagan

American Airlines 1x Daily Seasonal (80 seat E175) U.S. Preclearance required

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

My experience as well. I do not change my plans based on what airport(s) have pre-clearance and which do not, anymore than I chose my route based on food option in the airport.

Same. I guess if you are a weekly commuter or someting I can see a huge benefit. (though you likely have a Nexus card or somesuch then)

[MonctonRad]

Air Transat has already published their winter sun destinations for the 2024/25 season.

From Moncton (YQM)
- Cancun, Mexico (1x weekly)
- Varadero, Cuba (1x weekly)
- Punta Cana, DR (1x weekly)
- Orlando, Florida (2x weekly)

That's 5 flights weekly out of Moncton. There will be 22 flights weekly out of Halifax.

https://www.travelweek.ca/news/air-t...the-maritimes/

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Nashe

Same. I guess if you are a weekly commuter or someting I can see a huge benefit. (though you likely have a Nexus card or somesuch then)

Airlines prefer preclearance because (among other reasons) gate slots at domestic terminals in the US are more plentiful/easier to obtain and cheaper.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Air Transat has already published their winter sun destinations for the 2024/25 season.

From Moncton (YQM)
- Cancun, Mexico (1x weekly)
- Varadero, Cuba (1x weekly)
- Punta Cana, DR (1x weekly)
- Orlando, Florida (2x weekly)

That's 5 flights weekly out of Moncton. There will be 22 flights weekly out of Halifax.

https://www.travelweek.ca/news/air-t...the-maritimes/

No word yet on the Sunwing situation for next winter. They have been bought by WestJet, and will operate in close association with WestJet Vacations. I am not sure if they will be operated as a separate entity, or will be folded into WestJet proper. In any event, I expect their offerings out of YQM will be similar to last year.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Basically we're fucked.

The whole system of US pre-clearance facilities on Canadian soil ends up creating a system of winner and loser airports in Canada.

There are currently only eight pre-clearance airports in the country (Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto (Pearson), Ottawa, Montreal (Trudeau) and Halifax.

There are plans to add two new airports to the club, Quebec City and Toronto (Billy Bishop). These pre-clearance facilities are extremely expensive to build. I know the facility planned for Billy Bishop will cost $20M. US Border Protection is disinclined to construct any more of these pre-clearance facilities unless there is a certain threshold of existing US bound flights.

This creates a catch-22 situation. The mere existence of pre-clearance facilities directs traffic to airports with pre existing pre-clearance facilities. This stifles transborder traffic at other airports, hence eliminating demand for the construction of more pre-clearance facilities.

Halifax Stanfield, by the mere presence of having pre-clearance, has become the de facto US entry point for Atlantic Canada. This is unlikely to change any time soon.

Now, this does not absolutely eliminate the possibility of US transborder routes out of NB. You can fly to Orlando from Moncton for example. It just places NB airports at a huge competitive disadvantage compared to YHZ.

This problem is nationwide. The system is regional. Vancouver is the designated airport for BC. Saskatchewan has no pre-clearance facilities. The 10 airports which have been anointed are the chosen ones. By and large, the remaining airports in the country can just go pound sand........

At present, the only other likely candidate for US pre-clearance would be Victoria (YYJ); especially if they can re-establish their California flights. There are already pre-clearance officers stationed in Victoria for the Victoria-Port Angeles ferry. From a resources perspective, having officers work at two facilities in a region would create efficiency.

Should Porter transform Montreal-St. Hubert airport into the hub it envisions with US flights in the mix, pre-clearance could be a possibility. That would be it for Canadian airports.

Under the pre-clearance agreement, Canada has the right to establish pre-clearance facilities at US airports. Will Canada ever take advantage of this provision?

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

At present, the only other likely candidate for US pre-clearance would be Victoria (YYJ); especially if they can re-establish their California flights. There are already pre-clearance officers stationed in Victoria for the Victoria-Port Angeles ferry. From a resources perspective, having officers work at two facilities in a region would create efficiency.

Should Porter transform Montreal-St. Hubert airport into the hub it envisions with US flights in the mix, pre-clearance could be a possibility. That would be it for Canadian airports.

Under the pre-clearance agreement, Canada has the right to establish pre-clearance facilities at US airports. Will Canada ever take advantage of this provision?

Having Canadian pre-clearance in the US would be convenient for Canadians flying home, might stem a little of the refugee flow, would improve border security but would cost the feds money.....so not a chance in hell.

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Having Canadian pre-clearance in the US would be convenient for Canadians flying home, might stem a little of the refugee flow, would improve border security but would cost the feds money.....so not a chance in hell.

With the safe third country agreement, unlikely.

We would require preclearance in Mexico instead; the country added to the 'visa required' list after claims; mostly rejected, increased exponentially.