(YEG) Edmonton International Airport Part 4 (October 2023)

[loonytoon44]

I much prefer the connection through Amsterdam to that of Paris. The connections to the UK alone with KLM are amazing, almost every regional airport has access allowing you to bypass LHR/LGW/MAN. This for me is a savings of 2-7 hours of driving after a long flight, depending on traffic, not to mention car rentals are much cheaper too.

[Rocket252]

^ I would agree. We have connected through AMS to Rome, Barcelona and Lisbon in the past. And in a few weeks we are going to connect through AMS to Edinburgh - all with KLM.

I think for folks flying out of YEG it’s a good option and should be supported.

[Rocket252]

First Condor flight landed today.

Funky livery.

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by OilCity98

I think YEG could easily support 3x weekly AF to CDG personally.

You're the only one... ...well maybe the misguided leaders of EIA think that as well.

[EdmTrekker]

Acey, do you have access to YEG originating passenger numbers connecting at YYZ and YVR to CDG? Of course on AC and AF.

[Coldrsx]

[YegFan]

Originally Posted by LO 044

You're the only one... ...well maybe the misguided leaders of EIA think that as well.

^the number of foreign born in this country has never been this high. Demand for international travel is increasing every year from everywhere in Canada.

AMS has growth restrictions and sooner or later transit traffic on KL/AF will be transitioning to CDG and CPH as AF/KL acquired a significant stake in SAS. So AF/KL will start to expand into its 2 other hubs.

As a matter of fact, one of the reasons why AF/KL aggressively pursued SAS is related to AMS restrictions.

In the meantime, LH has stated that it intends to develop BRU further as a major connecting hub. Nothing stays constant. It's a dynamic industry.
if AF can get more profitable traffic from any point, they will seek it regardless of what people on this forum or another think.

[LO 044]

^To be honest I think there's now two of you drinking the Kool-Aid.

There are no guarantees that AMS flights are transitioning to other hubs sooner or later. There are so many options solving AMS supposed congestion like using larger aircraft, eliminating flights from AMS to cities within two hours, moving sun flights from AMS to RTM. Everything is before the courts and the EU generally favors competition. The EU has already ruled against lowering traffic at AMS and favored with the airlines including KLM. If you move aircraft to other airports, you are moving the congestion, noise and pollution to other airports so you're just imposing the negative effects on others and last time I checked the EU is one big country.

From comparing the 2 airports strictly myself it looks like AMS has more connection options than CDG. I personally would take AMS over CDG any day. FRA is finishing up on a new terminal so BRU will be no game changer anytime soon. CPH has too much backtracking for it to be a premier hub but that's my opinion only.

if AF can get more profitable traffic from any point, they will seek it regardless...

That's the point. It won't get more profitable traffic from YEG. We haven't even got Icelandair back. Condor is really a niche route with only 2 flights per week for the summer. KL relies more on economy traffic than business traffic like say BA so I think they work out here. Let's hope that KL flights to AMS remain. I think their African network is a bit of distinguisher from others and the amount of destinations KL has in Europe is very competitive to someone like LH and SK. AF and BA seem to only connect to premier type destinations/capital cities. AF will fly to YYC faster than YEG and compete head on with WS.

[OilCity98]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Can't speak on the money side, but load factors were very good this past winter on CDG.

They wouldn't have increased it to daily for the coming winter if it didn't do well.

Condor's flight though 2x Weekly and seasonal is still a pretty new and undeveloped route with decent upgauge from 767 to 339 this year. Following KLM, I am sure that with some success and incremental market development, frequency and seasonality could grow on FRA in coming seasons and as Condor takes on more aircraft deliveries. It is a good non stop connection to have even in it's current capacity. How would this be any different from a seasonal AF connection to Paris?
With the two existing EU nonstops, assuming these flights both have long term success in our market, and that we see increases to Condors service, what should the next target be? Resumption of AC LHR? FI to KEF (when they sort out their aircraft shortage and 757 retirements, that is impacting many of their existing frequencies)? BA to LHR? WK to ZRH summer seasonal to match YYC? At some point with time and especially projected population growth, we will see a third Euro flight.
Air France makes sense to me for several reasons..
They are active in expansion into North America, having recently successfully entered and expanded presence in smaller Canadian markets and with many new widebodies coming.
YYC or YEG would be next up for them likely if they were to add another stop in Canada given their current reach, and YYC has a Westjet direct daily flight with a fortress hub of feed to compete against. This existing flight proves demand.. probably doesn't exist at that frequency without YEG feed.
The company AF/KLM has presence at YEG already.
AF/KLM have similarly less premium heavy cabins than a BA.
There is, albeit seasonally fluctuating, demand to support point to point flying between France and Western Canada, as well as Africa. AF's French + African connections are significant.
YEG is the busiest and largest airport, and population center in the country without a direct flight to Paris.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

Originally Posted by OilCity98

Resumption of AC LHR?

