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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2007, 8:44 PM
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I'm no carpet-bagger. As a life long floridian, I feel the same way. I spent a good deal of my formidable years amongst the cow pastures and orange groves of florida's "heartland". I despise the sprawl as much as anybody, but rowth is an industry in Florida and I don't know what the state would be without it. Any big restrictions on growth would only cause prices to go further skyward. I'd like to stay here if I can, but I can barely afford it now.

I also believe there's good "sprawl". There are areas where we can build. The 17 and 27 corridors for instance, have many old town centers that are just begging for redevelopment; Lake Wales, Frostproof, Arcadia. I've heard from more than a couple of people that Palatka and it's riverfront setting are poised for boom. The US1 corridor in south florida could go much denser (Hollywood, Delray). The Daytona area in particular with it's satellite town cetners (New Smyrna, Ormond Beach, Ponce Inlet) could use a fresh infusion of development. Of course I don't want 20 new Orlando's scarring the state, but I think we do have the room and most importantly I think we can still preserve a lot of that old Florida if we do it correctly.

What I think bother's me most is the people that complain about change just for the sake of it. They don't like sprawl, they don't like condo's, they don't like trains, they don't like anything except the way it was in 1950 or whenever it was they moved here, when eggs were 2cents, you could have the whole beach to yourself, and everybody spoke english. Some things will change for the better and some for the worst, but constantly complaining about everything will not get us anywhere. when they write these articles these are the people they look for.

(last paragraph not directed at anyone here, just on general conversations with people.)
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Last edited by brickell; Jan 12, 2007 at 8:56 PM.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2007, 5:36 AM
Diddle E Squat Diddle E Squat is offline
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Why was this thread banished from the "City Discussion" thread to this useless "US" section that nobody uses? Look how few posts have been started here, the users are voting and they don't care for this section. This thread is about a change in the demographic patterns that affect many cities in several states and regions, and certainly is more relevant to city discussions than "Does Your Town Have a Groovy Boat Ride?"
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2007, 2:29 PM
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Agreed. This is where threads come to die. A shame too.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2007, 3:00 PM
BTinSF BTinSF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickell View Post
The Daytona area in particular with it's satellite town cetners (New Smyrna, Ormond Beach, Ponce Inlet) could use a fresh infusion of development.
OMG, don't let my Mom hear you say that. The rest of my family lives in Ormond Beach and likes it just the way it is, thanks. Say the word "condo" and you will get curses out of most of them. But I do think that the core of Daytona Beach could be much more dense and Miami-like--and less sleazy. To get that way comfortably, though, I think some other things about Florida will have to change dramatically. I'm thinking if the utter dependence on the automobile, for one thing. I read elsewhere about new commuter rail in Orange County and that's a very good thing. But Florida should build high-speed rail in the medians of I-4 connecting Tampa, Orlando and Daytona, and the Florida Turnpike connecting Orlando and Miami (and the east-west I-4 route). And Daytona itself, because it's a pretty narrow north-south strip, is perfect for light rail up and down A1A.

Palatka, by the way, is where I think I'd live if I moved back to FL and I was hoping nobody else had even heard of it.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2007, 3:53 PM
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My mom is in New Smyrna and feels a similar way. I can't say that I blame them considering that most of the development lately has been water front "luxury". Taking away their views and access. They're afraid of becoming like South Florida, yet look towards Orlando as some magical wonderland.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2007, 8:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Diddle E Squat View Post
This thread is about a change in the demographic patterns that affect many cities in several states and regions, and certainly is more relevant to city discussions than "Does Your Town Have a Groovy Boat Ride?"


Almost missed this section, too...scrolled right by in the blink of an eye.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2007, 2:38 AM
Jasonhouse Jasonhouse is offline
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People who complain about Florida being overpopulated are simply clueless.

Florida is not overpopulated... not by a long shot... what Florida is however, is SPRAWLED.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2007, 5:49 PM
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Jason, unless, of course, you can come up with a definition of "overpopulation" that everyone will agree on (give it a shot), then it's too subjective to be calling people clueless.
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2007, 3:01 PM
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Originally Posted by brickell View Post
Agreed. This is where threads come to die. A shame too.
Ha, that's exactly what I've always thought. Only time I ever end up here is if I get redirected from somewhere else.
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2007, 3:57 PM
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Broward's soaring costs have many leaving home
In 2006, more people left Broward County than moved in from other states. High costs were blamed.
BY LISA ARTHUR, TIM HENDERSON AND ROBERTO SANTIAGO
larthur@MiamiHerald.com

A steady influx of people relocating from throughout the nation fueled Broward's population growth for years, making it one of the country's fastest-growing counties.

