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  #1  
Old 12-15-2007, 03:39 AM
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Dubai's Debt Cloud


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Dubai's Debt Cloud
By CHIP CUMMINS
December 14, 2007; Page C1

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates -- Dubai is on a spending spree, and financial analysts are starting to wonder about the amount of debt the city-state is racking up.

Its oil production is dwindling, and its debt load is four times the average among other Persian Gulf states. Credit-rating companies are asking for more information to determine how sound the government really is.

"From published documents, it is difficult to get a picture of the complete financial situation," said Standard & Poor's analyst Farouk Soussa. "The transparency isn't good."

One of seven emirates making up the United Arab Emirates, Dubai, like other Middle East governments, has been on a deal-making binge. Companies owned or backed by the government have signed agreements or made plays for billions of dollars in assets this year, including stakes in American and European stock exchanges, a Las Vegas casino operator and, most recently, a chunk of Sony Corp. Part of Dubai's deal-making is financed by debt.

At the same time, other Dubai entities have launched expansion plans relying on public borrowing. Nakheel, a government-controlled company building a giant, palm-tree-shaped island development, placed $750 million in bonds this month to finance its plans. Government-owned Jebel Ali Free Zone recently listed 7.5 billion dirham ($2 billion) of bonds.

Demanding Dubai Data

Moody's Investors Service, Fitch Ratings and Standard & Poor's Ratings Services are handing out credit ratings to many of these government-backed companies, and they are starting to ask for more disclosure from the emirate, which they assume will bail out the companies if they get into a jam.

"The rapid economic development of Dubai is certainly being accompanied by increased levels of leverage from companies that are closely associated with the government," said Tristan Cooper, a Moody's analyst in Dubai. "Without a clearer picture of the overall financial position of the central government and the broader public sector," investors could become more cautious.

The situation highlights a broader issue. Many of the world's governments and the companies they control are notoriously opaque, especially in the Middle East. But big regional investors like Qatar, Kuwait and Abu Dhabi (also part of the U.A.E.) have big hydrocarbon reserves to back up their deals. Production can be relatively easy to estimate from public figures. Dubai's reserves have been shrinking for years.

Dubai also has taken a more-complex approach to investing overseas. Most other deal-making countries have used massive investment authorities to pursue their deals. The Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, for instance, bought a $7.5 billion stake in Citigroup Inc. last month. In contrast, Dubai's ruler, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum, has entrusted a cadre of lieutenants to run his own and his government's business interests. They often compete with one another and hunt for deals independently, but they all ultimately answer to Sheik Mohammed.

The government association has helped a handful of Dubai corporate entities get high credit ratings. The assumption is that Sheikh Mohammed or his government will come to the rescue in a pinch. And if Dubai gets overextended, analysts expect the emirate's much-richer cousins in Abu Dhabi will lend a hand. Abu Dhabi is the capital of the U.A.E., and its ruler is the country's president. Sheikh Mohammed is prime minister.

Moody's recently gave one of its highest corporate ratings, A1, to government-controlled DIFC Investments LLC. DIFC owns a stake in Borse Dubai, the holding company that recently agreed to acquire Nordic exchange OMX AB for some $4.9 billion. The complex deal aims to eventually give Dubai a stake of nearly 20% in Nasdaq Stock Market Inc. In a ratings note, Moody's said the rating reflects "the credit support the Government of Dubai is likely to provide in a distress situation."





This year, S&P rated Dubai Holding Commercial Operations Group LLC single-A-plus, citing "strong implicit support from the Emirate of Dubai." Sheikh Mohammed owns the entity's parent, Dubai Holding. A Dubai Holding subsidiary recently bought the Sony stake.

Mystery Investments?

The trouble with these corporate ratings is that without more disclosure, it is difficult to evaluate the financial soundness of these entities and the government backing them. As its oil supplies dwindle, Dubai has diversified its economy into financial services, tourism and real-estate development, among other pursuits. Those revenue streams and their underlying assets are difficult to pin down without access to government books.

In an emailed response to questions, a Dubai government spokesman said the emirate's debt load is "very moderate" by international standards, and the debt raised by Dubai entities "has all been in their capacity as leading international players that are successfully expanding in a number of profitable markets." He said Dubai is in the process of obtaining a rating on its sovereign, or government, debt. Such a rating gauges a government's ability to pay back its borrowing, and it is used to price publicly sold debt.

S&P credit analysts estimate Dubai's debt, relative to gross domestic product, is about 42%. Compared with the U.S., where gross debt stands at more than 60% of GDP, according to the International Monetary Fund, that isn't bad. But in Abu Dhabi, debt is equal to just 2.9% of GDP.