That would my dream scenario! Unfortunately AC hates Western Canada. A WS non-stop flight to LHR or LGW would suffice for me personally, seeing that I have relatives in England.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by OilCity98

Condor's flight though 2x Weekly and seasonal is still a pretty new and undeveloped route with decent upgauge from 767 to 339 this year. Following KLM, I am sure that with some success and incremental market development, frequency and seasonality could grow on FRA in coming seasons and as Condor takes on more aircraft deliveries. It is a good non stop connection to have even in it's current capacity. How would this be any different from a seasonal AF connection to Paris?
With the two existing EU nonstops, assuming these flights both have long term success in our market, and that we see increases to Condors service, what should the next target be? Resumption of AC LHR? FI to KEF (when they sort out their aircraft shortage and 757 retirements, that is impacting many of their existing frequencies)? BA to LHR? WK to ZRH summer seasonal to match YYC? At some point with time and especially projected population growth, we will see a third Euro flight.
Air France makes sense to me for several reasons..
They are active in expansion into North America, having recently successfully entered and expanded presence in smaller Canadian markets and with many new widebodies coming.
YYC or YEG would be next up for them likely if they were to add another stop in Canada given their current reach, and YYC has a Westjet direct daily flight with a fortress hub of feed to compete against. This existing flight proves demand.. probably doesn't exist at that frequency without YEG feed.
The company AF/KLM has presence at YEG already.
AF/KLM have similarly less premium heavy cabins than a BA.
There is, albeit seasonally fluctuating, demand to support point to point flying between France and Western Canada, as well as Africa. AF's French + African connections are significant.
YEG is the busiest and largest airport, and population center in the country without a direct flight to Paris.

Condor caters more to German tourists/is a leisure airline, and is quite different from AF IMO, so they can't be compared. It would be nice to see discover airlines come to YEG as they're a leisure airline but are also integrated with LH so FRA connections are available, although I'm not sure they'd want to compete with Condor at YEG.

YEG really needs LHR way before CDG is even thought of. Sure, YEG is the busiest/largest airport without a direct flight to Paris in Canada, but using that logic YYC is the busiest, largest airport without direct flights to IST, DXB and DEL. Doesn't mean YYC will ever see those happen.

[Airboy]

Talking with a friend in Belgium last week. Apparently Jasper is the place people are talking about now and not Banff. Banff is to busy and people there want a more relaxed experience. I asked her to send me any of the articles.

[ace.yyc]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

Unfortunately AC hates Western Canada.

AC hates the prairies... an important distinction.

Originally Posted by Airboy

Talking with a friend in Belgium last week. Apparently Jasper is the place people are talking about now and not Banff. Banff is to busy and people there want a more relaxed experience. I asked her to send me any of the articles.

No actual numbers support this. Travel is up to both, but Jasper is hardly on any significant trajectory to overtake Banff in terms of being a destination for inbound international pax, or being the sole reason for any notable increase in YEG service.

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

Acey, do you have access to YEG originating passenger numbers connecting at YYZ and YVR to CDG? Of course on AC and AF.

Good question. I'd have to dig/ask for specifics but would have to share in generalities anyway. What I can say for sure, as you all already know, is that a whole ton of people fly YEG-YYZ to connect on to Europe, and a whole ton of people fly YEG-YVR to connect to Asia.

WS' YYC-CDG has a significant number of onward pax. The days where there's no YEG-AMS? The number one non-YYC source of originating pax is consistently YEG. This is why getting YEG-AMS to daily is step one, and it looks like we'll be there soon, honestly.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

AC hates the prairies... an important distinction.



No actual numbers support this. Travel is up to both, but Jasper is hardly on any significant trajectory to overtake Banff in terms of being a destination for inbound international pax, or being the sole reason for any notable increase in YEG service.



Good question. I'd have to dig/ask for specifics but would have to share in generalities anyway. What I can say for sure, as you all already know, is that a whole ton of people fly YEG-YYZ to connect on to Europe, and a whole ton of people fly YEG-YVR to connect to Asia.

WS' YYC-CDG has a significant number of onward pax. The days where there's no YEG-AMS? The number one non-YYC source of originating pax is consistently YEG. This is why getting YEG-AMS to daily is step one, and it looks like we'll be there soon, honestly.

I agree Jasper will never over take Banff and nor should it. But what out discussion was about was that Jasper Is being promoted in those areas. I have said I have asked her to send a link to what she see.

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by Airboy

Talking with a friend in Belgium last week. Apparently Jasper is the place people are talking about now and not Banff. Banff is to busy and people there want a more relaxed experience. I asked her to send me any of the articles.

Banff & Lake Louise/ even Canmore is usually more Busier with tourists in the Spring & Summer seasons every year. 1 of the reasons why Calgary YYC has more (seasonal) International destinations compared to Edmonton YEG✅.

During the winter season is a different story.

https://www.rmoutlook.com/banff/banf...tation-8537304

[Calfan12]

WestJet is making new YEG - Atlanta (ATL) US route year round.

For winter 2024 ,YEG - Ottawa (YOW) operates 5x weekly & YEG to Montreal (YUL) 4x weekly.

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2...as-canada-s-le

[loonytoon44]

Not surprised to see ATL go year round, but it’s welcome news.

[hollywoodcory]

YEG-ATL was announced as year-round right from the start.
https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2...ectivity-throu

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

YEG-ATL was announced as year-round right from the start (Nov 23rd PR) . https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2...ectivity-throu

Indeed it was. "As previously announced, the airline will continue to strengthen connectivity to key Delta Air Lines hubs with service from Edmonton to Atlanta moving to year-round. "* with connectivity". "With connectivity" means the YEG-ATL had a connection. The Press Releases does not explain further as to the "* with connectivity".

Perhaps one, some or all of the Atlanta flights went through YYC or somewhere else. With the reference to "with connectivity" makes it a little worrisome to think all year round daily flights are nonstops.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

Indeed it was. "As previously announced, the airline will continue to strengthen connectivity to key Delta Air Lines hubs with service from Edmonton to Atlanta moving to year-round. "* with connectivity". "With connectivity" means the YEG-ATL had a connection. The Press Releases does not explain further as to the "* with connectivity".

Perhaps one, some or all of the Atlanta flights went through YYC or somewhere else. With the reference to "with connectivity" makes it a little worrisome to think all year round daily flights are nonstops.

It’s bookable as non-stop daily right through the winter.