But that trend reversed itself last year, according to a census report released today. It found about 18,000 more people left Broward than moved in from other states.

The new numbers confirm what many living in South Florida already know, say demographers and economists: The spiraling cost of living is making the region a less attractive place to live.

''Housing costs are out of whack, and there isn't an acceptable balance between cost of living and incomes here right now,'' said Bill Leonard, senior planner for Broward County.

To be sure, Broward and Miami-Dade County, which has been experiencing a net loss in domestic migration for decades, are still growing -- albeit slowly. But increases are being driven by newborns and foreign immigrants -- not newcomers from other states, according to census estimates.

That's a change for Broward, but experts say it's likely a temporary hiccup.

''I don't see this being a permanent tanking of South Florida; this is happening in other places around the country, too,'' said Richard Ogburn, assistant to the director of research and budget at the South Florida Regional Planning Council.

His prediction: ``Either salaries here will become more consistent with housing costs, or the housing cost structure will collapse, correct and we'll go back to where things are sustainable on what people earn here.''

LOWER NET GAIN

Statewide, the new census report shows that a net gain in people moving from other states is lower than last year's. From 2004 to 2005, the state had a net gain of 262,000; from 2005 to 2006, it was less than 166,000. But more than half of the decrease comes from net losses in Monroe, Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties.

The history of domestic net losses in Miami-Dade, hovering around 30,000 each year since 2001, has been attributed to the county's status as a gateway for immigrants. The same demographic story may become more pronounced in Broward, too.

''We've long understood Miami-Dade and Broward are points of entry, but they are also flow-through counties, with lots of immigrants moving on after getting their feet on the ground here,'' Ogburn said. ``What is international migration one year can be domestic migration the next.''

LONG-TERM TREND?

But he and others stress that it's premature to assume any long-term trend in Broward, though more and more anecdotal evidence that the county is becoming less attractive has emerged over the past two years.

Consider:

• Many Broward businesses and local governments have raised concerns about housing costs driving out experienced workers and making it difficult to attract new workers to South Florida.

• Broward school officials have reported a decline in enrollment in recent years. This in a district that only a decade ago had kids sitting on floors for lack of desks and could not bring in portable classrooms fast enough to accommodate the flood of new students.

''It's an economic shift,'' said Jill Young, a demographer with Broward schools, which had about 10,000 fewer students in an annual October head count than it did two years earlier. ``People are sill coming here, but can they afford to come with children? I know we don't see a lot of kids coming out of all the new townhomes and condos.''

PROPERTY TAX CRISIS

Keeping South Florida attractive to newcomers may depend on how the Florida Legislature resolves the state's property tax crisis, says Tony Villamil, an economist with the Coral Gables-based Washington Economics Group and chairman of the Beacon Council's Economic Roundtable.

He said the property tax structure not only affects the homeowner's pocketbook, but also discourages affordable-housing construction. County assessors widely interpret Florida law as requiring property to be taxed on its best and highest use.

''When you do that, it means you have to build up and do luxury instead of doing affordable or smaller apartment buildings to make an after-tax profit,'' Villamil said.

A simple change in state law to tax on actual use and income a rental property generates, for instance, would encourage developers to build affordable apartments and condos.

''There certainly is a demand out there for more affordable and reasonably priced real estate,'' Villamil said.
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  #31  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2007, 9:45 PM
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We moved from FL to TN, it's cheaper.

My wife and I moved to Florida in 2003 to start a business, which we finally got around to doing in 2004. Unfortunately after gas prices soared and the hurricanes drove away our customers, we found that our business could no longer make it. At the very beginning of 2007, after having a baby in November, we moved back to our original home, Tennessee. The cost of living here is so much cheaper. We went from a small 2 bedroom townhome rental at $850 month, with bad a bad AC (so it was really hot, all the time), to a 5 bedroom home that we now own with a monthly mortgage of only $766and we are not hot anymore or crammed into a small place. It is amazing how much happier we are now.
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  #32  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2007, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diddle E Squat View Post
Why was this thread banished from the "City Discussion" thread to this useless "US" section that nobody uses? Look how few posts have been started here, the users are voting and they don't care for this section. This thread is about a change in the demographic patterns that affect many cities in several states and regions, and certainly is more relevant to city discussions than "Does Your Town Have a Groovy Boat Ride?"
Agreed. I don't understand why my thread about U.S. population, which is generating nothing but comments about individual cities and metros, was moved here too. It was getting rapid response and multiple views over in city discussions and is withering away over here.
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