Analysts think Dubai's assets, including real estate, aviation and tourism interests and taxes, far outweigh its debt, but they would like to know more.

Of course, credit-rating companies have another motivation: In most cases, they are paid to rate the creditworthiness of firms and governments, and the big three firms are eager for clients like the government of Dubai.

Write to Chip Cummins at chip.cummins@wsj.com1
Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119759841193228627.html


     
     
  #2  
Old 12-15-2007, 04:12 AM
Master Shake Master Shake is offline
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Well Dubai looks like a bubble economy. Where are all the residents coming from for these new buildings?

Still I wish the US could have reduce its debt levels to Dubai's levels.


     
     
  #3  
Old 12-15-2007, 04:45 AM
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They are getting too ahead of themselves if you ask me, and this is article is proof of it. Now we all know this development is attractive to the eye, but when it comes down to the wallets of these people, they are screaming 'we've been worked too hard!'

I'm curious to this day as I always have been where all these mystery buyers are coming from, and for the sake of Dubai, they better make an appearance soon.


     
     
  #4  
Old 12-15-2007, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
Well Dubai looks like a bubble economy.
They have been saying the same for the past 20 years.


     
     
  #5  
Old 12-15-2007, 05:34 AM
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LOL, at least they're spending to improve their nation, instead of investing in a foreign nation that doesn't even like them.

Last time I checked, the US economy was on the bullet train to hell too.
We'll just have to see who gets there first.


     
     
  #6  
Old 12-15-2007, 07:20 AM
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If Dubai takes on debt to make successful investments, they won't regret it. But the track record of foreign investors in the US and western Europe is not that good. In the 80's the Japanese lost money on a lot of what they bought. Prince al Waleed of Saudi Arabia's investment in Citicorp back in 1990 (or so) hasn't made much.

There was another article in the WSJ recently about Saudi infrastructure investments in energy-intensive heavy industry like petrochemicals and aluminum (which requires huge amounts of electricity generated, in their case, from oil) which seems to make more sense to me for those countries with long-lasting oil reserves, but Dubai is not that lucky. They have to put their oil income to work in non-oil dependent but nevertheless successful businesses if they can.

Frankly, I personally wonder about all the real estate development. I just don't see what makes Dubai more attractive to people looking for a safe place with bling than the other Emirates, and I wonder how many such people there really could be in the end. Finally, there's nowhere in the middle east that seems ultimately safe to me. All that it would take to cut the value of a lot of that newly built real estate drastically is a few terrorist bombs proving that their safety is illusory. And while the Saudi monarchy seems the primary target in that neighborhood right now, if the House of Saud falls or the bombers just get tired of trying there, the UAE and its westernization drive looks like a seductive target to me for the Islamic radicals.


     
     
  #7  
Old 12-15-2007, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTinSF View Post
If Dubai takes on debt to make successful investments, they won't regret it. But the track record of foreign investors in the US and western Europe is not that good. In the 80's the Japanese lost money on a lot of what they bought. Prince al Waleed of Saudi Arabia's investment in Citicorp back in 1990 (or so) hasn't made much.

There was another article in the WSJ recently about Saudi infrastructure investments in energy-intensive heavy industry like petrochemicals and aluminum (which requires huge amounts of electricity generated, in their case, from oil) which seems to make more sense to me for those countries with long-lasting oil reserves, but Dubai is not that lucky. They have to put their oil income to work in non-oil dependent but nevertheless successful businesses if they can.

Frankly, I personally wonder about all the real estate development. I just don't see what makes Dubai more attractive to people looking for a safe place with bling than the other Emirates, and I wonder how many such people there really could be in the end. Finally, there's nowhere in the middle east that seems ultimately safe to me. All that it would take to cut the value of a lot of that newly built real estate drastically is a few terrorist bombs proving that their safety is illusory. And while the Saudi monarchy seems the primary target in that neighborhood right now, if the House of Saud falls or the bombers just get tired of trying there, the UAE and its westernization drive looks like a seductive target to me for the Islamic radicals.
I think that the boom in Dubai is pretty much their only option at this point given the (relatively close) end of oil, so investing tons of $$ into making Dubai a world reknown city was a smart thing to do... and it appears there's at least SOME demand for all the new residential stuff there, at least up till now.

Thing is, although the UAE is a stable nation, they're in one of the most unstable regions of the world (ok, probably the most unstable region). You hit the nail on the head regarding potential scenarios ending Dubai's boom... I think the fall of the House of Saud tops it. The fall of Saudi Arabia would further destabilize the region, and would probably cause a major regional (if not global) war, involving at least Israel and the United States, and probably Iran/Turkey et al as well. Even if there is no war, with a terrorist regime in the country next door, the UAE would come under extreme pressure to end pro-western reforms and would become a much more restrictive state.

There's also the chance of a terrorist attack on the UAE itself, although I'd guess they have higher priority targets at this point... a war between the US and Iran would likely also prove catastrophic to Dubai, though. There would be a large naval conflict in the Persian Gulf (oil exports completely shut off for a period of weeks), and Iranians would also target US interests in the region, and it wouldn't surprise me if their missiles "accidentally" hit prominent targets in Dubai (Burj Dubai, Burj Al Arab, etc...).

Hopefully there's no war or terrorist attack, otherwise Dubai really will be screwed (at least temporarily).


     
     
  #8  
Old 12-15-2007, 08:17 PM
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It's interesting to note that some media reports portray Abu Dhabi as "dad" and Dubai as the "spendthrift" son. It almost seems like the power center "Abu" is allowing the teenage son to soup up his Mustang before learning to drive.


     
     
  #9  
Old 12-16-2007, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
Well Dubai looks like a bubble economy. Where are all the residents coming from for these new buildings?

Still I wish the US could have reduce its debt levels to Dubai's levels.
They come from all over the World. they are tourists purchasing a second home, to people who come there and do business earning lots of money.

Investors are not stupid to build for build sake. There is got to be demand to earn the money back and make a profit. Not one investor wants to go bankrupt.

And Dubai's population is growing fast if you read the statistics. We tend to forget that Dubai is a fast growing city that does not sprawl as much as most cities in the U.S..

The U.S. could build a lot of skyscrapers if it wants to. But instead of choosing to build up, we spread out, consuming much land and building mac mansions and suburban office buildings, to please a lifestyle.




If you have had eradicated half the sprawl in a metropolitan area like Phoenix, you would have had hunderds of skyscrapers (catering to the middle and high class) within the city limits of Phoenix , and have it looking similar to Dubai.


I view Dubai as the 21st century New York in the making.


     
     
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratosphere 2020 View Post
They come from all over the World. they are tourists purchasing a second home, to people who come there and do business earning lots of money.

Investors are not stupid to build for build sake. There is got to be demand to earn the money back and make a profit. Not one investor wants to go bankrupt.

And Dubai's population is growing fast if you read the statistics. We tend to forget that Dubai is a fast growing city that does not sprawl as much as most cities in the U.S..

The U.S. could build a lot of skyscrapers if it wants to. But instead of choosing to build up, we spread out, consuming much land and building mac mansions and suburban office buildings, to please a lifestyle.




If you have had eradicated half the sprawl in a metropolitan area like Phoenix, you would have had hunderds of skyscrapers (catering to the middle and high class) within the city limits of Phoenix , and have it looking similar to Dubai.


I view Dubai as the 21st century New York in the making.
Naaa, the environment is not sustainable like NYC's


     
     
  #11  
Old 12-17-2007, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Stratosphere 2020 View Post
I view Dubai as the 21st century New York in the making.
Yes and no.


     
     
  #12  
Old 12-17-2007, 01:52 AM
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Thanks BT for posting this interesting article. From my naive perspective I've been really starting to get the sense that the entire global economy just rests on several debt fueld bubbles (China, The US, Dubai,etc).

It makes for a scary financial future


     
     
  #13  
Old 12-17-2007, 04:48 PM
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BTinSF - If Dubai takes on debt to make successful investments, they won't regret it.

I agree. . . They're taking on a lot of risk to make a significant divestiture in their economy before their oil reserves run dry. . . investing in foreign markets is just another vehicle to help acheive that goal. . .

. . .


     
     
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Old 12-17-2007, 07:26 PM
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BTinSF - If Dubai takes on debt to make successful investments, they won't regret it.

I agree. . . They're taking on a lot of risk to make a significant divestiture in their economy before their oil reserves run dry. . . investing in foreign markets is just another vehicle to help acheive that goal. . .

. . .
Yep, and I don't think that there's a city in existence that has marketed itself to this level in this short of time. They certainly have the capital, business interest, and star power to become a world tourism leader.


     
     
  #15  
Old 12-17-2007, 11:31 PM
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Well, would someone travel there other than novelty? It's not as though beaches or shopping malls are a rarity. Anyone anywhere in the U.S. can drive to a beach in a day and will probably pass dozens of shopping malls selling all the same junk along the way. Everything in Dubai is either part of a franchise, a direct copy, an imitation, or something gaudy. And its current population of 1.4 million puts it on par with Columbus, OH and Nashville, TN. So how this place is going to somehow explode to a 10-20 million city? How does that happen when citizenship is difficult if not impossible for non-natives? While educated people from the U.S. and Europe might go for working there for a few years, nearly all will return. Percentage-wise, India, Pakistan, China, etc. have far fewer highly educated people. Or is Dubai just going to keep treating the uneducated from those countries like dogs?


     
     
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Old 12-17-2007, 11:56 PM
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Imo, Dubai is a bubble. They have so many buildigns going up, but no one moving in. A large percentage of the city's population right now are these worker-slaves imported from other countries. I wouldn't be suprised if the UAE's economy took a serious hit from empty buildings and palm fonds with uninhabited homes. Uncontrolled growth is an economic nightmare. Thats what I see in Dubai. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.

But, one thing I'm not wrong about is Dubai's perception of what all these construction projects will do. We'ves seen it in Kuala Lumpur with Petronas, somewhat in Taipei with Taipei 101. These nations (or territories) build these "traditionally" inspired megascrapers hoping to attact attention and put themseleves on the map. Sorry, but it doesn't work. The general public looks for a day, and then doesn't care. Because honestly, it doesn't matter. Dubai doesn't have the city to support its facade of a skyline.

And then, its philosophy of anti-architecture...don't get me started. What a nightmare.


     
     
  #17  
Old 12-18-2007, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alliance View Post
Imo, Dubai is a bubble. They have so many buildigns going up, but no one moving in. A large percentage of the city's population right now are these worker-slaves imported from other countries. I wouldn't be suprised if the UAE's economy took a serious hit from empty buildings and palm fonds with uninhabited homes. Uncontrolled growth is an economic nightmare. Thats what I see in Dubai. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.

But, one thing I'm not wrong about is Dubai's perception of what all these construction projects will do. We'ves seen it in Kuala Lumpur with Petronas, somewhat in Taipei with Taipei 101. These nations (or territories) build these "traditionally" inspired megascrapers hoping to attact attention and put themseleves on the map. Sorry, but it doesn't work. The general public looks for a day, and then doesn't care. Because honestly, it doesn't matter. Dubai doesn't have the city to support its facade of a skyline.

And then, its philosophy of anti-architecture...don't get me started. What a nightmare.

Post of the year!!


     
     
  #18  
Old 12-18-2007, 05:02 AM
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Yep that was a classic, like a Jim Brown touch down run. Nolan Ryan no hitter, or a Magic Johnson no look pass... Pure legend.


     
     
  #19  
Old 12-18-2007, 05:31 AM
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I [sarcasm]love[/sarcasm] how people find it easier to over-simplify a foreign concept rather than accept the fact that it's happening. . .

. . . hmm. . . from what I've seen it's pretty easy for people from Europe, Asia, South America, Africa and Australia to accept a seemingly absurd concept like Las Vegas or Disneyland as a great idea, yet there are some pedestian architecture buffs that feel like they've inherited the right to whine and bitch about stuff they know nothing or next to nothing about. . . ESPECIALLY when it's something NOT happening in their back yard (eg. Chicago or Canada). . .

. . .


     
     
  #20  
Old 12-18-2007, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alliance View Post
Imo, Dubai is a bubble. They have so many buildigns going up, but no one moving in. A large percentage of the city's population right now are these worker-slaves imported from other countries. I wouldn't be suprised if the UAE's economy took a serious hit from empty buildings and palm fonds with uninhabited homes. Uncontrolled growth is an economic nightmare. Thats what I see in Dubai. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.

But, one thing I'm not wrong about is Dubai's perception of what all these construction projects will do. We'ves seen it in Kuala Lumpur with Petronas, somewhat in Taipei with Taipei 101. These nations (or territories) build these "traditionally" inspired megascrapers hoping to attact attention and put themseleves on the map. Sorry, but it doesn't work. The general public looks for a day, and then doesn't care. Because honestly, it doesn't matter. Dubai doesn't have the city to support its facade of a skyline.

And then, its philosophy of anti-architecture...don't get me started. What a nightmare.
Fuck yes!

While the public perception is usually tall = world city, there are so many cities with super talls now that Dubai isn't going to leave much of a mark. eventually Burj Dubai being the worlds tallest will have the same effect as the CN Tower for Toronto... It will become a recognized landmark, but other then that wont do a whole shit-lot for the city. need many landmarks, like NYC, before people come to your city just to see those.


     
     
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